OL - Who would you trade?

blueblood70

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The team needed defense. The same thing it needed the entire decade. So instead of defense we draft a RB in the first round and Jaylon in the 2nd round who we knew couldn’t play in 2016. Our defense got torched in the playoffs.

But the main point wasn’t what we did in 2016 draft. It was the mischaracterization of our 2015 running game whereas people think it was a complete failure. It was not.
its way to hypothetical we dont know if we would have got Dak after we changed pour strategy in the 1st and got JR and then still in their opinion grabbed another rb or players that change your thinking and they go get a jag like Lynch or conner etc and Romo gets hurt and who starting at qb? would it matter if we had JR at corner, its sure didnt witj Bortles in Jax..they had the exact scenario ans didnt work out, now they have neither.. its easy to use hindsight and try and redo a draft in one postion or two and not know how the rest of the chips fell.. Dak was our 23rd qb and had somehow we change dour strategy and romo and more go down and lynch or conner has to play vs Dak and Zeke, im wondering how that 2016 would have went?

you simply cant do that..for all we know we change fate get JR and he blows a knee in the pre season...its how this hindsight and hypotheticals work, you change few pieces and the rest also change..
 

Redball Express

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The amount of games played doesn’t matter. They were about as efficient as each other. We just kept on feeding the ball to Zeke, while we moved on from Randle.

Just something to ponder though about our running game in 2015 though. We tend to give reasons for why our top players aren’t as successful (Zeke and stacked boxes, sorry QB play, etc.) but for some reason people won’t give any slack to the 2015 running game. Instead use it as some sort of proof we had a failed philosophy. But consider the following:

DMC was 4th in total rush yards that year despite starting only 10 games.
The Cowboys were 9th best rushing team despite only being 18th in total attempts.
Cowboys had 5th best yards per carry average.

They accomplished those stats with horrible QB play, even from Romo who easily had his worst performance year but he only played 3.5 games due to injury. Then our QBs were Weeden, Cassel and Moore.

Dez was also missing and/or playing injured except for about the 1st quarter of the first game. Even before he broke his foot in the 2nd half of the first game, Dez was being treated for dehydration and had even missed most of that training camp due to injury.

That left TWill as the number 1 receiver. We traded for Butler and he got hurt in his first game so we were back to TWill as the number 1 receiver and Dez was ineffective when he returned from injury.

Our 2015 running game was excellent under those circumstances. We had zero threat of a passing game that year. It was clearly the strength of the team and then we used a premium pick in 2016 to get Elliott and improve upon that strength while continuing to ignore the weakness.
Damned bro..

that is a long memory you have there.

Yikes.

Yeah, I can not explain much of the Garrett years.

Like why we drafted TEs we said they would play in 2 TE sets but never never deployed it.

Or why we would draft Switzer as another slot receiver having Beasley on the roster, talk about playing both Switzer and Beasley to open up underneath routes for Dak..

and never play it, then trade Switzer the very next year.

Splain me that?

:confused:
 

Aviano90

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Damned bro..

that is a long memory you have there.

Yikes.

Yeah, I can not explain much of the Garrett years.

Like why we drafted TEs we said they would play in 2 TE sets but never never deployed it.

Or why we would draft Switzer as another slot receiver having Beasley on the roster, talk about playing both Switzer and Beasley to open up underneath routes for Dak..

and never play it, then trade Switzer the very next year.

Splain me that?

:confused:
No worries man. I remember it well because I got into many debates about our running game that year. People so desperately wanted to trash Randle and DMC because Murray was let go. People also claimed all year long that we did nothing but go 3 and out and didn’t give the defense time to rest but we had the highest average time of possession per possession in the league up until the final week of the season. At one point about 75% through the season we were averaging a whopping 3:21 per possession, which was much higher than in 2014, yet we were still in the midst of losing 11 games in a row. We were controlling the ball but not scoring often. Our average dropped late in the season because we started running plays much faster, especially in the time Moore started playing. We were no longer milking the play clock down to 1-2 seconds.
 

Aviano90

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its way to hypothetical we dont know if we would have got Dak after we changed pour strategy in the 1st and got JR and then still in their opinion grabbed another rb or players that change your thinking and they go get a jag like Lynch or conner etc and Romo gets hurt and who starting at qb? would it matter if we had JR at corner, its sure didnt witj Bortles in Jax..they had the exact scenario ans didnt work out, now they have neither.. its easy to use hindsight and try and redo a draft in one postion or two and not know how the rest of the chips fell.. Dak was our 23rd qb and had somehow we change dour strategy and romo and more go down and lynch or conner has to play vs Dak and Zeke, im wondering how that 2016 would have went?

you simply cant do that..for all we know we change fate get JR and he blows a knee in the pre season...its how this hindsight and hypotheticals work, you change few pieces and the rest also change..
I am not using hindsight or hypotheticals here. I am simply saying our 2015 running game was the strength of the team that year and we needed defense. We still have debates claiming Romo never had a defense as a reason he couldn’t win.

2015 didn’t show me we needed a premium running back. It showed me we needed a back up QB and still needed defense. Zeke was a luxury pick in my opinion based upon how effective our running game was in 2015 considering the circumstances.

Now, with hindsight of Romo and DMC getting hurt, Zeke turned out to be the correct pick. It helped Dak out tremendously, but we didn’t know that when we drafted. And defense still turned out to be the Achilles heel in the playoffs yet again.
 

Redball Express

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We have some big contracts among the OL, but crazy thing is that they're all good deals.

-Tyron makes $12M in a market where mediocre LTs like DJ Humphries make $15M.

-La'El gets paid $10M, while Philly recently re-upped Lane Johnson for $17M. I'd say that La'El is like 90% of the player that Johnson and plays for 60% of the salary.

-Martin is paid like the best guard in football because he is the best guard in football.

-Frederick's the only guy who didn't play up to his contract last year, but that's because of a one-in-a-million illness rather than injury or misevaluation of talent. When he's healthy, he's been worth the paycheck too.

People say we spend too much cap on the OL, but as long as that's money's that well-spent, I say go for it. You can definitely sign a lot worse deals than what we have there.
All good points.

And yes, Stephen has done a good job with the OL contracts.

Which probably why he maybe having trouble with Dak and Amari's deals.

Stephen's reputation proceeds him.

:thumbup:
 

USArmyVet

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Considering financial implications and assuming that a trade came along that you considered fair,
A) Would you consider trading one of our three highly paid linemen?
B) If so, which one would you be most likely to trade?

For me, they are all good players and certainly there is emotional attachment. However, to be a good GM you gotta explore all options. So my answer would be yes.

I would be most likely to trade Zack or Travis simply because i think i can win without perennial pro bowlers in these positions and thus I can lower my % paid for the position group. I say this even though i am more worried about Tyron from a health \ consistency standpoint.

Ultimately i would probably lean toward trading Zack as I can probably get more for him & G not as critical for communication as C.


Based on injuries and greatest cap savings for 2020 and beyond, Tyron Smith.
 

buybuydandavis

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I would be most likely to trade Zack or Travis simply because i think i can win without perennial pro bowlers in these positions and thus I can lower my % paid for the position group. I say this even though i am more worried about Tyron from a health \ consistency standpoint.

Ultimately i would probably lean toward trading Zack as I can probably get more for him & G not as critical for communication as C.

Zack is marching toward the HOF. I have reservations about spending so much at G, but if you're going to do it, you do it for a HOF quality player. Always Pro Bowl, 4/6 All Pro, last two seasons All Pro.

Having said that, I would trade anyone. Just depends on what we're supposedly getting in return. But G is a not a sexy position, and is unlikely to get a stupid offer in return.

C is not sexy for most, and Fredbeard is coming off a down season. Wrong time to sell him, and *I* find C sexy, and a cornerstone position. I'd keep him.

Maybe somebody gets sold on Tyron at LT. Another potential splash player for a team willing to overlook the 2017-18 back issues.

I'm more interested in trading other guys.

Dak, Zeke, DLaw, Cooper, all might get stupid offers and take current/impending cap hits off our hands.

Jaylon looks broken to me. The team knows more about his health, but from what I see I'd dump him and his impending 8mil option bonus to any taker.

Zeke has a 13mil option bonus coming. I'd dump him to any taker too, though I bet we'd get something for him. Good management juju, IMO. Get squeezed by a player wanting out of his contract early, wave him goodbye at the earliest opportunity. With Pollard and a draft coming up, the time is now.

We've already eaten a big signing bonus for DLaw, so probably not him. Bad contract, but he's healthy and playing well.
 

Skillit

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Understand. Just spitballing scenario's. Only have a limited number of options that would free up significant cap & return some value.

tough position for sure. I loved our O line.....until I didn’t. I still think the unit is better than avg, but that’s it.

Someone made the great point that the highest paid QB/RB and WR shouldn’t need the highest paid OL.

That why I’ve always been pro line vs paying (over paying skill position players)

You can have the top 2-3 OL guys on one line for the same as 1 marquee QB....and platoon cheap RBs. It also send the message that the strength of the team is not ‘stars’....it’s the guys who do the real work.

Unless you have the unquestioned answer at QB.....(I like Dak, but I don’t think he has that clout yet.) I think being the 2016 cowboys / 2019 9ers is the way to do it.
 

Tussinman

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We have some big contracts among the OL, but crazy thing is that they're all good deals.

-Tyron makes $12M in a market where mediocre LTs like DJ Humphries make $15M.

-La'El gets paid $10M, while Philly recently re-upped Lane Johnson for $17M. I'd say that La'El is like 90% of the player that Johnson and plays for 60% of the salary.

-Martin is paid like the best guard in football because he is the best guard in football.

-Frederick's the only guy who didn't play up to his contract last year, but that's because of a one-in-a-million illness rather than injury or misevaluation of talent. When he's healthy, he's been worth the paycheck too.

People say we spend too much cap on the OL, but as long as that's money's that well-spent, I say go for it. You can definitely sign a lot worse deals than what we have there.
Agreed. Tyron Smith and Zack Martin are making 1st team all-decade when they announce the roster this summer, amazing players.

Crazy thing about Frederick was since his deal was done 4 off-seasons ago he's only the 10th highest paid center in the league in terms of average per year.
 

Chuck 54

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Considering financial implications and assuming that a trade came along that you considered fair,
A) Would you consider trading one of our three highly paid linemen?
B) If so, which one would you be most likely to trade?

For me, they are all good players and certainly there is emotional attachment. However, to be a good GM you gotta explore all options. So my answer would be yes.

I would be most likely to trade Zack or Travis simply because i think i can win without perennial pro bowlers in these positions and thus I can lower my % paid for the position group. I say this even though i am more worried about Tyron from a health \ consistency standpoint.

Ultimately i would probably lean toward trading Zack as I can probably get more for him & G not as critical for communication as C.
It makes no sense to trade any of our young or marginal backups. The only players worth trading on the OL are the big money guys to replace with less expensive talent. We need to trade a guy when we can replace him with a quality, developing player or when they start to slide lower than their salary.
 
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Tussinman

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or when they start to slide lower than their salary.
Alot of fans really under-rate this.

You can't just go sign someone off the street of Tyron, Frederick, and Martins level. You do not dump them unless there playing below there salary level.

If there salaries are high but there playing to that level then GOOD. Getting players of that caliber is basically a crapshoot, don't throw them off the street then go pay some bum like Nate Solder 15 million dollars (that's how you create a **** team)
 

speedkilz88

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The team just got a legit OL coach that's been missing since Callahan left. Finally going to see them dominate again in the run game.
 

blueblood70

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I am not using hindsight or hypotheticals here. I am simply saying our 2015 running game was the strength of the team that year and we needed defense. We still have debates claiming Romo never had a defense as a reason he couldn’t win.

2015 didn’t show me we needed a premium running back. It showed me we needed a back up QB and still needed defense. Zeke was a luxury pick in my opinion based upon how effective our running game was in 2015 considering the circumstances.

Now, with hindsight of Romo and DMC getting hurt, Zeke turned out to be the correct pick. It helped Dak out tremendously, but we didn’t know that when we drafted. And defense still turned out to be the Achilles heel in the playoffs yet again.
again we dont know what would have happened in 16 with the same Rbs seriously they get older, the line wasn't the same, players get hurt, and again changing what you do early in the draft changes what you do late.. The rams had a great run game in 2018 what happened fat slow cj left and Gurleys knee happened..

you simply cant go back and say hey 2015 run game was solid and we shouldnt have done this or that.. I explained myself well and its been along off season..stop living in the past ifs and butts never work..
 

blueblood70

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Agreed. Tyron Smith and Zack Martin are making 1st team all-decade when they announce the roster this summer, amazing players.

Crazy thing about Frederick was since his deal was done 4 off-seasons ago he's only the 10th highest paid center in the league in terms of average per year.
yup TFRED no greed millions are millions , hes unselfish and a great person and player.. however hes the most attractive and easiest moved OL in this hypothetical debate.. we plug in looney and get more with the picks we get for him..
 

Aviano90

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again we dont know what would have happened in 16 with the same Rbs seriously they get older, the line wasn't the same, players get hurt, and again changing what you do early in the draft changes what you do late.. The rams had a great run game in 2018 what happened fat slow cj left and Gurleys knee happened..

you simply cant go back and say hey 2015 run game was solid and we shouldnt have done this or that.. I explained myself well and its been along off season..stop living in the past ifs and butts never work..
You're correct. We don't know what would have happened in 2016 with the same RBs. And I'm not "living the past with ifs and butts". Someone mentioned the 2015 running game being a mess because Murray was let go and I dispute that notion. Apparently that offends you in some way and you felt the need to jump in because the conversation bothered you. It didn't bother me or RedBall though.
 

McKDaddy

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Thanks to all who offered their thoughts in this hypothetical scenario.
 

jnday

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Considering financial implications and assuming that a trade came along that you considered fair,
A) Would you consider trading one of our three highly paid linemen?
B) If so, which one would you be most likely to trade?

For me, they are all good players and certainly there is emotional attachment. However, to be a good GM you gotta explore all options. So my answer would be yes.

I would be most likely to trade Zack or Travis simply because i think i can win without perennial pro bowlers in these positions and thus I can lower my % paid for the position group. I say this even though i am more worried about Tyron from a health \ consistency standpoint.

Ultimately i would probably lean toward trading Zack as I can probably get more for him & G not as critical for communication as C.
Frederick needs to stay in Dallas. You must not remember the Phil Costa days.
 
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