The Full Scope Of Dak’s Leverage

ABQCOWBOY

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just curious, what is a "football guy"

Well, I suppose the answer to that is subjective but the short answer, at least in my mind, is somebody who is employed by the League and who deals with these kinds of things on a day to day basis. Somebody who is affiliated with the team, somebody who covers the NFL as a matter of profession in some capacity who is subject to information that is pertinent to the subject matter. In short, somebody who knows more then the average person posting on twitter or a message board.

So yeah, what's your definition of a "football guy"?
 

Proof

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Well, I suppose the answer to that is subjective but the short answer, at least in my mind, is somebody who is employed by the League and who deals with these kinds of things on a day to day basis. Somebody who is affiliated with the team, somebody who covers the NFL as a matter of profession in some capacity who is subject to information that is pertinent to the subject matter. In short, somebody who knows more then the average person posting on twitter or a message board.

So yeah, what's your definition of a "football guy"?

That seems like a reasonable definition.

You know Joey covers the team professionally though, right?
 

atlantacowboy

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Jerry did make a mistake caving in to Zeke but D-Law did play one year under the tag (before his big deal) and had a pretty good season, Jerry didn't have much choice at that point and had to give him the contract he wanted

I liked DLAW........until he used his injured shoulder as leverage in negotiating a contract basically refusing to have the surgery until it was done........... at some point the organization has to have a little dignity and respect for itself. The Patriots find ways to move and deal these kinds of players away. We embrace them.
 

Philmonroe

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That seems like a reasonable definition.

You know Joey covers the team professionally though, right?
Does he or does he have a podcast and website? I think there is a difference when people,are speaking on "football guys". Somebody like Bryan Broadus like or not people would consider a football guy. A Peter King tyoe a football guy not just any ole,person that has a blog and or podcast and it like Ikes stuff that I've heard.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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That seems like a reasonable definition.

You know Joey covers the team professionally though, right?

I know he writes pieces for somebody, maybe the Athletic? IDK, but I don't know that he's a guy who actually covers the team and is close to the situations involved with the negotiations. If I read his tweet, it doesn't really provide any info that we, as casual fans, didn't already know. He draws conclusions based on assumptions that may or may not be accurate. The problem I have with this is that he treats it like a zero sum game and it's not. The team has a lot of different options and they could elect to exercise any number of them. Any of them could change the landscape around this situation. To me, the term "cover" suggests that he is actually doing that. He has access to members of the team and is actually speaking to people associated with the situation. It's not reading what others are reporting and then writing an article or a blog that basically gives opinion on what has already been reported by others. Of course, that's only my take on that so it could be that others see the definition of "covering a team" differently.

His background is financial so I don't know how much access he actually has. The Athletic is essentially a subscription sports Website that has been around since 2016. It's not a big time publication that you see on a day to day basis or mainstream publication. The term, "cover" is a misnomer in this case, from what I can tell.

But yes, I know he writes pieces about the Cowboys.
 

MarcusRock

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Im ok with it if he wants to be tagged for 2 years and then become a FA to maximize his earning potential, but I'm damn sure going to draft his replacement this year if it does not work out and he goes we have our future set. if he decides to stay we have a tradable asset.

The Cowboys should draft a potential replacement for Dak this year in case he sits the year out. I would also spend a little cap room to get a reasonably good veteran backup in place.

Then I would tag Dak and let him consider his options. In that situation, holding out makes no sense for Dak.

Draft a QB where? First round? You do that and you take away the bluer chip defensive resources we desperately need. If you draft a QB later, then you're getting less of a blue chip QB and lessen the chance of him panning out. The "but, but look at Prescott's story" retort is answered by asking how many times has something like that happened in the NFL, much less to the same team. And we've had it happen twice to us in succession. Not good odds. If the Cowboys play hardball like fans want, chances are you're sacrificing the season or seasonS. That's not what the front office wants and what they want usually wins out. They didn't want to take that chance with Zeke.

This is why Prescott has Zeke-level leverage and way more than the "deniers of his deal" crew want to admit and why they opine more out of their hope than reality. Like Zeke, I think their hopes will get dashed.
 

Typhus

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Agreed.

Reminds me of the Zeke saga. If Zeke played for Bellicheck or Pete Carroll none of this sit out garbage would of happened. Both coaches would tell the media (when the media asked in the off-season about extensions) "no we don't do extensions/hold outs with 2 years left, our organziation have never been run this way, there will be no future talk of contract extensions". That would of literally been the END of it.

Stupid Jerry and his arrogant Son do the opposite and tell the media "we already have the money allocated for him", "Zekes our boy for life", "Todd gurley is the starting point of negotiations" then try to act all suprised when he holds out.........

Dak will have all the leverage until they put there foot down and start doing things to move on

Exactly, I still remember shaking my head and asking myself why they would ever say that, as if they had/have zero clue on negotiating leverage.

Instead they act as if they don't even have to worry about cap ramifications, we can say whatever we want because we are rich stupid fools,,

Jerry has made several serious blunders recently that will cost this franchise for even another long term losing era,, my apologies to the delusional.

The Cowboys signed the wrong players first.

Jaylon
Gregory
Zeke - which also includes bad build strategy.. really good RB, really bad stupid contract.

Should have already had the Dak deal done, rather you like Dak or not, without these other bad contracts, and now this franchise is going to probably loose Cooper because of it.
That's pissing away a 1st round pick, and when you do that, you fall behind the rest of the league, and you continue being just an average team.

The thought process of this front office has been rather lame duck status as of lately, and that what equates to failure in this fast paced league of late, where you get left behind
quickly and fall behind and left behind these days.

Even bad teams like Arizona are putting the pieces together to be successful in this new era of the game.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Draft a QB where? First round? You do that and you take away the bluer chip defensive resources we desperately need. If you draft a QB later, then you're getting less of a blue chip QB and lessen the chance of him panning out. The "but, but look at Prescott's story" retort is answered by asking how many times has something like that happened in the NFL, much less to the same team. And we've had it happen twice to us in succession. Not good odds. If the Cowboys play hardball like fans want, chances are you're sacrificing the season or seasonS. That's not what the front office wants and what they want usually wins out. They didn't want to take that chance with Zeke.

This is why Prescott has Zeke-level leverage and way more than the "deniers of his deal" crew want to admit and why they opine more out of their hope than reality.

I know this may not be addressed to me but figured I would just respond. The QB situation doesn't have to be in the first round, per say. It could be later but it should be somebody who has more potential to play in the NFL, above just carrying a clip board. It's funny, I guess QBs don't do that anymore do they? Maybe the term "clipboard" might need to be replaced with the term "tablet". The guy we draft needs to be talented enough to represent the possibility of being our starter in two to three years. At the very least, be a backup who can give you a chance to win a game if your starter is out IMO.

The the question of "how many times has this happened", for us it's happened at least 4 times that I can recall. In fact, 4 of the top 5 QBs in franchise history, have been one of those guys. Stauback, White, Romo and Dak, have all been one of those guys. It can happen and we, as Cowboy Fans, should really be believers in the idea that it can happen IMO.
 

HellCrowe

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That’s one way to see between the lines. However, Dak isn’t the second coming of greatness so to think he has “ALL” the leverage is a real reach.

In the real world, no matter how good you are at your job, you can always be replaced. When your boss is Jerry Jones and a contract hasn’t been done yet, I am sure they are considering all avenues. You’ve heard it time and time again, “the face of the franchise” “irreplaceable” etc. LOL Dak doesn’t have that much power and even if he thinks he’s above all, time and time again, they’re shown the door.

Just saying, If Dak was so great, no matter how much bravado you’ve heard from the Jonses, a contract should and should’ve been done.
 

jterrell

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If Daks agent wants a short deal (due to the new CBA) then I would do a kirk cousins type deal. 3 years 100 million all guaranteed. Doesn't bankrupt the team and it gives new coaches 3 years to either get Dak to where they want or train his successor.
DAL wouldn't take that deal and neither would Dak.
As Joey noted the min Dak gets is 65M or so over next two seasons FULLY GTD.

DAL likewise gains nothing but having 100m tied up across 3 season with no "out years" or other cap mechanisms.
They want 6 or 7 years for a reason. They don't wanna have to resign the QB right after Pat, Watson and Lamar.

Dak and his agent see the coming 17 games and extra playoff games.
Money is going to blow up very soon.
Pat will get 50m per year. Watson and Lamar likely 40+(pending this year's performance and health).

Wentz, Russ,Goff deals would look like bargains soon provided they can stay/get healthy and Goff can actually play well.
 

jterrell

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That’s one way to see between the lines. However, Dak isn’t the second coming of greatness so to think he has “ALL” the leverage is a real reach.

In the real world, no matter how good you are at your job, you can always be replaced. When your boss is Jerry Jones and a contract hasn’t been done yet, I am sure they are considering all avenues. You’ve heard it time and time again, “the face of the franchise” “irreplaceable” etc. LOL Dak doesn’t have that much power and even if he thinks he’s above all, time and time again, they’re shown the door.

Just saying, If Dak was so great, no matter how much bravado you’ve heard from the Jonses, a contract should and should’ve been done.
None of that matters.
Dak doesn't have to play here.
DAL has zero replacement options of note.

Dak simply has more options than DAL does. He is an immediate upgrade in 20 NFL cities and provides a long term solution in like 5 more.
He is a top 10 QB just hitting his prime.
DAL has already stated they will tag him removing DAL options.

Jerry Jones isn't going to allow Stephen or anyone else steer his final seasons as Cowboys owner to an unknown rookie type QB.
And no one in the Org is going to bring in a Bridgewater type to save 5-6m per year.
And Teddy IS the best market option outsider Dak.

Stephen and DAL flat lost contract battles with DLaw and Zeke.
They aren't winning one with Dak.
Sooner they accept that and sign the less painfully they will lose it.
 

MarcusRock

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I know this may not be addressed to me but figured I would just respond. The QB situation doesn't have to be in the first round, per say. It could be later but it should be somebody who has more potential to play in the NFL, above just carrying a clip board. It's funny, I guess QBs don't do that anymore do they? Maybe the term "clipboard" might need to be replaced with the term "tablet". The guy we draft needs to be talented enough to represent the possibility of being our starter in two to three years. At the very least, be a backup who can give you a chance to win a game if your starter is out IMO.

The the question of "how many times has this happened", for us it's happened at least 4 times that I can recall. In fact, 4 of the top 5 QBs in franchise history, have been one of those guys. Stauback, White, Romo and Dak, have all been one of those guys. It can happen and we, as Cowboy Fans, should really be believers in the idea that it can happen IMO.

"Possible starter in two to three years" doesn't do much for us now. Dak's leverage is in the team trying to maximize now, just like Zeke's was. Again, the FO is not going to want to sacrifice seasons if they think Dak is good enough now. They've even said as much. For the other part, Staubach was top tier talent with a special situation. Danny White was a 3rd Rounder who rode the bench behind Staubach for 3-4 years. Romo rode the bench for a few years as well. Dak was the only starter his rookie season, and even then he was drafted to ride the bench a few years. So we were even luckier with Dak than the others. But my post had to do with chances. Sure, it's great we had the luck, but hope and belief doesn't overcome chances the same way I'm saying fans' hope won't overcome Dak getting mostly what he wants out of this deal. When there's money on the line you pay close attention to the chances and act in accordance. Happened with Zeke and will happen here.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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"Possible starter in two to three years" doesn't do much for us now. Dak's leverage is in the team trying to maximize now, just like Zeke's was. Again, the FO is not going to want to sacrifice seasons if they think Dak is good enough now. They've even said as much. For the other part, Staubach was top tier talent with a special situation. Danny White was a 3rd Rounder who rode the bench behind Staubach for 3-4 years. Romo rode the bench for a few years as well. Dak was the only starter his rookie season, and even then he was drafted to ride the bench a few years. So we were even luckier with Dak than the others. But my post had to do with chances. Sure, it's great we had the luck, but hope and belief doesn't overcome chances the same way I'm saying fan's hope won't overcome Dak getting mostly what he wants out of this deal. When there's money on the line you pay close attention to the chances and act in accordance. Happened with Zeke and will happen here.

I see. So I suppose you can show me the guarantee that says if we did pay Dak, it guarantees us something now, yes? You are giving an opinion, just like everybody else. That's it.

There are no guarantees either way.
 

MarcusRock

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I see. So I suppose you can show me the guarantee that says if we did pay Dak, it guarantees us something now, yes? You are giving an opinion, just like everybody else. That's it.

There are no guarantees either way.

LOL. Where did I say anything about guarantees? As I've said twice in my posts now, this is about "chances." The very definition of the word "chances" in no way implies a guarantee, does it? Again, money makes business folks pay far greater attention to what chances look like than fans' "hopes" and they will do so here. So you can believe in the Dallas Cowboys' ability to find sub-Round 1 starting QB material all you want. The FO believes they have their guy and the going rate is what it is. Fans won't be happy but after whining, they'll watch like the rest. Chances trump hopes in this case like it did with Zeke's. The sooner fans accept this, the less online wrangling they'll experience unless the process is therapeutic for them. Must be. I'm just here to help.
 

calicowboy54

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Draft a QB where? First round? You do that and you take away the bluer chip defensive resources we desperately need. If you draft a QB later, then you're getting less of a blue chip QB and lessen the chance of him panning out. The "but, but look at Prescott's story" retort is answered by asking how many times has something like that happened in the NFL, much less to the same team. And we've had it happen twice to us in succession. Not good odds. If the Cowboys play hardball like fans want, chances are you're sacrificing the season or seasonS. That's not what the front office wants and what they want usually wins out. They didn't want to take that chance with Zeke.

This is why Prescott has Zeke-level leverage and way more than the "deniers of his deal" crew want to admit and why they opine more out of their hope than reality. Like Zeke, I think their hopes will get dashed.

NO NO not in 1st round we need a blue chip prospect that can do some damage this year. I was thinking more like 2nd or 3rd round.. Ideally Trade down in to the 20's pick up a extra 3rd and use the 3 3rds to move back in to the 2nd and get a QB or take some of your draft capital and move around in 3rd to get someone to back up possibly replace if needed.
IM just saying dont go in to the year with only Dak and Coop as your QB, we need a better backup to Coop and someone that can come in and win some games if Dak Holds out or Signs and then gets hurt.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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LOL. Where did I say anything about guarantees? As I've said twice in my posts now, this is about "chances." The very definition of the word "chances" in no way implies a guarantee, does it? Again, money makes business folks pay far greater attention to what chances look like than fans' "hopes" and they will do so here. So you can believe in the Dallas Cowboys' ability to find sub-Round 1 starting QB material all you want. The FO believes they have their guy and the going rate is what it is. Fans won't be happy but after whining, they'll watch like the rest. Chances trump hopes in this case like it did with Zeke's. The sooner fans accept this, the less online wrangling they'll experience unless the process is therapeutic for them. Must be. I'm just here to help.

The part where you said "it doesn't do much for us now....". Fair enough, but that statement suggest that signing Dak leads to results now, correct? Well, if that is the case, then show me the guarantee of that. If it's not the case, then you really can't suggest that thinking ahead is not a good move, in light of contract demands and the ramifications of all of that going forward.

This organization has found 4 of the 5 best QBs in the history of the franchise in the 3rd, 4th, 10th and as an UDFA. I mean, deal with that and then tell me why I shouldn't believe that we can't accomplish this again. Tell me why I shouldn't believe that we can.

This entire fans will be happy and watch stuff, once they win. The entire pay him thing...... Well, the team hasn't paid him yet. Why is that? Maybe it's because they, like us, are waiting to see the winning part you talk about, at some point out there in the future. That's a lot of talk at this point.
 

HellCrowe

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None of that matters.
Dak doesn't have to play here.
DAL has zero replacement options of note.

Dak simply has more options than DAL does. He is an immediate upgrade in 20 NFL cities and provides a long term solution in like 5 more.
He is a top 10 QB just hitting his prime.
DAL has already stated they will tag him removing DAL options.

Jerry Jones isn't going to allow Stephen or anyone else steer his final seasons as Cowboys owner to an unknown rookie type QB.
And no one in the Org is going to bring in a Bridgewater type to save 5-6m per year.
And Teddy IS the best market option outsider Dak.

Stephen and DAL flat lost contract battles with DLaw and Zeke.
They aren't winning one with Dak.
Sooner they accept that and sign the less painfully they will lose it.

You are correct, “Dak doesn’t have to play here” and if you think it, the FO has thought it.

with that said, pertaining to the thread, “All of the leverage” makes it seem like he’s a damn UFA. 20 other teams would love have him and that comes with a price that can be attached for at least 2 up to 3 years.

No replacement options argument goes for every team in the NFL.

Jerry isn’t going to? Lol by the way talks has been going, Jerry is plainly saying Dak isn’t worth what he wants. With that in mind, as a successful and prideful business man who loves to gamble, why wouldn’t he see how far this goes? One of the biggest trades, the Herschel Walker debacle worked out. Emotions aside, anything can happen. That includes him signed to a contract, 30-40/year and even not playing here next year.
 

MarcusRock

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NO NO not in 1st round we need a blue chip prospect that can do some damage this year. I was thinking more like 2nd or 3rd round.. Ideally Trade down in to the 20's pick up a extra 3rd and use the 3 3rds to move back in to the 2nd and get a QB or take some of your draft capital and move around in 3rd to get someone to back up possibly replace if needed.
IM just saying dont go in to the year with only Dak and Coop as your QB, we need a better backup to Coop and someone that can come in and win some games if Dak Holds out or Signs and then gets hurt.

Gotcha. I agree about getting a better backup than Rush, that's for sure. But if you're talking 2nd and 3rd rounds, the QBs taken in Dak's draft class were Christian Hackenberg, Jacoby Brissett, and Cody Kessler. Those QBs were a combined 5-20 their first 2 years in the league. Brissett is the serviceable QB you speak of now but this is after 4 years. Would the FO want to roll the dice like that and risk trusting the keys to a rookie if Dak holds out? Zeke was more replaceable than Dak and they didn't want to chance it so I don't think that do that here with odds even worse.
 

MarcusRock

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The part where you said "it doesn't do much for us now....". Fair enough, but that statement suggest that signing Dak leads to results now, correct? Well, if that is the case, then show me the guarantee of that. If it's not the case, then you really can't suggest that thinking ahead is not a good move, in light of contract demands and the ramifications of all of that going forward.

This organization has found 4 of the 5 best QBs in the history of the franchise in the 3rd, 4th, 10th and as an UDFA. I mean, deal with that and then tell me why I shouldn't believe that we can't accomplish this again. Tell me why I shouldn't believe that we can.

This entire fans will be happy and watch stuff, once they win. The entire pay him thing...... Well, the team hasn't paid him yet. Why is that? Maybe it's because they, like us, are waiting to see the winning part you talk about, at some point out there in the future. That's a lot of talk at this point.

Again, chances don't imply guarantee and I've stated nothing but what the chances look like. One thing signing Dak does guarantee though is that we don't get stuck with a Paxton Lynch clone taken with the 27th pick in the draft that year. We draft higher this year but just saying. That's why your chances are better with Dak and money follows chances. You get a guy you have to wait years for and you risk losing precious seasons until he can "maybe" be your guy. Again, taking chances versus what is known. Money sticks with the known quantity if they feel it's good enough. Their talk says they do.

We've found a lot of good QBs later in the draft and yet we lucked into Prescott after trying to get the aforementioned Lynch and Connor Cook the same draft. You like those odds? You want to believe we can find lightning in a bottle again, go for it. But the people with the money know the history of that draft and are looking to spend their money wisely while also trying to capitalize on success now. What you say makes sense if we're looking to scrap it all and start over like the Niners did. I've not heard chatter about that from anyone other than fans. Have you?

The team hasn't paid Prescott because of this thread's title. Dak has mucho leverage, hence his side dictates the terms more. How late did Zeke get paid? Know why? He had leverage. And just like the OP tweeter said, once the time crunch deadline comes, a deal will get done and odds are it'll be the FO that caves. As a QB and with Cooper Rush backing him up, Dak has even more leverage than Zeke did. You denied Zeke had leverage then when we debated and I assume you're denying Dak has it now but correct me if I'm wrong. Wishing it away because of how you feel about it doesn't make it less a reality. Dak's team is driving this negotiation bus (oh, the irony of those that called Dak a bus driver QB) but they'll leave the meetings in a Brinks truck.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Again, chances don't imply guarantee and I've stated nothing but what the chances look like. One thing signing Dak does guarantee though is that we don't get stuck with a Paxton Lynch clone taken with the 27th pick in the draft that year. We draft higher this year but just saying. That's why your chances are better with Dak and money follows chances. You get a guy you have to wait years for and you risk losing precious seasons until he can "maybe" be your guy. Again, taking chances versus what is known. Money sticks with the known quantity if they feel it's good enough. Their talk says they do.

We've found a lot of good QBs later in the draft and yet we lucked into Prescott after trying to get the aforementioned Lynch and Connor Cook the same draft. You like those odds? You want to believe we can find lightning in a bottle again, go for it. But the people with the money know the history of that draft and are looking to spend their money wisely while also trying to capitalize on success now. What you say makes sense if we're looking to scrap it all and start over like the Niners did. I've not heard chatter about that from anyone other than fans. Have you?

The team hasn't paid Prescott because of this thread's title. Dak has mucho leverage, hence his side dictates the terms more. How late did Zeke get paid? Know why? He had leverage. And just like the OP tweeter said, once the time crunch deadline comes, a deal will get done and odds are it'll be the FO that caves. As a QB and with Cooper Rush backing him up, Dak has even more leverage than Zeke did. You denied Zeke had leverage then when we debated and I assume you're denying Dak has it now but correct me if I'm wrong. Wishing it away because of how you feel about it doesn't make it less a reality. Dak's team is driving this negotiation bus (oh, the irony of those that called Dak a bus driver QB) but they'll leave the meetings in a Brinks truck.

So if there is no guarantee, why should anybody believe that it's in the best interests of the team to overpay for a QB, so to speak? Why should anybody believe that Dak has all of this leverage you are claiming? Why should fans be opposed to the suggestion that it's better to go the other way and save money at QB and turn around and invest that savings on the Defense or some other area? I mean, most fans of Dak believe that he is better then most of the QBs in the playoffs last year. Is there a QB, other then maybe Wilson or Mahomes that you believe is better then Dak? Maybe Rodgers? And yet, 9 to 10 teams managed to get to the playoffs while we sat home. Is it then logical to assume that the reason for this is because their team is better, not necessarily their QB?

Let me just say this as well, if Dak had gone to the Broncos or if he had gone to Raiders, he's likely not starting today. He's certainly not talking about a deal anywhere near this. Dak is lucky because he got drafted onto a loaded team. He fell into it by because both guys ahead of him got themselves injured before the season ever started. For all we know, Cook or Lynch might have enjoyed similar success, had they been able to get drafted by the Cowboys.
 
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