Quinn vs Byron Jones

Whyjerry · Feb 19, 2020

tm1119 said:
Obviously as a fan I have no real clue about Quinn’s makeup...but it is fair to point out that his #’s significantly dipped and was subsequently traded after his 1st big contract. Could easily be a coincidence and injuries did play a part, but it’s not something that can be ignored in my opinion. Last year was his 1st 9+ sack season since 2014 and it happens to be (likely) his last shot at a good pay day coming up.

But again, I don’t know...Quinn could be an amazing teammate with a great work ethic.

Byron is a very good cover CB but the great ones that create TO’s deserve the big paydays. But how much did Rod’s Stone Age system play into the lack of TO’s?

Hard choice either way

Quinn was poorly cast as an OLB in a 3-4. His best days are when he played DE in a 4-3. He still can’t help as a run defender.

garyo1954 · Feb 19, 2020

Whyjerry said:
One guy can cover but has zero feel for the game and makes little impact. The other is a nice edge rusher that gets mauled in the running game.

How about neither?

If I had to choose I would take the pass rusher. Probably cheaper. Definitely a shorter contract. I will always choose the pass rusher all things equal.

I agree. Pressure will help your secondary too.

JoeKing · Feb 19, 2020

Killerinstinct said:
Assuming you can re-sign one, which do you choose?

Please give your reasons.

They play different positions. They will never be competing for a spot on the roster. I don't have to assume we can sign one, we can sign both. Why discuss hypothetical situations when we have real issues to talk about that is even more interesting?

mattjames2010 · Feb 19, 2020

nyc-cowboy said:
Debatable how valuable that is - sure you can shut down the #2 WR, but what good is that if the #1 WR is abusing Chido.

...it's not debatable. Just like it wasn't debatable when Sherman didn't follow WRs. You are still shutting down a part of the field, which means you can send extra help elsewhere.

Having a DB on Jones level is extremely valuable, it's much more valuable than Quinn who is not only a one trick pony, but has a history of injuries slowing him down along with being 30. CB might just be the toughest position to find right now, the learning curve from college to NFL is tough and even then, very few corners stay consistent. Jones has been top 10-20 two years in a row. You have to sign him, you can replace a Quinn and a Cooper far easier.

starfan1 · Feb 19, 2020

Id rather keep Quinn. Its smarter to keep Jones.

quickccc · Feb 19, 2020

Whyjerry said:
Lewis is the best CB on the team. It really isn’t close.

Lol... no hes not :muttley:

TwistedL0g1k · Feb 19, 2020

Jones. If he walks, CB becomes an instant area of need, and you don't want to plug in a rookie at that position.

Quinn was a good signing last season though, and a good player for Dallas.

Whyjerry · Feb 19, 2020

quickccc said:
Lol... no hes not

He is. Please Lord don’t say it’s Chido.

cowboyec · Feb 19, 2020

ondaedg said:
Byron will never be an INT guy due to his coverage technique. He sacrifices picks so he can play the receiver's movements with his back to the ball.

i'd still rather have him than not.

quickccc · Feb 19, 2020

Whyjerry said:
He is. Please Lord don’t say it’s Chido.

- Byron is not gone... yet.
- Chido is still a starter over Jordan.
-and Jordan got exposed, even as a nickel/slot guy. and while he (easily) has the best INT hands and ball hawkskills, but he is more a give some/take some CB who cannot handle speed on the outside, if had to start there,..imo. .

ondaedg · Feb 19, 2020

cowboyec said:
i'd still rather have him than not.

At the right price I agree. But in the last 10 years no team has had fewer INTs than us so if we lose Byron my hope is we replace him with someone who can get us 4-6 picks a year.

Whyjerry · Feb 19, 2020

quickccc said:
- Byron is not gone... yet.
- Chido is still a starter over Jordan.
-and Jordan got exposed, even as a nickel/slot guy. and while he (easily) has the best INT hands and ball hawkskills, but he is more a give some/take some CB who cannot handle speed on the outside, if had to start there,..imo. .

You are usually a good poster but dead wrong on these CBs in my opinion. Lewis plays with edge. He has plenty of speed and good hips that allow him to make plays on the ball. He is also by far the best tackler. Jones has zero ball skills and Chido plays like a guy that doesn’t care. He also came into the league as a good tackler but Rod and Company did what they do and turned Chido into a contact avoiding snob.

JIMMYBUFFETT · Feb 19, 2020

ondaedg said:
Byron will never be an INT guy due to his coverage technique. He sacrifices picks so he can play the receiver's movements with his back to the ball.

Correct, it's called playing out of phase and it's what Dallas teaches/taught their DBs to play and a big reason Dallas had a lack of turnovers. Playing out of phase helps prevent big plays and YAC which was part of the bend but don't break mentality of the Cowboys defense. Both Jones and Awuzie are playing the exact coverage schemes technique that they were asked throughout the season. Playing in phase coverage would put the DBs hands on the receiver and have him leaning the receiver while looking back for the ball. Can Jones/Awuzie play in phase? I don't know but a coaching change could do amazing things for both guys.

tyke1doe · Feb 19, 2020

Byron Jones. Quinn faltered down the stretch and is a liability in the run game.

cowboy_ron · Feb 19, 2020

Dak is all we need..........overpay the man!

unionjack8 · Feb 19, 2020

Killerinstinct said:
Assuming you can re-sign one, which do you choose?

Please give your reasons.

Quinn.
Cheaper.
Without pressure NOBODY can cover

garyo1954 · Feb 19, 2020

PFF projections has Byron going to the Raiders.....

9. CB Byron Jones – Las Vegas Raiders
Projected contract: 5 years, $16 million per year ($50.5 million guaranteed)
In 2018, the Raiders ranked dead last in EPA per pass allowed. In 2019, the Raiders ranked dead last in EPA per pass allowed. If I had to guess what Jon Gruden says to that, it’s “something’s gotta give, man.” The good news is, they have money in the bank to pay for one of the top defensive backs hitting the open market — and there isn’t a cornerback better in this free agency pool than Byron Jones. After bouncing around at various alignments in the secondary for three years, Jones found his home at outside corner in 2018 and has since been one of the five best in the NFL. In that role, he’s been a shutdown corner in press-man coverage — he allowed just 0.39 yards per coverage snap on those reps in 2019, the second-lowest figure at the position and over eight-tenths of a yard lower than the average. Daryl Worley was dead last in that stat, in case you were wondering.

Alexander · Feb 19, 2020

Dumb question.

The contracts for both are entirely different due to age.

nyc-cowboy · Feb 19, 2020

mattjames2010 said:
...it's not debatable. Just like it wasn't debatable when Sherman didn't follow WRs. You are still shutting down a part of the field, which means you can send extra help elsewhere.

Having a DB on Jones level is extremely valuable, it's much more valuable than Quinn who is not only a one trick pony, but has a history of injuries slowing him down along with being 30. CB might just be the toughest position to find right now, the learning curve from college to NFL is tough and even then, very few corners stay consistent. Jones has been top 10-20 two years in a row. You have to sign him, you can replace a Quinn and a Cooper far easier.

Different situations - Boys are about to pay big money for Dak and Cooper - rather not pay Jones top dollar to cover #2 WRs, rather spend that money on a DT.

As for Quinn....not a big fan.

ondaedg · Feb 20, 2020

JIMMYBUFFETT said:
Correct, it's called playing out of phase and it's what Dallas teaches/taught their DBs to play and a big reason Dallas had a lack of turnovers. Playing out of phase helps prevent big plays and YAC which was part of the bend but don't break mentality of the Cowboys defense. Both Jones and Awuzie are playing the exact coverage schemes technique that they were asked throughout the season. Playing in phase coverage would put the DBs hands on the receiver and have him leaning the receiver while looking back for the ball. Can Jones/Awuzie play in phase? I don't know but a coaching change could do amazing things for both guys.

Thank you for the specific football description of their coverage. I knew it was a taught technique but didn't know what it was called in coaching terminology.

Quinn vs Byron Jones

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What's it going to be then, eh?

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