Poe & McCoy = starting defensive tackles for the Panthers

Cowboysheelsreds053

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After what I witness against the Colts and then PO against the rams and then the cheeseheads game this past season, I am very happy.
 

Redball Express

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You are just
Gave up 143 rushing yards a game..........

Anyone got to see much of the Panthers play last year?

Now Poe did miss 5 games last year...

DT's aren't the only sole people responsible for defending the run....even though fans on this site believe our s are the reason why they can't defend the run lol.

Maybe if they had both all year the ranking would be better?
You are just redlining to support your point.

I don't hate you for it, but we both know alot factors into your points.

The first is Can Newton.

Injured and out for weeks at a time.

This kills the team, reduces expectation enormously and puts a huge pressure to stop the other team who is holding the ball, running clock, scoring points at you at will.

Their defense has been imploding for 2 years now. They have dumped cap and probably will do more.

Rivera was a Deadman walking and the whole team knew he was not coming back.

If the entire team was working under this..

would you expect the DL to have a Pro Bowl year?

Probably not. But if you are a Cowboy fan from this Forum, you under value anybody who is not a Cowboy from birth. And you over rate your player saying you want #1 picks for them to trade them.

So right now I think you are stradling the fence baiting for answers but that is fine, too.

So your turn, big guy.
 

perrykemp

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These are essentially journeyman DTs as this point of their careers.

Both 30+ years old when the season starts.

Poe's 4th team, McCoy's 3rd team.

McCoy has missed 13 games over the past two seasons. In particular McCoy has a LOT of miles on the treads -- this will be his 11th season the NFL.

Poe 5 games missed last season.

I don't see this as anything but a push from what we last year. The backups better be ready to play because just pretty much have to count on a fair amount of missed time for these guys.
 

SackMaster

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I believe there was several factors that could be looked at. I'm not a Panthers expert by any means, but here is somethings I would question:
  • Issues with the Panthers switch to a 3-4 defense
    • Sounds like the Panthers did not have the LBs to make the switch
  • Run Defense production pre and post Poe injury
    • Apparently there was a big drop off after Poe went out
  • What was the rotation like in Carolina
    • By all reports, they rotated D-Line a ton, so maybe the backups really sucked
  • What was their individual grades in passrush and run defense
    • From what I've seen, McCoy's was pretty good
    • I have not seen any for Poe yet
  • Why was both guys available
    • In Poe's case, his release saved nearly $10 million in Panther's 2020 cap (so cap casualty)
    • McCoy signed just a 1 year deal with Carolina
In any case, we won't really know how much they will help or hurt until games start. But I will give the front office this much credit, at least they are TRYING to do something different this year.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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You are just

You are just redlining to support your point.

I don't hate you for it, but we both know alot factors into your points.

The first is Can Newton.

Injured and out for weeks at a time.

This kills the team, reduces expectation enormously and puts a huge pressure to stop the other team who is holding the ball, running clock, scoring points at you at will.

Their defense has been imploding for 2 years now. They have dumped cap and probably will do more.

Rivera was a Deadman walking and the whole team knew he was not coming back.

If the entire team was working under this..

would you expect the DL to have a Pro Bowl year?

Probably not. But if you are a Cowboy fan from this Forum, you under value anybody who is not a Cowboy from birth. And you over rate your player saying you want #1 picks for them to trade them.

So right now I think you are stradling the fence baiting for answers but that is fine, too.

So your turn, big guy.

What?! What are you going on about?....once again I was asking someone who actually paid attention to the Panthers. A few guys in here already answered my question. People have brought up great points including personnel issues and formation issues that didn't fit the talent. Among other things. Whatever issues you have.....I don't know what to tell you.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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These are essentially journeyman DTs as this point of their careers.

Both 30+ years old when the season starts.

Poe's 4th team, McCoy's 3rd team.

McCoy has missed 13 games over the past two seasons. In particular McCoy has a LOT of miles on the treads -- this will be his 11th season the NFL.

Poe 5 games missed last season.

I don't see this as anything but a push from what we last year. The backups better be ready to play because just pretty much have to count on a fair amount of missed time for these guys.
You think a push though? I don't disagree with you that at this point they are joureymen but I do think they can help our linebackers and ends a lot. I think Lawrence will get a lot of help from this.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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And I just gave you the answer. You are comparing the Panthers defensive rushing stats to the two new players the Cowboys got from the Panthers. Look man don't try to play me for some idiot. You know exactly what you posted and that is why I gave the response I did. Now I'm not going back and forth with you anymore about this. if you don't understand what you posted then that's on you.

I'm not playing you for anything you are being a idiot on your own merit. Don't put that on me. I asked you a simple question and you can't answer it. So how is that my damn fault? You seem to be lost. You do know that McCoy and Poe came from the Panthers right? That's not a comparison tot he Cowboys. Now you are done. You don't have to go back and forth about anything you are lost.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Two-gap responsibility could be the primary reason. DEs and NTs in the 3-4 are charged in run defense with taking up blockers so the linebackers can run to the ball. They are essentially blocker magnets unless Carolina was running a hybrid 3-4 like Wade Phillips'.

There's two ways you can get hurt by the run in the typical 3-4 alignment. Either your tackles aren't good enough to force the offense to maintain double teams, so the linebackers can't stay clean. Or the linebackers aren't good enough to fill the gaps created by the double-teams.

Depending on which version of the 4-3 we run, at least one of the tackles should have one-gap responsibility. One of the problems for us last year was whichever tackle was single-blocked couldn't regular disrupt opponents' running game. Woods did a better job of it than the others, but he was doubled a lot on running plays.
Understood. I honestly didn't even know they ran a 3-4 until someone said that earlier. I personally would not use them in a 3-4 defense.
 

gimmesix

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Understood. I honestly didn't even know they ran a 3-4 until someone said that earlier. I personally would not use them in a 3-4 defense.

It's not a terrible defense for a player like Poe. He commands two blockers, so he can handle that job.

It would seem to be an awful waste of a player like McCoy, who's skills are a perfect fit for a 3-tech-like tackle.
 

ConstantReboot

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Gave up 143 rushing yards a game..........

Anyone got to see much of the Panthers play last year?

Now Poe did miss 5 games last year...

DT's aren't the only sole people responsible for defending the run....even though fans on this site believe our s are the reason why they can't defend the run lol.

Maybe if they had both all year the ranking would be better?

The main reason why they gave up so much rushing yards was that they were in transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4. They were still using undersized linebackers and DT as their ends to make the 3-4 work.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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It's not a terrible defense for a player like Poe. He commands two blockers, so he can handle that job.

It would seem to be an awful waste of a player like McCoy, who's skills are a perfect fit for a 3-tech-like tackle.
He commands 2 blockers but if his strengths are pass rushing as opposed to run defense....seems like his skills would be wasted there.
 

817Gill

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Interesting. I had a feeling that things probably got out of hand in the games he wasn't there. Couldn't find a stat on it though.
There was also a second half of the season tank job and when Ron was fired, the defense fell off a cliff statistically. It was the perfect storm for poor film/stats not quite indicative of the players actual ability. Sounds something like what we witnessed here last season
 

buybuydandavis

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Gave up 143 rushing yards a game..........

Anyone got to see much of the Panthers play last year?

Now Poe did miss 5 games last year...

DT's aren't the only sole people responsible for defending the run....even though fans on this site believe our s are the reason why they can't defend the run lol.

Maybe if they had both all year the ranking would be better?


Poe missed the last 5 games. Rushing totals look significantly worse. 248, 159, 154, 218, 115 = 894
Average 179.

Average Yards with Poe = (16 * 143 - 894)/11 ~127

Over 50 yards less with Poe than without.

Can't attribute the difference all to Poe, but that's a huge differential. That's the differential going to second string, like us going from Woods to Covington, *and* lacking depth for the DT rotation.
 

gimmesix

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He commands 2 blockers but if his strengths are pass rushing as opposed to run defense....seems like his skills would be wasted there.

Poe? I'm not sure he isn't a better space eater than pass rusher. The fact that he's a space eater who can rush the passer is a plus.

All linemen depending on the call have times when they are expected to tie up or pick off blockers so that other defenders can make the play. In the 3-4, you need a nose tackle who can stuff that middle and force the run to have to go elsewhere while at least two offensive linemen are trying to move him off the point, which keeps one from peeling off and going to get a linebacker. In a 4-3 like we ran, you need the same thing. The other way to do it is one-gap across the line and depend on your linemen to get into the backfield and make plays. The problem with that is you can end up with those penetrating linemen being out of position leaving a gaping hole with blockers free to go get the linebackers. (Of course, one way to fix that is shooting the linebackers into those other gaps, but that creates other problems. I do believe that we will see Nolan do that quite a bit because the MO on him seems to be that he'll take risks hoping that they pay off.)
 

Playmaker247

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These are essentially journeyman DTs as this point of their careers.

Both 30+ years old when the season starts.

Poe's 4th team, McCoy's 3rd team.

McCoy has missed 13 games over the past two seasons. In particular McCoy has a LOT of miles on the treads -- this will be his 11th season the NFL.

Poe 5 games missed last season.

I don't see this as anything but a push from what we last year. The backups better be ready to play because just pretty much have to count on a fair amount of missed time for these guys.

Huh? McCoy has missed 2 games in the last 2 season....
 

Redball Express

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What?! What are you going on about?....once again I was asking someone who actually paid attention to the Panthers. A few guys in here already answered my question. People have brought up great points including personnel issues and formation issues that didn't fit the talent. Among other things. Whatever issues you have.....I don't know what to tell you.
No issues..

I thought you were being critical of picking up Carolina players and making to much about expecting too much because their stats were not great. Yes or no?

Did I miss that?

Again, I said what I said about Cam and Rivera being lamducks because they were leaving?

No baring on your points?

Ok. Accepted. I will read some of the other comments.

I was answering several theads and may have not been clear enough..I will look.
 

blueblood70

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seriously this group never ceases to stop whiling,

they hate garett and Marinelli but MM and Nolan sux as well, fans not happy they wanted a a new young gun most likely going to be worse but hey they want the next young trendy guy..ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

everyone hates Heath wants him gone, gone, oh wait HAHA sux not happy..

want witten gone and Jarwin signed, not happy wants someone better as a starter...

Jerry never spends money and AC was as good as gone etc-Jerry overpaid to keep him, dont pay Dak and he didnt...

we never go after bigger DT-we get two with solid reps but they arent good enough

finally replaced Maher and KF not only was good didnt miss did he?they resigning him but new thread saying go get another kicker..MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so on and so forth the whinefest continues..:facepalm::muttley:

SHUTUP , whine when it fails if it fails be my guest but until then shutty!!!RELAX its anew era:popcorn:
 
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