Lets go get Griffen and we are good to go

Sydla

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Thank you. Exactly. I’m not making moves as if I’m set because I got a 30 year old sitting there. That’s foolish.

It buys you time.

Let's say Heath left and we didn't add Dix and had Woods, Thompson and Wilson as the only Ss on the roster. In that situation, you have no choice but to add a safety in the draft. And when you have no choice you often end up reaching for players (we saw this last year when we absolutely needed a DT in the draft and stretched to take Hill).

However, now that you have Dix at S, you can still draft a S but you don't HAVE to HAVE one in the draft because you've bought yourself one year and then maybe next year, you get a better opportunity to draft a S.
 

JW82

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Normally I'd be against this, but i hate the idea of depending on Gregory and any rookie from this weak DE draft class.

Added- I forgot about Crawford, but He is really an out of position LDE imo.
 

Sydla

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You can be productive at 32. Just like you can be productive at 42. That's not how you build a team though hoping a 32 year old is still in his prime.



I'm talking about the starters. Lawrence should be 27 or 28. Poe 30, McCoy 32 and you are suggesting signing Griffin which would be 32. That's a old defensive line.

And why are you asking me to provide this information? You are the one disagreeing with me correct? Why don't you provide the info to backup your stance that adding 3 30 year old defensive linemen is wise.

Who said build a team with 32 year olds. This is one of the bullcrap myths you guys throw around here when people suggest going after a player over the age of 30.......... that somehow, people want to "build" through FA and older players. No one has ever suggested that. But teams, successful ones, add guys that are older in FA all of the time to supplement what they have drafted and maybe what they missed in drafting in order to put a more complete team on the field.

Even in adding McCoy and Griffen, we'd hardly be one of the oldest teams around and our core would still be almost all drafted players - Prescott, Elliott, Martin, Smith, Collins, Jarwin, Gallup, Pollard, Lawrence, Smith, LVE, Lee, Awuzie, Woods, etc.......... all homegrown players.

As for your last paragraph, you were the one who introduced two concepts - older players only want to cash a check and older DLs aren't very good to refute people that want to add a guy like Griffen. The onus is on you to back that up when questioned.

I can support my claim easily:

- Calais Campbell..........as a 31 year old, the Jags signed him and he had a 14.5 sack season and then came back with a 10.5 sack season at the age of 32.
- Julius Peppers was a 34 year old edge player who left Chicago and signed with GB. At 34 he started for the Pack and logged 7 sacks and came back as a 35 year old and logged 10.5 sacks.
- In 2018, the Eagles brought in a 33 year old Michael Bennett and he had 9 sacks for them and was arguably their best DE by year end.

That's just three off the top of my head. So no, being over 30 as a DL doesn't mean you are gonna suck and are just looking to cash some checks and can't be productive.
 
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Whirlwin

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We should wait to sign free agents until after the draft so they're cheaper.
I’ve always said that my cowboy brother. I would love free agency to come after the draft.
What a great effect that would have on the cap. Absolutely in my opinion they wouldn’t get that high price prima donna money
 

OmerV

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Normally I'd be against this, but i hate the idea of depending on Gregory and any rookie from this weak DE draft class.

Added- I forgot about Crawford, but He is really an out of position LDE imo.
Can't get a shiney new toy at every position. Some positions will require making do with what we have.
 

Whirlwin

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Normally I'd be against this, but i hate the idea of depending on Gregory and any rookie from this weak DE draft class.

Added- I forgot about Crawford, but He is really an out of position LDE imo.
Crawford is a solid run stopper. But that’s the problem he’s only a rotational player. He just not big enough to get the pressure. But he can’t stop the run
 

OmerV

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You can be productive at 32. Just like you can be productive at 42. That's not how you build a team though hoping a 32 year old is still in his prime..

Teams are built on a mixture of players - both younger and veterans, both long term contracts and short term. Obviously you want a team that has some youth and therefore is sustainable over time, but that doesn't mean no older veterans at all. Besides, I don't think the Cowboys are necessarily thinking these guys are in their prime, just that there they can perform at something close to their prime level. No team is filled with nothing but players in their prime.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Who said build a team with 32 year olds. This is one of the bullcrap myths you guys throw around here when people suggest going after a player over the age of 30.......... that somehow, people want to "build" through FA and older players. No one has ever suggested that. But teams, successful ones, add guys that are older in FA all of the time to supplement what they have drafted and maybe what they missed in drafting in order to put a more complete team on the field.

Even in adding McCoy and Griffen, we'd hardly be one of the oldest teams around and our core would still be almost all drafted players - Prescott, Elliott, Martin, Smith, Collins, Jarwin, Gallup, Pollard, Lawrence, Smith, LVE, Lee, Awuzie, Woods, etc.......... all homegrown players.

As for your last paragraph, you were the one who introduced two concepts - older players only want to cash a check and older DLs aren't very good to refute people that want to add a guy like Griffen. The onus is on you to back that up when questioned.
They do add older veterans. NO one is knocking adding Poe and McCoy. Its adding a 3rd one is the problem that I would have. Old defensive lines don't do well.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Teams are built on a mixture of players - both younger and veterans, both long term contracts and short term. Obviously you want a team that has some youth and therefore is sustainable over time, but that doesn't mean no older veterans at all. Besides, I don't think the Cowboys are necessarily thinking these guys are in their prime, just that there they can perform at something close to their prime level. No team is filled with nothing but players in their prime.
I'm not suggesting a mixture of players. McCoy and Poe are fine. Go get a younger edge rusher. Hell I still go DT even with that 17th pick if he's the best guy there.
 

ultron

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With Poe coming on board Griffen fills a huge spot at RDE rotate him with Gregory and this is the best line on paper that we have had in recent memory. Draft CB, S, WR, BPA and lets go.

My 4 round mock matches what you’d like to do:

I’m assuming Crawford takes a 50% pay cut and we save 4.5m, and Randy Gregory gets reinstated (even though I don’t see Goodell making it an easy process for him). Ultimately I see those two splitting time at RDE and hopefully this Dontari Poe deal gets done. That leaves us with needs at CB, S, Slot WR, C, TE for the sake of argument. So here’s what I’d like to see:

Round 1:
Xavier McKinney (S-Alabama)


Coverage Spacing - He doesn't have elite single high FS range to roam the back end but his football intelligence is top shelf and allows him to shade and attack — he'll often crash the party at the catch point and disrupt targets. Playing him in deep half or as a rat in intermediates will yield plenty of pass disruptions in zone.

Acceleration - He's got pretty fluid click and close, able to really explode on routes breaking off in front of his face. He's fearless stepping down into the alley too. Shows effective closing burst from the nickel to duck into gaps and attack the QB. Simply doesn't have the long speed to play sideline to sideline in single high.

Tackling - Plays with an attitude. More consistent here in 2019 and smacked guys in the mouth all season long. He'll attack the football as opportunities arise but his contact balance and confidence to run the feet and deliver jarring hits has produced effective kill shots on bigger ball carriers. Impressive space tackler.

Zone Coverage Skills - Instinctive. He flows to mirror the eyes of QBs and will excel if he's given free assignments to sucker quarterbacks and bait throws over the middle of the field. He takes good angles and times his arrival and contests at the catch point from overhead leverage with consistency to not draw penalties.

Ball Skills - His hands are feisty at the catch point and he does a good job of raking at the ball when he's a tick late the throw. Hands are soft on tipped balls and throws he's able to undercut in man coverage. Appreciate his nose for the football in all senses, too — he's ripping out the ball on tackles and at the catch point routinely.

Competitive Toughness - Not afraid of contact and love his stickiness as he's carrying routes down the field. His persistence extends to catch point reps, as a tackler and when stacking up blockers in the secondary. Has had success roaming as a sub-package LB as well to step into the second level and fill the run.

Flexibility - Clean mobility throughout his frame. He does well to hinge and open himself into throws and provides good extension skills to combat the ball. His base is dynamic and doesn't show a lot of wasted movement. Reach to spring and explode laterally from flat footed stance is notable as well.

Feet/COD - Appreciate how well he stays balanced. He's not one to hop out of stance prematurely or provided a swinging gate when he's leveraged over the top of routes in coverage. His movement economy is aided by lower body mobility and protects him from drifting at the top of route breaks or taking sloppy transitions.

Man Coverage Skills - Lock down? No, not necessarily. But he's a pest from the trail position and tackled assignments against tight ends down the field. He's got good length to press or disrupt inside the contact window as well before flipping his hips with clean transitions to work into the trail position. Match-up weapon in the MOF.

Versatility - Ask him to do anything. Go ahead. He's a one size fits all defender for some kind of primary role but his football IQ and athletic ability and tackling skills will bring him high reps and snap counts regardless of the sub-package in the NFL. Creative coordinators will get the most out of him by using him with flexibility.

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Best Trait - Versatility

Worst Trait - Deep Range

Best Film - LSU (2019)

Worst Film - Clemson (2018)

Red Flags - None

Player Summary - Xavier McKinney can be a game changing defender for an NFL defense. With plustackling skills in space, strong football IQ and a knack for hunting the football in all phases, McKinney projects as a difference maker and explosive play creator. McKinney's versatility should keep him on the field at all times and he's shown ability to thrive as a deep third or half safety, in the nickel, blitzing as a pressureplayer, keying the run and more. Do it all defender and plug/play starter.

Round 2:
Damon Arnette (CB-Ohio St)

Man Coverage Skills - He's sticky! Love his hip mobility to keep framed on receivers and continue to pressvertically with pace. His comfort and trust in technique to get reattached to receivers in transition is really strong and allowed a lot of strong challenges ontargets. He's comfortable playing on the island outside.

Zone Coverage Skills - Shows diversity on the back end — holds water in the flats effectively but disguises his deep zone reps really well to hide intentions. His break on the ball is suitable and he takes good angles when targeted in space to break on the play and ensure he's getting involved at the catch point.

Feet/COD - Clean. He's not the most rapid fire corner I've seen but he's controlled smooth and he offers plenty of lateral or transitional quickness near the LOS when walked into face of receivers. Strong click andclose ability to drive downhill and disrupt on quick game in front of his face.

Ball Skills - Really strong work here. His ability to stay attached to receivers with eyes back to the QB had him on the doorstep of a ton more turnover production in 2019. He's violent through the hands of receivers and has enough bounce to elevate above the rim andhighpoint the football.

Flexibility - Won't find very many issues in his ability to redirect, sink his hips or contort his frame at the catch point. Clean body control and shows good bend through his drops in zone and strong lateral hinge in his hips when forced to transition and carry vertically atthe LOS.

Acceleration - He's got plenty of juice and offers spring in short spaces to quickly undercut throws versussloppy routes or inaccurate throws. He's got good long speed — not necessarily going to win foot races in the open field against 4.3 guys but he's pesky thanks to his feisty hand play and good anticipation.

Defensive Spacing - Constantly crowding receivers atthe catch point, persistent to rip through the hands. That said, he can get a little too ambitious in this area and needs to avoid letting the upfield hand wraparound the torso. Shows desirable range for deep third or flat zone, plus necessary range in man to man.

Competitive Toughness - Can get caught up when you ask him to sift through traffic and be slow to find daylight and rally to the ball. He's a scrappy dude andhis work on the boundary is just fine — but he got lost a few times looking to avoid contact and work intosupport tackler role. Physical in man to man to squeeze windows.

Run Support - His click and close ability to driveforward brings opportunities to beat blockers to the spot. He doesn't show elite length and those who get their hands on him can wall him off. There's less success when plays break off inside, you won'tconsistently see him break into the MOF and get in on a tackle.

Tackling - Does a nice job in space to make sure he stays over top of receivers when targeted to not concede big YAC opportunities. He's got good feet,needed closing burst and requisite functional strength to wrangle down ball carriers in one on one head up scenarios.

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Best Trait - Ball Skills

Worst Trait - Run Support

Best Film - Michigan State (2019)

Worst Film - Clemson (2019)

Red Flags - None

Player Summary - Damon Arnette Jr. projects as a universal scheme prospect at the NFL level — hepossesses great functional strength, quickness, body control and ball skills. Arnette has the technique to play press or off man coverage but the burst and anticipation to play in zone coverage as well. Look forArnette to find his place in a starting lineup quickly atthe NFL level, although he may never be the focal point of an NFL secondary due to lack of elite length to shadow top receivers. A plus starter.

Round 3:
Michael Pittman Jr (WR - USC)

Route Tree - He's not the most diverse as a routerunner but he has shown physicality at the top of routes to bump and create separation on hard angles. His vertical stems are pretty crafty and he's found a lotof success downfield. Gets through contact in press, into stems just fine.

Hands - Strong hands — really like what he brings at the catch point and how comfortable he is to extend his hands away from his body in order to greet the nose of the football. He's got a large catch radius and hand strength to make plays on ball adjustments.

Contested Catch Ability - High point ability and above the rim ball skills are A+ qualities that he'll bring to the table. If nothing else, his lack of separation skills haveproduced pretty solid work in traffic to shield the ball and get a hold of the ball and not be uprooted or allow defenders to beat him to the spot.

RAC Ability - Big, strong and not afraid to drop ashoulder on someone. Like his physical toughness and persistence to extend and stiff arm smaller defenders— he's got some bully to him with the ball in his hands. Zero burst or acceleration skills tempers excitement,however.

Football IQ - Can continue to work on nuance to makelife easier for himself as a route runner and further manipulate defender landmarks to help create moreseparation. He's going to have to become a master route runner to hit his peak and become a starter at the next level.

Vertical Receiving Skills - Long speed isn't going toscare anybody off but if he can stack defenders in press, look out because he's got a good sense of tracking the ball and has shown capable to get over top of defenders in trail and shield them from working back to the ball.

Change of Direction Ability - There's not a lot of redeeming qualities in his lateral quickness or start/stop ability. He's pretty clean with his feet but due to stride length and high hips, there's a lot of natural restrictions with his ability to gear down or snap off aroute with suddenness.

Speed - Slow burn receiver who needs a runway to get himself up to a competitive speed. Even with a rolling 10-yards, he's not going to pull away from defenders inthe secondary unless he can free arm and stave off contact.

Competitive Toughness - Has learned to make the most of his physical profile, appreciate his persistenceas a route runner through press, his willingness to take hits at the catch point, his effort as a blocker and his aggression with the football in his hands.

Blocking Ability - Long arms, strong hands and a persistent attitude go a long way. Like his press to getinside leverage before setting up and hitting the clamps on defenders in the secondary, he's a size mismatch for just about all comers who will handle him in coverage.

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Best Trait - Ball Skills

Worst Trait - Speed

Best Film - Utah (2019)

Worst Film - Notre Dame (2019)

Red Flags - None

Summary - Michael Pittman Jr projects to the NFL as a stereotypical 'X' receiver. With his size and ball skills, Pittman can provide an NFL team with a presence as a possession receiver. Separation is never going to becalling card and lack of consistency there may causehim to be more of a rotational receiver. But his high point ability, hands and body control will afford him plenty of opportunities to make plays in the RZ and, inthe right system, push for high volume snaps.

Round 4:
ALBERT OKWUEGBUNAM (TE-Missouri)

Route Tree - He's most effective sliding up the seam or leaking out across defensive flow in the middle of the field. His route stems aren't especially dynamic andhe's not going to stress off coverage with threat to get vertical. Can improve ability to avoid contact and get free into space.

Hands - Soft hands and shows very good concentration and ball skills. He's tracked some over his shoulder that would eat a lot of guys up but shows body control at point of reception and and ensure he's safety tucking away the football.

Versatility - Wouldn't endorse an in-line role for him any time in the near future, won a lot of his reps as a flex target working from the slot or on the perimeter in the red zone. That's where he's best afforded the chanceto win and anything else will need to come with much development.

Contested Catch Ability - Size is one of his best qualities. He'll snatch balls off the top of defenders' fingertips if you ask him to play above the rim andshows good toughness to absorb body shots. Length, reach, soft hands and catch radius combine to mitigate his separation issues.

RAC Ability - Strength is a plus and he's a tough chore to chop down one on one in the open field. His agility and speed aren't anything of note and he's not going to defeat would be tacklers with finesse. May rumble through some tackles but don't expect a lot of RAC.

Power at POA - Much more of a receiving target than a blocker. He's come along over the three years he played but still wouldn't classify it as a strength of his game. Legs are stale when he's engaged with defenders and doesn't create a lot of push. Stalemate blocker.

Competitive Toughness - A lot of his power and strength is robbed by his high frame, he's not easily able to work under the pads of defenders due to to some tightness in the hips and as a result his push and pop is really tempered and ineffective.

Flexibility - Tight through the core, but surprisingly mobile through the limps and shows a really good level of body control to stay balanced as he's adjusting to the ball as a receiver. Lateral mobility and dynamic base are low end qualities and he's not going to win with spring or agility.

Balance - When he's playing as a blocker he can be too prone to getting out over the top of his toes and allowing his weight to creep forward. Leverage issues are the main culprit and it is going to be difficult for him to find effective remedies as a blocker.

Football IQ - Shown some improvement but there's still quite a ways to go before he's ready for the NFL as an every down player. He's got to get more aware ofdefeating collisions as both a blocker and as a receiver on the route stems to help keep his routes on time with offense.

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Best Trait - Hands

Worst Trait - Explosiveness

Best Film - Memphis (2018)

Worst Film - Georgia (2018)

Red Flags - None

Summary - Albert Okwuegbunam projects as a secondary tight end at the NFL level or as adevelopmental starter, depending on how much time investment is given to further developing his skills as a blocker. Okwuegbunam is best running the seam or leak routes over the middle, but his lack of dynamicathleticism makes it difficult for him to separate against man coverage unless he illustrates more savvy to bump defenders off his hip. Valuable red zone reps on account of size and hands.


All credit to thedraftnetwork.com and Crabbs for his analysis.
 

Sydla

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They do add older veterans. NO one is knocking adding Poe and McCoy. Its adding a 3rd one is the problem that I would have. Old defensive lines don't do well.

What's your basis for this though? What old DLs are you referencing that would be similar to what we might have that stunk?
 

Sydla

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I'm not suggesting a mixture of players. McCoy and Poe are fine. Go get a younger edge rusher. Hell I still go DT even with that 17th pick if he's the best guy there.

Even with Griffen they can still add young edge players in the draft or take a DT.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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It buys you time.

Let's say Heath left and we didn't add Dix and had Woods, Thompson and Wilson as the only Ss on the roster. In that situation, you have no choice but to add a safety in the draft. And when you have no choice you often end up reaching for players (we saw this last year when we absolutely needed a DT in the draft and stretched to take Hill).

However, now that you have Dix at S, you can still draft a S but you don't HAVE to HAVE one in the draft because you've bought yourself one year and then maybe next year, you get a better opportunity to draft a S.
I disagree. I don't think signing a free agent in their 30's should determine what you do in the draft. Like they have McCoy and Poe now? I'd still go Kinlaw with that 1st pick.

Had we did this last year when we had Robert Quinn we would be in a lot better boat right now. Same goes for Byron.
 

Idgit

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We have his old DC on staff. So, if his price comes down to a neighborhood we’re comfortable with, we’ll know pretty quickly whether or not he’d be a fit here.
 

Sydla

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I disagree. I don't think signing a free agent in their 30's should determine what you do in the draft. Like they have McCoy and Poe now? I'd still go Kinlaw with that 1st pick.

Had we did this last year when we had Robert Quinn we would be in a lot better boat right now. Same goes for Byron.

Of course you go Kinlaw in the first because he's likely going to be the BPA at that pick and you could still always use a young DT (because we likely have a bust in Hill).

But now let's say we have no Ss really beyond Woods. We didn't sign Dix. The Cowboys may have Kinlaw and McKinney on the board at 17 and be forced to take McKinney because they NEED a safety.

This played out last year in the draft. We were light at DT and needed a DT out of that draft. When we picked in the 2nd round, Josh Thornhill was sitting there and instead, we reached to take the DT because we NEEDED the DT. We could have used a young safety prospect but we absolutely needed a DT in that draft. And as it stands right now, we probably should have taken the better player in Thornhill.

Same thing happened in the Taco draft. We needed a DE because we largely ignored it in FA and we had to reach a bit to get a DE prospect.

The reality is we don't have one need. We have multiple needs. But in bringing in some vets, even older ones, tp fill many of those holes you've given yourself enough flexibility that you can still go BPA at certain picks and not draft based on the fact you skipped multiple positions in FA and HAVE to take a certain player at that spot.
 

Landryhat73

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Think they wait until after the draft to sign anyone else. Like most teams they are going to concentrate on the draft, this year is even going to be harder because of the nfl rules because of the virus. Hypothetically I could see them signing Griffen if they don’t draft an edge rusher or Ryan if they don’t get a corner in round 1 or 2.

I just think your top free agents are going to wait until after the draft now because at this point teams aren’t willing to spend because they think they can meet their needs in the draft.
 
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