Cowboys blew their best window to win with Sensational Rookies

Loso86 · Feb 19, 2020

Diehardblues said:
We all knew while under their Rookie contracts was the best window to win with Dak and Zeke.

As we’ve discussed in other threads once you pay your QB it lessens the opportunity to win a championship as best chance is under their Rookie contract because of the ability to surround them with a stronger supporting cast.

If you strongly believe in this then I don’t see the argument in wanting to sign Dak to a contract that’s going to lessen our chances to win a championship.

We should be looking for the next best Rookie QB we can land so we can continue providing the type of supporting cast we’ve had while possibly attempting to upgrade some of its weaknesses.

And if we miss on our next Rookie QB then it will place us in a higher draft slot the next time.

It’s not like we are leaving championships behind us. We’ve missed the playoffs 2 of the last 3 seasons. I’m not sure the attachment considering how paying him will lessen our chances moving forward. I’m only left with some kind of emotional attachment not what’s best for Cowboys Football.

How often are you going to find that Rookie QB that's going to put you over the top without mortgaging the future

Idgit · Feb 19, 2020

2016 was the best chance they had with the rookies. Turns out, you need to be able to stop the other teams’ QBs, too.

Buzzbait · Feb 20, 2020

Diehardblues said:
The best aspect of this new coaching hire is we can no longer use our coaching staff as a scapegoat or excuse.

We now will have to solely blame our talent and lack Therof.

Why, so you can say "SEE! It was the talent....NOT GARRETT! We should've kept Garrett!" ? :laugh:

Sorry Greg, no matter what happens, Garrett was bad news and needed to go. Period. It was long overdue.

Buzzbait · Feb 20, 2020

Reid1boys said:
How bout the players BLEW it.

If the Players are blowing it and the HC doesn't do anything to fix it, that's on the HC. That's why he's called HC, he's getting paid to take responsibility. If the players are not playing up to their ability, that's on the coach.

ghst187 · Feb 20, 2020

blueblood70 said:
yes yes it was all the Coaches fault I mean he dropped all the passes, blew all the coverages, missed all the blocks, missed all the tackles, ran all the wrong routes, missed the fgs, fumbled, threw Ints, couldn't get sacks, missed assignments, got punt blocked, and threw inaccurate balls..

right the players had nothing to do with it..

phack that lots of players had 80% to do with those early out seasons.. and one ref or two lol but hey lets make excuses for the bad execution's and throw the coaches under the bus..we all watched the games the coaches can only coach so much but when your players make the 3 mistakes that can lose a game , not sure how to go there..

all the way back to the Romo FG botch, Craytons bad game, the game where murray fumbled, Baily misses TWO Fgs, and the d couldn't hold for 1:37 to win a game, and players who couldn't tackle a running back etc etc

sure better coaching maybe helps a little in these games maybe win a game or two more in the season but really the players themselves WASTED the windows..

but wouldn’t you say it’s the coach’s job to ensure the players are in position to win, prepared, disciplined, and ready to execute?
When a team runs the ball down your throat and you refuse to change anything....
When your backup LT is a turnstile to a scrub and yet you don’t give him any help?
When your entire philosophy is built on having your person line up and overpower the guy across from him while the opponent is taking advantage of mismatches they have and generally outscheming and out coaching your team that’s in the coaching staff. If different non-star players can’t execute, aren’t disciplined, or out of position regularly that’s an obvious coaching deficiency.
Look around the league and see what other coaches have done with similar or less talent...it was a glaring problem for us

Diehardblues · Feb 20, 2020

Buzzbait said:
If the Players are blowing it and the HC doesn't do anything to fix it, that's on the HC. That's why he's called HC, he's getting paid to take responsibility. If the players are not playing up to their ability, that's on the coach.

Maybe the players are playing up to their ability and it’s not enough. Or the opposition is simply better. The talent could also be over hyped. We’re fixing to find out. I can’t wait

JW82 · Feb 20, 2020

It's true. But they wanted the coach in training to win, no matter how obvious it was he never would.

Diehardblues · Feb 20, 2020

Loso86 said:
How often are you going to find that Rookie QB that's going to put you over the top without mortgaging the future

That’s the point though. You don’t have to mortgage the future on any Rookie contract.

Scotman · Feb 20, 2020

Diehardblues said:
I’ve actually argued in favor of retaining Elite QB’s but there’s strong evidence that once we pay them chances of going to a Super Bowl drastically decreases.

And why I’m beginning to believe unless you’ve won a championship while on their Rookie contract( which even that is arguable) then there’s little evidence to support your chances increase after paying them. And that even applies to HOF caliber QB’s.

This QB contract issue is a huge detriment to maintaining a championship caliber team in Salary Cap era. It’s basically a Stamp of Doom to win a championship once you pay your QB despite how logical it appears and keeps you in contention.

I've read the stuff you've posted here in that regard. Had I not seen the statistics you've posted, I would have KNOWN that you were wrong.

My argument against Dak getting the big payday is that I truly don't think it's in his best financial interested. Forget about his value, or perceived value, or market price. Let's say he signs for 20 instead of 35. 15 million dollar a year difference. If I were his agent, I'd recommend he take the lower rate with the agreement that the Cowboy's front office and Dak go on the world speaking tour touting his team-first attitude. There's NO WAY that he doesn't make that money up and a lot more in sponsorships. Additionally, his career has an incredible chance of being a lot better because the team around him could be more competitive. Not to mention...20 million a year is generational wealth in its own right.

cml750 · Feb 20, 2020

The theme of this thread is actually a good reason to use the franchise tag on Dak so McCarthy can "try it before he buys it". As for Zeke, personally I think it was a huge mistake to draft him so high in the first place and yet another mistake to pay him what they did.

atlantacowboy · Feb 20, 2020

America's Cowboy said:
Tony Pollard proved how it was a mistake not accepting the 5th year rookie option on Zeke. Then paying Zeke $15 million per year was crazy. That was mistake #1.

Paying D-Law as the highest paid 4-3 DE in the league was mistake #2.

You always pay your franchise QB. Happened that way with Troy and Romo. No different here with Dak. You have to pay him since he's your franchise QB who has proven himself.

1. We never got the opportunity to "accept" a 5th year option on Zeke since he held out after year 3. We got Zeke on a cheap rookie deal for 3 seasons. Thats it.

2. Dak hasn't proven himself at all. He's missed the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years and did not lead a single come from behind win last year. What you are looking at are a bunch of garbage time numbers. Dak played his best ball when the team was down 3 scores and playing against prevent defenses. When the games mattered or against good teams, he wasn't competitive. You can't keep harkening back to 2016 when he was a rookie Qb breaking records.

atlantacowboy · Feb 20, 2020

rnr_honeybadger said:
The Salary Cap has nothing to do with this. Teams that have handed out these ridiculous contracts to one position are the ones responsible for this mess.

It absolutely has everything to do with it. Without a cap, you can pay your QB whatever without it effecting how much you have to spend on other positions.

America's Cowboy · Feb 20, 2020

atlantacowboy said:
1. We never got the opportunity to "accept" a 5th year option on Zeke since he held out after year 3. We got Zeke on a cheap rookie deal for 3 seasons. Thats it.

2. Dak hasn't proven himself at all. He's missed the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years and did not lead a single come from behind win last year. What you are looking at are a bunch of garbage time numbers. Dak played his best ball when the team was down 3 scores and playing against prevent defenses. When the games mattered or against good teams, he wasn't competitive. You can't keep harkening back to 2016 when he was a rookie Qb breaking records.

Foolish talk. Funny how you left out year 2016 since it would destroy your "last 3 seasons" dumb argument. Btw, Dak did lead several games last year to wins when trailing from behind at one time (even if during the 2nd quarter). Do some research before chirping the Dakahaters false talking points. And no, it's not considered garbage yards when most of those passing yards are accumulated during the 2and and 3rd quarters.

atlantacowboy · Feb 20, 2020

America's Cowboy said:
Foolish talk. Funny how you left out year 2016 since it would destroy your "last 3 seasons" dumb argument. Btw, Dak did lead several games last year to wins when trailing from behind at one time (even if during the 2nd quarter). Do some research before chirping the Dakahaters false talking points. And no, it's not considered garbage yards when most of those passing yards are accumulated during the 2and and 3rd quarters.

2016 is relevant ? :facepalm:

Any chance you can find another pet cat? The overwhelming majority of Dak's yards came against bad teams or when the Cowboys were down so far they had no choice but to throw. Thats just a fact.

Aviano90 · Feb 20, 2020

atlantacowboy said:
1. We never got the opportunity to "accept" a 5th year option on Zeke since he held out after year 3. We got Zeke on a cheap rookie deal for 3 seasons. Thats it.

2. Dak hasn't proven himself at all. He's missed the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years and did not lead a single come from behind win last year. What you are looking at are a bunch of garbage time numbers. Dak played his best ball when the team was down 3 scores and playing against prevent defenses. When the games mattered or against good teams, he wasn't competitive. You can't keep harkening back to 2016 when he was a rookie Qb breaking records.

Zeke wasn't a cheap rookie deal. His rookie deal was 4 year $24.9 million dollars, which made him a well paid running back. Had he been a QB making that money, it would have been a cheap deal. I would agree he was worth more than his rookie deal, but he still wasn't cheap for his position.

atlantacowboy · Feb 20, 2020

Aviano90 said:
Zeke wasn't a cheap rookie deal. His rookie deal was 4 year $24.9 million dollars, which made him a well paid running back. Had he been a QB making that money, it would have been a cheap deal. I would agree he was worth more than his rookie deal, but he still wasn't cheap for his position.

I'm not defending the selection of Zeke at #4 overall but that was a cheap contract compared to what he costs now.

America's Cowboy · Feb 20, 2020

atlantacowboy said:
2016 is relevant ? Any chance you can find another pet cat? The overwhelming majority of Dak's yards came against bad teams or when the Cowboys were down so far they had no choice but to throw. Thats just a fact.

And why were they down so many times? Hmm, where was the $15 million dollar man and his running attack? Isn't that why Jerry caved in and made him the highest paid RB in NFL history last year? I thought this team supposedly runs through Zeke, not Dak, and how Dak doesn't have the potential to pass for 4K yards, much less get within less than 100 yards of reaching 5K (since he was held back during the 4th quarter of the Week 17 game against the Commanders with a 3 score lead)??? Ooooh, let me guess, those were just "garbage yards", eh? :facepalm:

HowardC · Feb 20, 2020

Diehardblues said:
Wouldn’t we blame Jerry for retaining Garrett too long?

There is enough blame for both of them.

atlantacowboy · Feb 20, 2020

America's Cowboy said:
And why were they down so many times? Hmm, where was the $15 million dollar man and his running attack? Isn't that why Jerry caved in and made him the highest paid RB in NFL history last year? I thought this team supposedly runs through Zeke, not Dak, and how Dak doesn't have the potential to pass for 4K yards, much less get within less than 100 yards of reaching 5K (since he was held back during the 4th quarter of the Week 17 game against the Commanders with a 3 score lead)??? Ooooh, let me guess, those were just "garbage yards", eh?

Do you watch football games or just red the stat page?

Aviano90 · Feb 20, 2020

atlantacowboy said:
I'm not defending the selection of Zeke at #4 overall but that was a cheap contract compared to what he costs now.

I get it, but drafting a RB that high sort of negates a lot of the savings a rookie deal typically provides relative to other positions on the field. For example, Wentz got a 4 year $26.7 million rookie contract ($6.67 mil/year). His new contract pays him 4 year $128 million ($32 million/year). So his rookie deal he was only making 20.8% of what he is making now.

Compare that to Zeke. He made an average of $6.2 mil/year on his rookie deal and is increasing to $15 mil/year. He got paid 41.5% of his current value as a rookie. That's double the worth of a QB drafted just ahead of him.

Cowboys blew their best window to win with Sensational Rookies

Well-Known Member

Fattening up

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

JJ21

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Go Seahawks!!!

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Romo was elite

Well-Known Member

Go Seahawks!!!