Do people really believe there is a better option than Dak this year?

ABQCOWBOY

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If money is what we are concerned about, we think Dak has had a ton of help which enabled him to be successful, why not roll the dice on another draft pick surrounded by the talent Dak has had and let him do the same thing? We save a ton of money which should enable us to put together a stronger team around the cheap QB.

I don't want to be in limbo with a mediocre QB getting paid significantly more than what Dak has been making these past 4 years just because they are cheaper than what Dak is asking for.

If we are going to go cheap, then let's go cheap and the new QB sinks or swims. If he sinks, we get draft capital for a top QB. If he swims we save a ton of money on the cap. Win-win.

I agree. Why not do that but that doesn't stop you from signing a Vet. We should have been doing that all along so yeah, lets sign a decent Vet. Lets draft a young QB and lets move on if no deal can be done. I mean, I see where you are trying to go here and I understand why you are doing it but like paying Dak whatever he wants is a bad idea, so is drafting a young QB and just throwing them out there. I don't believe in that method of developing a QB. I don't believe that helped Dak. I believe it hurt him more because he missed out on actually developing the mechanics he needs to be a great NFL QB. If he had gotten two seasons of actually learning, he would be in a better place today IMO but that didin't happen. Whatever, it's done now. Point is, I'm not a fan of that and I'm not going to throw it out there just to try and win an argument. To me, it's dumb to suggest under any circumstances. Why don't we, as a fan base, get right with running this organization the way it should be run rather then argue 24x7 ove things that we all know are wrong. You don't draft a young QB with talent to some day be your franchise guy and then intentionally put him in a situation that can ruin him IMO. That's exactly how you don't run an organization.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Keenum has been on one team that was anywhere close to decent. That team got farther than Dallas has in a quarter century. So, even though QBs do not win or lose, he apparently can win more than Dak.

There are a ton of logical fallacies, factual errors, and poor arguments in your post, but I'll just stick to the first for now.
Keenum can win more than Dak? ok, Keenum had the #1 defense and #1 scoring defense and Zimmer as head coach. Could Dak do that if he is given those type of resources?
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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So then you are all about confident then? OK, you going on record that Dak is winning a championship next year if he gets paid like he has won a championship? Confidence is all well and good on a message board but it means zero.

I know Keenum can win. Any QB can win in the right situation. You think Dak can't lose if he goes to the wrong situation?
I didn't say we are winning a championship next year. so don't try to spin. What I said, was with any of the other QBs we are not winning a championship and at best it will be 2021 with Brady.

I also said, I am not confident with Stafford.

now, if you want reality, I don't think we will win championship next year, not necessarily because of Dak, but so many holes on the team, new system, new coaches, etc. I don't think any team has ever done that in the past. But we probably have a better chance of at least going to the playoffs with Dak next year than any other QB.

and again, Keenum will be in his 7th team. he only once reached the NFCCG on a fluke play... and he had the #1 defense. and Zimmer as his supporting cast. and he was so good, that Minn. decided to let him walk and go over pay for Cousins!!! so somebody else's garbage is our gold now? is that your point?

again, in the absence of any better options, the option at hand maybe the best option available. even if you don't like that option. I have asked, even posted my opinion about why any of these other options may not necessarily be better. yet, you have been asked several times and yet every time refused to provide your reasoning outside of Dak is not worth what ever money he will get offered. so you just don't like Dak, seemingly you don't trust any other QB since you are not advocating for any of them. you just want to save money on the cap...that's it! right?

here is your chance again. give you plan, thoughts, reasoning on why any of these other QBs are better options and why...……..otherwise you have nothing
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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This is the problem I have with these kinds of discussions. This has been discussed on this board literally hundreds of times. The plan should be to sign a Vet who can come in and give you a chance to win for a few years and Draft a young QB who can be developed. Personally, I don't believe any of those QBs would cost us more then what Dak might cost us but that's here nor there. The point is that if you can't get a deal done with Dak, you can't just allow a player to demand whatever salary they wish. If you can't agree on a salary, then you got to move on. That's the only way you can control your cap. All the rest of this discussion, to me, is pointless. End of day, control your costs or be caught in a bad financial situation until it drags you down. That's kinda how I see it.
which Vet? give a few names.... you keep saying not Dak, yet haven't given any other realistic options...what do we accomplish with the Vet in the next three years....isn't the objective to win a championship?

so you want to draft a young QB...ok, isn't that what we did with Romo...everyone wanted him gone and draft a young QB and develop him...now you just want to go through it again.....dump the one we developed....over a few million dollars and who are the sure bet QBs that we should draft where we are in the draft and , what should be our level of confidence in them developing to an elite QB within the first 3 years of their contract? and what do we do if they don't develop? go look for the next one? and be stuck in a never ending cycle of looking for a QB because we don't want to pay a QB!!!

and btw, isn't that what the FO is doing with Dak. negotiations have been going on for almost a year if not longer..... they are not just giving in to his demands....
 

Aviano90

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I agree. Why not do that but that doesn't stop you from signing a Vet. We should have been doing that all along so yeah, lets sign a decent Vet. Lets draft a young QB and lets move on if no deal can be done. I mean, I see where you are trying to go here and I understand why you are doing it but like paying Dak whatever he wants is a bad idea, so is drafting a young QB and just throwing them out there. I don't believe in that method of developing a QB. I don't believe that helped Dak. I believe it hurt him more because he missed out on actually developing the mechanics he needs to be a great NFL QB. If he had gotten two seasons of actually learning, he would be in a better place today IMO but that didin't happen. Whatever, it's done now. Point is, I'm not a fan of that and I'm not going to throw it out there just to try and win an argument. To me, it's dumb to suggest under any circumstances. Why don't we, as a fan base, get right with running this organization the way it should be run rather then argue 24x7 ove things that we all know are wrong. You don't draft a young QB with talent to some day be your franchise guy and then intentionally put him in a situation that can ruin him IMO. That's exactly how you don't run an organization.
That was the old way of doing things. QBs are thrown out there in year 1 now and survive.
 

atlantacowboy

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Only Brady would be worth more than Dak was making last year. If we are going to move on from Dak, then we need to find someone just as cheap as he was for the performance he gave us. I don't want the team to increase QB cost for an even worse option. That shouldn't be hard to find considering how bad of a QB Dak is.

We don't have a choice. We aren't drafting another starter in round 4. Dak was dumb luck that fell into our lap, and we had our window with him. Jerry should have been loading up on free agents to bolster this roster like was done in Seattle, Philly, LA, and SF prior to their super bowl runs.

The real question now is how to strike a balance between retaining talent , adding talent, and paying for it. But at the very minimum, QB will cost a lot more next year.
 

Aviano90

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We don't have a choice. We aren't drafting another starter in round 4. Dak was dumb luck that fell into our lap, and we had our window with him. Jerry should have been loading up on free agents to bolster this roster like was done in Seattle, Philly, LA, and SF prior to their super bowl runs.

The real question now is how to strike a balance between retaining talent , adding talent, and paying for it. But at the very minimum, QB will cost a lot more next year.
We do have a choice. I'd rather tank than overpay a mediocre QB. Same reason you don't want to overpay Dak. Not looking for an expensive 8-8 option that keeps us middle of the pack.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I didn't say we are winning a championship next year. so don't try to spin. What I said, was with any of the other QBs we are not winning a championship and at best it will be 2021 with Brady.

I also said, I am not confident with Stafford.

now, if you want reality, I don't think we will win championship next year, not necessarily because of Dak, but so many holes on the team, new system, new coaches, etc. I don't think any team has ever done that in the past. But we probably have a better chance of at least going to the playoffs with Dak next year than any other QB.

and again, Keenum will be in his 7th team. he only once reached the NFCCG on a fluke play... and he had the #1 defense. and Zimmer as his supporting cast. and he was so good, that Minn. decided to let him walk and go over pay for Cousins!!! so somebody else's garbage is our gold now? is that your point?

again, in the absence of any better options, the option at hand maybe the best option available. even if you don't like that option. I have asked, even posted my opinion about why any of these other options may not necessarily be better. yet, you have been asked several times and yet every time refused to provide your reasoning outside of Dak is not worth what ever money he will get offered. so you just don't like Dak, seemingly you don't trust any other QB since you are not advocating for any of them. you just want to save money on the cap...that's it! right?

here is your chance again. give you plan, thoughts, reasoning on why any of these other QBs are better options and why...……..otherwise you have nothing

No, of course you didn't say that but you did bring up the "Doesn't Sound Very Confident" angel. Well, what if I said that this post doesn't sound very confident? See how that sounds?

Bottom line, I don't care who the QB is. If they or there agent are demanding a certain contract that the team can't afford to pay and no resolution can be had, then the team has to move on. QB salaries are escalating to quickly and actual QB talent is not as good as it once was but the actual Offenses are not as hard either so teams should not allow QBs and agents to command such a position. If they can't play for a contract that a team is willing to pay, then the logical step for both parties is to move on.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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which Vet? give a few names.... you keep saying not Dak, yet haven't given any other realistic options...what do we accomplish with the Vet in the next three years....isn't the objective to win a championship?

so you want to draft a young QB...ok, isn't that what we did with Romo...everyone wanted him gone and draft a young QB and develop him...now you just want to go through it again.....dump the one we developed....over a few million dollars and who are the sure bet QBs that we should draft where we are in the draft and , what should be our level of confidence in them developing to an elite QB within the first 3 years of their contract? and what do we do if they don't develop? go look for the next one? and be stuck in a never ending cycle of looking for a QB because we don't want to pay a QB!!!

and btw, isn't that what the FO is doing with Dak. negotiations have been going on for almost a year if not longer..... they are not just giving in to his demands....

Man I'm not doing this again. I've had this conversation and we even discussed it earlier in this thread. If you don't know who the options are, go figure it out or don't, it's up to you. Either way, the point is that you can not run your organization believing there is no other option but to pay. I'm not doing that and I hope the team doesn't either. If you want to go find somebody to argue over the question of who, I'm cool with it but I've done it over and over and over and I'm not doing it again. Like it or don't.

You say that I keep saying anybody but Dak. That's a lie. I have never said that. Show me one time I've ever said that. Won't happen because I've never said that.

Yes, we drafted a young QB when Tony was here. What's your point? When you say everybody wanted him gone, I am not sure of who you mean by "everybody" but I can only assume you mean everybody you were arguing with, which was not me. I didn't want Tony gone because we had paid him a stupid amount of money and I wanted to get value out of it. I wanted Dak to sit and learn. I wanted Tony to be able to play because he was the guy who, IMO, gave us the best chance to win it that year.

You don't seem to really read what posters write. What I see you doing here is reading into what people write and then create your own narrative. Once again, I never said I WANTED to dump Dak. I said if the team and Dak can't come to an agreement, then the team needed to move on and not be held hostage. IF that's the way you want this team to be run, cool but I'm not down with that. Never will be so yeah, if no agreement can be reached, move on. Trade him and never look back.

But again, you can't guarantee that Dak is a "Sure Fire" guy so you sit here and ask me who's the guy but when that question is turned around and asked to you, you say you can't guarantee that it's Dak. Well, why then should I agree to pay him whatever? You say it's just a few million, well, how do you know that? Do you have something that says it's just a few million that is the difference? Exactly how much is a few million. Is it 2 million? Is it 7 million, I'm mean you say just a few million but what is a few million?

You don't know but then you ask other fans questions like this. You, yourself don't know but you are trying to go down this path?

You say we don't want to pay a QB but that's not really true is it. We don't want to pay Dak top dollar. There is nothing at all that suggest the team doesn't want to pay Dak. They just don't want to pay him what Dak and perhaps you, want to see him get paid.


Come on....
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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No, of course you didn't say that but you did bring up the "Doesn't Sound Very Confident" angel. Well, what if I said that this post doesn't sound very confident? See how that sounds?

Bottom line, I don't care who the QB is. If they or there agent are demanding a certain contract that the team can't afford to pay and no resolution can be had, then the team has to move on. QB salaries are escalating to quickly and actual QB talent is not as good as it once was but the actual Offenses are not as hard either so teams should not allow QBs and agents to command such a position. If they can't play for a contract that a team is willing to pay, then the logical step for both parties is to move on.
I am confident that Dalton, Keenum or Stafford aren't the answers. I am also confident that Brady is not the answer.

does that answer your confidence question?

and I did say, that the FO is negotiating and there is no resolution to the contract yet....so seemingly they are not willing to bend to no end. does that make you feel better?
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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We do have a choice. I'd rather tank than overpay a mediocre QB. Same reason you don't want to overpay Dak. Not looking for an expensive 8-8 option that keeps us middle of the pack.
how would we tank? why should we tank? what guarantees are there that we could get a franchise QB? we just Paid Lawerence. We just paid Zeke, Martin, Fredrick and Collins are all under contract. we just drafted LVE two years ago and have him for another 3 years and we just handed smith a contract....there is talent there. so are you suggesting we should trade, cut all of them in order to tank, ala Miami? why then hire a new coaching staff? wouldn't we tank better with Garrett at the helm?

the facts are that in a 5 year window, there are only 5 teams that can win the superbowl and lets say some of the top 15 teams are still looking for QBs...and perhaps improving from year to year....does this mean that after 5 years, teams should just dump their QBs because price goes up and start all over again? so that every NFL team basically has a 5 year window to win a championship starting from the time they drafted their QB (and got lucky to have found one). Unless they are like Brady and willing to give a home count discount, and he is the only one that has really done that.

at some point, teams have to figure out how to sign their QB and build a winning team....this year we may have a good opportunity....we have 90 million in cap space and no dead cap money....
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Man I'm not doing this again. I've had this conversation and we even discussed it earlier in this thread. If you don't know who the options are, go figure it out or don't, it's up to you. Either way, the point is that you can not run your organization believing there is no other option but to pay. I'm not doing that and I hope the team doesn't either. If you want to go find somebody to argue over the question of who, I'm cool with it but I've done it over and over and over and I'm not doing it again. Like it or don't.

You say that I keep saying anybody but Dak. That's a lie. I have never said that. Show me one time I've ever said that. Won't happen because I've never said that.

Yes, we drafted a young QB when Tony was here. What's your point? When you say everybody wanted him gone, I am not sure of who you mean by "everybody" but I can only assume you mean everybody you were arguing with, which was not me. I didn't want Tony gone because we had paid him a stupid amount of money and I wanted to get value out of it. I wanted Dak to sit and learn. I wanted Tony to be able to play because he was the guy who, IMO, gave us the best chance to win it that year.

You don't seem to really read what posters write. What I see you doing here is reading into what people write and then create your own narrative. Once again, I never said I WANTED to dump Dak. I said if the team and Dak can't come to an agreement, then the team needed to move on and not be held hostage. IF that's the way you want this team to be run, cool but I'm not down with that. Never will be so yeah, if no agreement can be reached, move on. Trade him and never look back.

But again, you can't guarantee that Dak is a "Sure Fire" guy so you sit here and ask me who's the guy but when that question is turned around and asked to you, you say you can't guarantee that it's Dak. Well, why then should I agree to pay him whatever? You say it's just a few million, well, how do you know that? Do you have something that says it's just a few million that is the difference? Exactly how much is a few million. Is it 2 million? Is it 7 million, I'm mean you say just a few million but what is a few million?

You don't know but then you ask other fans questions like this. You, yourself don't know but you are trying to go down this path?

You say we don't want to pay a QB but that's not really true is it. We don't want to pay Dak top dollar. There is nothing at all that suggest the team doesn't want to pay Dak. They just don't want to pay him what Dak and perhaps you, want to see him get paid.


Come on....
come on dude, yes we did have this conversation and you are non committal to anything, except that you don't want to pay dak. that has been your entire view and posts on this topic.."I don't know any better options, but I don't want Dak!!", "I can't think of anything else, but I don't want Dak!!"...did I get it

.you are now pi!ssed off because I asked you to present your options (again) if you don't want Dak, yet you still haven't!!! you just don't want Dak!! we get it
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I am confident that Dalton, Keenum or Stafford aren't the answers. I am also confident that Brady is not the answer.

does that answer your confidence question?

and I did say, that the FO is negotiating and there is no resolution to the contract yet....so seemingly they are not willing to bend to no end. does that make you feel better?

Cool. I am confident that if the team and Dak can't reach an agreement, it won't matter, we will need a Vet option. I'm equally confident that we can not continue to sign guys who are able to do nothing but stand on the sideline, rather then start a game for us and actually have a chance to win, as our backup.

So, does this answer my confidence question? No because you are ignoring the real issue. Why does the FO have to bend? I mean, I don't care if you said that they are negotiating or not. What does that answer or even prove? Do you know what the terms of the negotiations are? If you don't, then what does your statement prove?
 

ABQCOWBOY

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come on dude, yes we did have this conversation and you are non committal to anything, except that you don't want to pay dak. that has been your entire view and posts on this topic.."I don't know any better options, but I don't want Dak!!", "I can't think of anything else, but I don't want Dak!!"...did I get it

.you are now pi!ssed off because I asked you to present your options (again) if you don't want Dak, yet you still haven't!!! you just don't want Dak!! we get it

How in the world can I be committed to anything? I don't know the issues with regards to negotiations. I mean, only a fool would act like they know what's up when they have none of the details. If you want to continue to act as if you understand the negotiation and what's being discussed, that's fine but I am not doing that. I don't know the details so I can't comment on actual facts.

And I will tell you this only once more. I never said I don't want Dak so if you are going to continue to try and put words in my mouth, then you will find yourself having this discussion with somebody else. I'm not doing that and you are going to do that to me.

It's up to you. Act like a big boy or move on.
 

Aviano90

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how would we tank? why should we tank? what guarantees are there that we could get a franchise QB? we just Paid Lawerence. We just paid Zeke, Martin, Fredrick and Collins are all under contract. we just drafted LVE two years ago and have him for another 3 years and we just handed smith a contract....there is talent there. so are you suggesting we should trade, cut all of them in order to tank, ala Miami? why then hire a new coaching staff? wouldn't we tank better with Garrett at the helm?

the facts are that in a 5 year window, there are only 5 teams that can win the superbowl and lets say some of the top 15 teams are still looking for QBs...and perhaps improving from year to year....does this mean that after 5 years, teams should just dump their QBs because price goes up and start all over again? so that every NFL team basically has a 5 year window to win a championship starting from the time they drafted their QB (and got lucky to have found one). Unless they are like Brady and willing to give a home count discount, and he is the only one that has really done that.

at some point, teams have to figure out how to sign their QB and build a winning team....this year we may have a good opportunity....we have 90 million in cap space and no dead cap money....
If we are afraid to pay Dak, why should be want to go out and pay for a scrub like Dalton or Stafford? Dak just made $2 million a year and people weren't happy with his performance but all of a sudden want to go get a worse QB for $15-$20 million? Yeah, I don't want that, do you?

If we aren't going to roll with Dak because he cost too much money, the other QBs also cost too much money. I'd rather roll the dice and go cheap again than pay a middling QB a lot more than what Dak just earned last year just because he cost less than what Dak is asking for. If that means we get a bust of a QB, then so be it.
 

garyo1954

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This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend.
Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue posting in it just because...

Stafford
Dalton
Bridgewater
Brady
Mariota
Rivers
Foles
Newton
Tua
Herbert

Pick your poison. Any of those guys have the same, if not better, chance of doing exactly what Prescott will do this year. Don't take my word for it......

@JayS dak had a top 5 running back, top 5 offensive live, top 5 wide receiving corps, 11th ranked defense and still went 8-8 and couldn't beat a eagles team that was playing with a bunch of backups. Dak s**ks
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Cool. I am confident that if the team and Dak can't reach an agreement, it won't matter, we will need a Vet option. I'm equally confident that we can not continue to sign guys who are able to do nothing but stand on the sideline, rather then start a game for us and actually have a chance to win, as our backup.

So, does this answer my confidence question? No because you are ignoring the real issue. Why does the FO have to bend? I mean, I don't care if you said that they are negotiating or not. What does that answer or even prove? Do you know what the terms of the negotiations are? If you don't, then what does your statement prove?
:huh:

this was the best on the fence answer I have ever read on this board. :eek:
 

Kevinicus

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Keenum can win more than Dak? ok, Keenum had the #1 defense and #1 scoring defense and Zimmer as head coach. Could Dak do that if he is given those type of resources?
Gee, what would Keenum do with all Dak has had his entire career?
And you made my point about QBs not winning. Teams do. So, maybe you shouldn't have been going on about "Can Keenum win?"

Keenum:
Good Team - NFC Championship
Terrible Terrible Teams - Does poorly.

Dak:
Good Team - Divisional Round at best, misses playoffs at worst
Terrible Terrible Teams - never had one
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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How in the world can I be committed to anything? I don't know the issues with regards to negotiations. I mean, only a fool would act like they know what's up when they have none of the details. If you want to continue to act as if you understand the negotiation and what's being discussed, that's fine but I am not doing that. I don't know the details so I can't comment on actual facts.

And I will tell you this only once more. I never said I don't want Dak so if you are going to continue to try and put words in my mouth, then you will find yourself having this discussion with somebody else. I'm not doing that and you are going to do that to me.

It's up to you. Act like a big boy or move on.
:facepalm:
 
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