Quinn vs Byron Jones

McKDaddy

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,224
Reaction score
8,425
FWIW - PFF says you retain Byron over Quinn and its not even close in their eyes. They also went on to say that almost all edge rushers are overrated based on their # of sacks. So many other factors go into it that you need to look deeper at their win rates per rush, etc..

They also made a point that i hadn't fully thought about. They argued that the Patriots have viewed coverage as more important than rush specialists for several years which is why they have let so many walk. They feel they can churn the position & coach\scheme pass rush production without paying a premium.
 

McKDaddy

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,224
Reaction score
8,425
You are usually a good poster but dead wrong on these CBs in my opinion. Lewis plays with edge. He has plenty of speed and good hips that allow him to make plays on the ball. He is also by far the best tackler. Jones has zero ball skills and Chido plays like a guy that doesn’t care. He also came into the league as a good tackler but Rod and Company did what they do and turned Chido into a contact avoiding snob.
Gotta go against ya on this one. I agree that Lewis plays with an edge & is a quality player. However, Byron deserves the respect he has earned. He has been our best by a significant margin.
 

CATCH17

1st Round Pick
Messages
66,924
Reaction score
84,287
FWIW - PFF says you retain Byron over Quinn and its not even close in their eyes. They also went on to say that almost all edge rushers are overrated based on their # of sacks. So many other factors go into it that you need to look deeper at their win rates per rush, etc..

They also made a point that i hadn't fully thought about. They argued that the Patriots have viewed coverage as more important than rush specialists for several years which is why they have let so many walk. They feel they can churn the position & coach\scheme pass rush production without paying a premium.

The problem with comparing us to the Patriots is most coaches can't confuse QB's like Bill Belichick can so the better option for most coaches is to just give the QB less time to throw.
 

Doomsday101

Well-Known Member
Messages
107,762
Reaction score
39,034
I go with Quinn, the price tag will be cheaper than Jones will be getting and frankly I think most takeaways come by way of pressure on QB and plays made in the backfield. Jones is a very good cover man but he does not tend to force take aways. I would love to keep them both but highly doubt it
 

quickccc

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,062
Reaction score
13,981
You are usually a good poster but dead wrong on these CBs in my opinion. Lewis plays with edge. He has plenty of speed and good hips that allow him to make plays on the ball. He is also by far the best tackler. Jones has zero ball skills and Chido plays like a guy that doesn’t care. He also came into the league as a good tackler but Rod and Company did what they do and turned Chido into a contact avoiding snob.
.
I got a hold of this Jordan Lewis fanfare quite awhile back. I think it comes between a frustration from our non-turnover DBs ... to rooting for an supposedly undersized 'underdog " that
has the INT skills needed for our DB unit.
But I think these fans also tend to overrate Jordan, and Lewis is not a fast guy at the NFL, and given the reports I was getting in camp, as Lewis was routinely being beaten by speed guys,
and he had that issue when he shortly had a starting job his rookie year, luckily the balls were overthrown by he was easily beaten by speedsters Marquis Goodwin (niners)
and John Brown (Arizona) although the more confirms that he is much suited to inside nickel than a larger outside range.

the only thing that I can say with Jordan is he has a clear advantage is his INT hands and ball hawk skills over any of the DBs we have. but you can't be mixing an occasional turnover
(ala Saints INT in '18 ) plays with giving up plays too, and it wasn't just Beasley game but struggling games such Golden Tate - Detroit in 2017,
and even such as he was getting beat vs the last Skins too.

I'm not fond of Anthony Brown, as I hate how he (like Chido), simply do not believe in turning their heads to make plays on the ball, but I do have to wonder if Richard just graded out
pure coverage in camp and games, and saw Lewis still wasn't up to par.

I have my doubts that Jones will be here once FA period starts ,.. but while Byron is still here, Jordan is not in Byron league as a pure player- even despite Byron's lack of ball hawk INT skills,
Jordan is not going to provide shadow coverage vs quality WRs, the way Byron is going to,
and Jordan is limited to slot corner - whereas Jones can play both outside and slot.

To say Jordan is the best CB on this team ..with Byron still here,.. lets me how far fetched this Jordan fan club is.
 

mattjames2010

Well-Known Member
Messages
21,474
Reaction score
20,154
Different situations - Boys are about to pay big money for Dak and Cooper - rather not pay Jones top dollar to cover #2 WRs, rather spend that money on a DT.

As for Quinn....not a big fan.

He’a not just covering #2 WRs, This isn’t 1980s football, #1 WRs are all over the field

And Cooper is a WR, an inconsistent one. This is one of the deepest WR draft classes in NFL history. He’s expendable. We have safety to worry about in this draft.

Pay Jones and get a stud safety.
 

Hennessy_King

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,623
Reaction score
25,418
I go with Quinn. He will cost less money and has already made more impact on the defense than Byron has in 5 years. The only thing that worries me about Quinn is he was terrible against the run.
 

quickccc

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,062
Reaction score
13,981
You are usually a good poster but dead wrong on these CBs in my opinion. Lewis plays with edge. He has plenty of speed and good hips that allow him to make plays on the ball.
He is also by far the best tackler. Jones has zero ball skills and Chido plays like a guy that doesn’t care.
He also came into the league as a good tackler but Rod and Company did what they do and turned Chido into a contact avoiding snob.

I tend to wonder if Richard's press coverage scheme was suited for Chido's skill set. Some CBs are just more comfortable when they can play off line and with a cushion in front of them to
be able to have the spacing to go ' forward " and drive on the ball, ..vs man up press at the line, having to turn, shadow and run with WRs stride for stride downfield.

what's unfortunate is Chido actually does well in stride for stride with WRs, (the deep speed that Jordan doesn't have on outside ) but yet when he gets in the biggest trouble is NOT positioning himself
properly to adjust to making the play on the ball in the air.

And he either gets beaten for a big play ..or he's called for a yellow flag- illegal hands or pass interference. Poor positioning and ball location.
And if some find his college tape, he was doing the same at Colorado. in addition to only having 3 career INTs.

It's gonna be really interesting how new the defensive coaches Mike Nolan and Al Harris (CB) re-coaches and schemes for him going forward.
 

quickccc

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,062
Reaction score
13,981
Correct, it's called playing out of phase and it's what Dallas teaches/taught their DBs to play and a big reason Dallas had a lack of turnovers. Playing out of phase helps prevent big plays and YAC which was part of the bend but don't break mentality of the Cowboys defense. Both Jones and Awuzie are playing the exact coverage schemes technique that they were asked throughout the season. Playing in phase coverage would put the DBs hands on the receiver and have him leaning the receiver while looking back for the ball. Can Jones/Awuzie play in phase? I don't know but a coaching change could do amazing things for both guys.

Maybe just me, but oddly enough, I think Awuzie can play off the line and in zone and that may be a better scheme for him vs press coverage at the line and run downfield
but I still have doubts that Byron can play off the line and in zone, he has to be in press coverage position.

Jones did not make INT turnovers as a Free Safety either. Only two career INTs came off Hail Mary pick and a Irving tipped pick for a run back INT vs Skins.
He seems to always play the safety position up close as if he was a CB trying to play safety.

Just not comfortable off the line or in space. and never one to anticipate and drive on the thrown ball in flight for an INT.
His only goal is to knock the ball to the ground.
He just doesn't have the awareness, hands or ball instincts to make those kind of plays, regardless of what position he is playing.
 

Whyjerry

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,949
Reaction score
24,814
Gotta go against ya on this one. I agree that Lewis plays with an edge & is a quality player. However, Byron deserves the respect he has earned. He has been our best by a significant margin.

Yet, they will likely not sign him.

Don't get me wrong on Jones. Garrett and Co. tried to ruin him by making him a S. As a CB he is/was a good player. Not great. Good (and replaceable).
 

Whyjerry

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,949
Reaction score
24,814
I tend to wonder if Richard's press coverage scheme was suited for Chido's skill set. Some CBs are just more comfortable when they can play off line and with a cushion in front of them to
be able to have the spacing to go ' forward " and drive on the ball, ..vs man up press at the line, having to turn, shadow and run with WRs stride for stride downfield.

what's unfortunate is Chido actually does well in stride for stride with WRs, (the deep speed that Jordan doesn't have on outside ) but yet when he gets in the biggest trouble is NOT positioning himself
properly to adjust to making the play on the ball in the air.

And he either gets beaten for a big play ..or he's called for a yellow flag- illegal hands or pass interference. Poor positioning and ball location.
And if some find his college tape, he was doing the same at Colorado. in addition to only having 3 career INTs.

It's gonna be really interesting how new the defensive coaches Mike Nolan and Al Harris (CB) re-coaches and schemes for him going forward.

My biggest issue with Chido is what we were told he was and what he has become. He has also regressed consistently over his time here. If you watch him closely he gives up on a lot of plays, is not a willing tackler, and plays with zero aggression. He acts like a guy that is very comfortable being a mediocre player. Par for the course in Dallas but with a new HC and some renewed urgency that attitude should not fly.
 

nyc-cowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,071
Reaction score
10,658
He’a not just covering #2 WRs, This isn’t 1980s football, #1 WRs are all over the field

And Cooper is a WR, an inconsistent one. This is one of the deepest WR draft classes in NFL history. He’s expendable. We have safety to worry about in this draft.

Pay Jones and get a stud safety.
Yes #1 WRs go everywhere but if your an OC who you gonna be looking to target more? Jones or Chido....

Cooper I'm weary about - I'm good with not signing him and Jones and spend that money on a DT and Safety.

Draft a WR and get a mid priced CB.
 

mattjames2010

Well-Known Member
Messages
21,474
Reaction score
20,154
Yes #1 WRs go everywhere but if your an OC who you gonna be looking to target more? Jones or Chido....

Cooper I'm weary about - I'm good with not signing him and Jones and spend that money on a DT and Safety.

Draft a WR and get a mid priced CB.

Jones allows them to help Chido more or any other corner. A stud safety just adds to this.

As I said, Jones shutting down his part of the field is just value you don’t get often in the modern NFL. And a “mid-priced CB” would be a huge downgrade. You might as well pay Jones market value.
 

starfan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,126
Reaction score
11,385
He’a not just covering #2 WRs, This isn’t 1980s football, #1 WRs are all over the field

And Cooper is a WR, an inconsistent one. This is one of the deepest WR draft classes in NFL history. He’s expendable. We have safety to worry about in this draft.

Pay Jones and get a stud safety.

to be fair its also a very good CB draft
 

Wapp5200

Active Member
Messages
124
Reaction score
70
Byron will be paid like a good cover guy who doesn't get INTs. Quinn is a pass rush specialist only. The NFL knows their weaknesses and they will be paid accordingly. I have faith in the owners. :muttley:
I dont have faith in our owner!!!!
 
Top