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cnuball21

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Haven't seen the scouting reports but the games I watched he looked to have A+ instincts.

I haven’t watched a ton, but what I’ve seen looks like a superior athlete running really fast and making a tackle.

I’ll have to dig in a little more, but haven’t seen a lot where he makes a quick read, hits the right hole and makes a stop.

It reminds me a bit of Jaylon, who seems to be just a tick late a lot which is why a lot of his tackles are catching the RB 5+ yards past the LOS instead of making stops.

I absolutely think Murray can be a good pro, but if we’re taking a LB in the top 20 I’d like to be more confident he’ll be better than that.
 

Macnalty

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If there’s no long term concern around LVE signing an off ball LB at 17 would be dumb as dirt IMO.
WR will probably be BPA at 17 unless some video appears on youtube. Ruggs most likely would be a lethal combo with the other two WRs. Need a run on the QB's in order to have Kinlaw slide our way or at least into our trade area, Odukah is not going to fall close to us IMO. Those two are the only stand pat talents at 17 that fill a need and are BPA. I would trade back if we had to stop and think about it. We need to grab one of the WR's in the first two rounds, it's just so deep in talent.
 

cnuball21

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WR will probably be BPA at 17 unless some video appears on youtube. Ruggs most likely would be a lethal combo with the other two WRs. Need a run on the QB's in order to have Kinlaw slide our way or at least into our trade area, Odukah is not going to fall close to us IMO. Those two are the only stand pat talents at 17 that fill a need and are BPA. I would trade back if we had to stop and think about it. We need to grab one of the WR's in the first two rounds, it's just so deep in talent.

I'm all for drafting a WR this year, but think you've contradicted yourself in saying we need to draft one in the first 2 rounds with how deep the class is.

If Lamb and Ruggs are gone...wait until the mid rounds and we can get a really good WR.
 

Macnalty

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I'm all for drafting a WR this year, but think you've contradicted yourself in saying we need to draft one in the first 2 rounds with how deep the class is.

If Lamb and Ruggs are gone...wait until the mid rounds and we can get a really good WR.

Unless we get a run on QB's we might not have on the menu any of the top three, It is a confusing response, had two thoughts going. No doubt Jeudy, Lamb, and Ruggs are the first three. Chenault (freak z position), Jaleon Rigur rock solid slot movement z, Tee Higgins matchup nightmare in the redzone and on third downs, these guys will all be gone by pick 51. Could be five pro bowl WR's in that list without adding Jefferson.
The moves made in FA show we are not going to be a top defense maybe you agree with that maybe not.
The wins are going to be on the back of the offense, at seventeen what pick makes your offense better? Maybe one of the top Olinemen if they slide, for sure one of these WR's. The three or four after Ruggs will contribute greatly in our offense IMO, and in any other year they would be rated much higher.
We only have a chance in rd 1 at these elite talents, and getting a pick at seventeen that can contribute immediately is an outlier in most drafts. Pick 51 will be longer term projects without much help in year one IMO. 51 leaves us maybe with Mims, kj Hamler, Pittman as maybe the next tier available.
 

cnuball21

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Unless we get a run on QB's we might not have on the menu any of the top three, It is a confusing response, had two thoughts going. No doubt Jeudy, Lamb, and Ruggs are the first three. Chenault (freak z position), Jaleon Rigur rock solid slot movement z, Tee Higgins matchup nightmare in the redzone and on third downs, these guys will all be gone by pick 51. Could be five pro bowl WR's in that list without adding Jefferson.
The moves made in FA show we are not going to be a top defense maybe you agree with that maybe not.
The wins are going to be on the back of the offense, at seventeen what pick makes your offense better? Maybe one of the top Olinemen if they slide, for sure one of these WR's. The three or four after Ruggs will contribute greatly in our offense IMO, and in any other year they would be rated much higher.
We only have a chance in rd 1 at these elite talents, and getting a pick at seventeen that can contribute immediately is an outlier in most drafts. Pick 51 will be longer term projects without much help in year one IMO. 51 leaves us maybe with Mims, kj Hamler, Pittman as maybe the next tier available.

The “next tier” of this class is really, really good. There are a handful of guys that would likely go top 50 in most drafts that will be taken in rounds 3/4 this year because the class is so strong.
 

morasp

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They do seem to be looking at a lot of LBs this year. Moose had the same surgery as LVE and said he was never the same after it. Hopefully medical technology has improved. I've seen the same comments about Murray. I'd rather take a LB later on like Wilson or Harrison in round 3.

Overview
Sleek, playmaking linebacker with chiseled frame and long arms. Murray's game is predicated on speed with an ability to fly around from sideline to sideline rolling up tackles. While his twitchy burst allows him to make more plays than the average linebacker, he will overflow to ball-carriers at times. Recognition of play development and ability to take on blocks are both underdeveloped currently, but a move to weak-side linebacker would put him in position to minimize those concerns and maximize his playmaking talent. Murray has hit-or-miss qualities and is more splashy than consistent, but he's immensely talented with the ability to imprint on games on all three downs.
 
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cnuball21

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They do seem to be looking at a lot of LBs this year. Moose had the same surgery as LVE and said he was never the same after it. Hopefully medical technology has improved. I've seen the same comments about Murray. I'd rather take a LB later on like Wilson or Harrison in round 3.

Overview
Sleek, playmaking linebacker with chiseled frame and long arms. Murray's game is predicated on speed with an ability to fly around from sideline to sideline rolling up tackles. While his twitchy burst allows him to make more plays than the average linebacker, he will overflow to ball-carriers at times. Recognition of play development and ability to take on blocks are both underdeveloped currently, but a move to weak-side linebacker would put him in position to minimize those concerns and maximize his playmaking talent. Murray has hit-or-miss qualities and is more splashy than consistent, but he's immensely talented with the ability to imprint on games on all three downs.

Agree. I really do like Murray, just not at 17.

I really like Logan Wilson and think he could be had in the 3rd or 4th. Above average SPARq athlete, consistent production and great instincts.
 

morasp

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Agree. I really do like Murray, just not at 17.

I really like Logan Wilson and think he could be had in the 3rd or 4th. Above average SPARq athlete, consistent production and great instincts.
If they do take a LB I would love Wilson, instincts are key at LB.
 

ChuckA1

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CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Trade up targets: Young, Simmons, Brown, Okudah, Kinlaw
Stand a take: Henderson, Juedy, Lamb, Chaisson
Trade down targets: Delpit, Gross Matos, Diggs, McKinney
I like being aggressive here. If we can trade up a little for Kinlaw or Simmons, I'm all for it.
 

Macnalty

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The “next tier” of this class is really, really good. There are a handful of guys that would likely go top 50 in most drafts that will be taken in rounds 3/4 this year because the class is so strong.
The WR class is where the talent is this year and to come out of this draft without one of the top ones would be short sighted if one is available when our pick is called. IMO But is one of the O linemen fall that requires a pause before placing the pick, it will simply be a choice between a good pick, and a great talent. No certain picks to be clear but lots of evidence we could get immediate help on offense from the WR group top eight.
 

cnuball21

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The WR class is where the talent is this year and to come out of this draft without one of the top ones would be short sighted if one is available when our pick is called. IMO But is one of the O linemen fall that requires a pause before placing the pick, it will simply be a choice between a good pick, and a great talent. No certain picks to be clear but lots of evidence we could get immediate help on offense from the WR group top eight.

Why do we need to get one of the top ones? The drop off in talent from guys in the 4-8 range and the 8-12 range is very small.

We just signed Cooper to a $100 million dollar deal and have Gallup coming off a 1K year entering his prime.

We can get immediate help from this WR class in rounds 3-5.

Outside of Juedy and Lamb I’m not taking a WR in the 1st. Outside or Reagor, Ruggs, Jefferson and maybe Aiyuk I’m not taking a WR in the 2nd.

The guys I’ve listed likely will be taken before we pick, so who are you pounding the table for in the 1st 2 rounds?
 
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beware_d-ware

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I've been watching film on the CB class recently (I kind of watch film in spurts).

I think the top end of the class is thin - the only two dynamic, lockdown CB1s I see are Okudah and Henderson, but there's like half a dozen second-tier guys who I think have an easy road to becoming a starter. Fulton, Diggs, Arnette, Gladney, etc etc.... Safety isn't as big of a need with Ha-Ha in the fold, but you still have Delpit, McKinney, and Winfield there. I'd be fine with Ashtyn Davis in the second too.

If we want to wait, I think there will pry be a good DB DB sitting there in the 2nd if we go that route. I don't see 12 DBs going in the first 50 picks.
 

cnuball21

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I've been watching film on the CB class recently (I kind of watch film in spurts).

I think the top end of the class is thin - the only two dynamic, lockdown CB1s I see are Okudah and Henderson, but there's like half a dozen second-tier guys who I think have an easy road to becoming a starter. Fulton, Diggs, Arnette, Gladney, etc etc.... Safety isn't as big of a need with Ha-Ha in the fold, but you still have Delpit, McKinney, and Winfield there. I'd be fine with Ashtyn Davis in the second too.

If we want to wait, I think there will pry be a good DB DB sitting there in the 2nd if we go that route. I don't see 12 DBs going in the first 50 picks.

I agree. Hoping we can get Griffen in FA to sure you DE, then like the idea of Henderson at 17 and another CB in the 3/4th bc I think is a lot of depth this year.
 

DallasBlockersClub

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@ 17:

Henderson
Brown
Kinlaw
Juedy
Lamb
Baun
Delpit (50/50 here - would like to see elite athleticism at pro day to validate)

Trade Down:

- McKinney
- Chaisson
- Gross- Matos (50/50 here - need to see solid pro day numbers)
- Fulton

Delpit is a GREAT trade down candidate.
 

Macnalty

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Why do we need to get one of the top ones? The drop off in talent from guys in the 4-8 range and the 8-12 range is very small.

We just signed Cooper to a $100 million dollar deal and have Gallup coming off a 1K year entering his prime.

We can get immediate help from this WR class in rounds 3-5.

Outside of Juedy and Lamb I’m not taking a WR in the 1st. Outside or Reagor, Ruggs, Jefferson and maybe Aiyuk I’m not taking a WR in the 2nd.

The guys I’ve listed likely will be taken before we pick, so who are you pounding the table for in the 1st 2 rounds?

Unless one of the Oline talents or Kinlaw falls to us, the BPA that will be a WR, I understand why someone would rather draft for position, it relinquishes the draft to its lowest denominator and is easier to understand without adding another dimension like a trade back. Pounding the table for the chance to get a great WR with a domestic spot in the draft is pure art and yes, I hold our front office with a considerable amount of contempt.
Ruggs/Lamb would be at the top of the list, if not available we should realize that a trade back would be great value. Nab one of the top "8" WRs with value, At pick 51 the cupboard is bare and full of projects IMO with current media data in late March just before the draft. Reagor, Tee Higgins, Jefferson, Shenault, and KJ Hamler should all be considered on the menu. The art of picking them at a value spot other than pick 17 or 51 is the acumen of the draft.
Your thoughts about grabbing an immediate help WR in rounds 3-5, the regression to the mean can be sobering in the later rounds.
At some point you will allow yourself to come to the conclusion that the defense can only do so much with help from this draft, the most help can be delivered to the offense if you look at the available talent IMO. I personally like the choice to go all in an attempt to win with the offense because fixing the defense puts us another year out of a realistic SB appearance. Jerry is not getting any younger and us believing our coaches can correct inferior talent will no longer hold water with the microscope that the media provides.
Clearly the long game strategy with this front office is difficult for them to comprehend and execute. It's a family business that wants you to believe they know more than the professionals (how else does JG stay so long), and some fans are still drinking from that kool aid pitcher. I am still a fan, just more jaded as the years pass without a significant amount of trust in the ownership besides them making money at the expense and reputation of the cowboys. Win now and bring me back into the fevered fold.
 

DanA

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Unless one of the Oline talents or Kinlaw falls to us, the BPA that will be a WR, I understand why someone would rather draft for position, it relinquishes the draft to its lowest denominator and is easier to understand without adding another dimension like a trade back. Pounding the table for the chance to get a great WR with a domestic spot in the draft is pure art and yes, I hold our front office with a considerable amount of contempt.
Ruggs/Lamb would be at the top of the list, if not available we should realize that a trade back would be great value. Nab one of the top "8" WRs with value, At pick 51 the cupboard is bare and full of projects IMO with current media data in late March just before the draft. Reagor, Tee Higgins, Jefferson, Shenault, and KJ Hamler should all be considered on the menu. The art of picking them at a value spot other than pick 17 or 51 is the acumen of the draft.
Your thoughts about grabbing an immediate help WR in rounds 3-5, the regression to the mean can be sobering in the later rounds.
At some point you will allow yourself to come to the conclusion that the defense can only do so much with help from this draft, the most help can be delivered to the offense if you look at the available talent IMO. I personally like the choice to go all in an attempt to win with the offense because fixing the defense puts us another year out of a realistic SB appearance. Jerry is not getting any younger and us believing our coaches can correct inferior talent will no longer hold water with the microscope that the media provides.
Clearly the long game strategy with this front office is difficult for them to comprehend and execute. It's a family business that wants you to believe they know more than the professionals (how else does JG stay so long), and some fans are still drinking from that kool aid pitcher. I am still a fan, just more jaded as the years pass without a significant amount of trust in the ownership besides them making money at the expense and reputation of the cowboys. Win now and bring me back into the fevered fold.

So many things going through my head after reading this.

Is this post intentionally condescending?
Was it written in another language and put into google translate?


The metaphors in this post are just a little off causing me to double-take constantly. And I just flat out disagree with the premise....except for the Jerry bit. While Jeudy and Lamb stand above, I think Ruggs is behind Henderson and Chaisson as far as talent goes. Add need to the equation and it's not even close.
 

cnuball21

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Unless one of the Oline talents or Kinlaw falls to us, the BPA that will be a WR, I understand why someone would rather draft for position, it relinquishes the draft to its lowest denominator and is easier to understand without adding another dimension like a trade back. Pounding the table for the chance to get a great WR with a domestic spot in the draft is pure art and yes, I hold our front office with a considerable amount of contempt.
Ruggs/Lamb would be at the top of the list, if not available we should realize that a trade back would be great value. Nab one of the top "8" WRs with value, At pick 51 the cupboard is bare and full of projects IMO with current media data in late March just before the draft. Reagor, Tee Higgins, Jefferson, Shenault, and KJ Hamler should all be considered on the menu. The art of picking them at a value spot other than pick 17 or 51 is the acumen of the draft.
Your thoughts about grabbing an immediate help WR in rounds 3-5, the regression to the mean can be sobering in the later rounds.
At some point you will allow yourself to come to the conclusion that the defense can only do so much with help from this draft, the most help can be delivered to the offense if you look at the available talent IMO. I personally like the choice to go all in an attempt to win with the offense because fixing the defense puts us another year out of a realistic SB appearance. Jerry is not getting any younger and us believing our coaches can correct inferior talent will no longer hold water with the microscope that the media provides.
Clearly the long game strategy with this front office is difficult for them to comprehend and execute. It's a family business that wants you to believe they know more than the professionals (how else does JG stay so long), and some fans are still drinking from that kool aid pitcher. I am still a fan, just more jaded as the years pass without a significant amount of trust in the ownership besides them making money at the expense and reputation of the cowboys. Win now and bring me back into the fevered fold.

I’m having a little trouble following what you’re saying. Juedy and Lamb are gone by 17 and a lot of the guys you mentioned don’t warrant the selection even in a trade down.

If there is a WR that is way better than what defender is on the board take him but we need to look at the draft big picture and understand how to maximize value via the depth of that position this year.
 

Macnalty

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So many things going through my head after reading this.

Is this post intentionally condescending?
Was it written in another language and put into google translate?


The metaphors in this post are just a little off causing me to double-take constantly. And I just flat out disagree with the premise....except for the Jerry bit. While Jeudy and Lamb stand above, I think Ruggs is behind Henderson and Chaisson as far as talent goes. Add need to the equation and it's not even close.
Thanks for keeping me on my toes.
Not meaning to be condescending, English is my first language and I had been speaking another language most of the day which probably promoted my abnormal syntax.
With Frederick retiring my premise of improving the offense in one year to make up for the deficit in the defense has sprung some major leaks. Losing Frederick and Byron Jones is a huge blow to the team which cannot be remedied in one year of this I am convinced. Oline just got added to the menu at pick 17 and the season just got harder.
I disagree on Henderson and Chaisson before Ruggs mostly on the lack of impact in the rookie season not on talent. A case could be made for both but not in year one, in my judgement Ruggs can produce from the start not so much in stats but by the opposing defense when he is on the field with Cooper, and Gallup. This makes Zeke better along with Cooper and Gallup. Not sure you get that kind of synergy and value with any of the players you have mentioned.
 

Macnalty

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I’m having a little trouble following what you’re saying. Juedy and Lamb are gone by 17 and a lot of the guys you mentioned don’t warrant the selection even in a trade down.

If there is a WR that is way better than what defender is on the board take him but we need to look at the draft big picture and understand how to maximize value via the depth of that position this year.
With Fredbeard retiring an new philosophy will be needed pertaining to the draft. This changes lots of draft value for us.
Agree Jeudy and Lamb are gone at 17, what position left impacts the team most in year one that is left on the board. I see more value with these WR's than you do at this time in late March. I also have the feeling we only have Gallup for another year. Hopefully we have a season to prove me right or wrong this year.
 
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