How effective has Will McClay been?

Wood

Wood

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daboyzruleperiod said:
In all fairness, Dallas hit on some later round picks which helped salvage those otherwise disappointing drafts. Players like Lewis, Gallup, Brown, Pollard, Armstrong & Woods have all outperformed their draft position.

Since Will’s been running personnel in Dallas, the Boys have experienced some of their most successful drafts in their long and storied history.
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Cowboys have 1 playoff victory since McClay took over draft. I would not consider that successful. Cowboys get obscene amount of media attention so star players are likely elevated beyond how good they really are. I think you are mistaking attention for success.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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WillieBeamen said:
1st off, the Cowboys are second in the number of pro bowlers over the past 10 years

2. We using the pro-bowl still to show how good a draft pick/player is? :laugh::laugh:

For example: Jaylon Smith did NOT deserve a pro-bowl nod last season. Frederick shouldnt have made it either

and you apparently skipped the first page. I destroyed that theory (McClay also wanted Charlton)
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oh wow, second...

and not saying probowl is a measure of much, but still have to be a decent player to get in probowl….

the drafts haven't been too bad, except last year when coaching staff took over and totally screwed it up....
 
Kaiser

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Beaker42 said:
How do we even know that’s true? I HIGHLY doubt the veracity of that claim.
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I HIGHLY doubt you took the two seconds needed to look it up -

As a number of teams flirted with the idea of making Will McClay their general manager, including the Houston Texans this offseason, the Dallas Cowboys made sure to show their appreciation to their vice president of player personnel.

According to sources, the Cowboys signed McClay to a two-year extension after he declined the opportunity to interview with Houston.

https://www.espn.com/blog/dallas-co...sources-cowboys-sign-will-mcclay-to-extension
 
CowboyRoy

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basel90 said:
marineli seems to have been terrible at player evaluations . isn't he the only coach to go 0-16?
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The guy got his prototype DT from Warren Sapp and has never stopped looking for the next Sapp. What he didn't understand was that having an undersized DT be that good ever again was a diamond in the rough. So what he wound up doing was getting smaller DT's that simply got pushed around. Mindless. And his scheme was outdated and predictable. Which is the exact opposite of what you want to be as a defense.
 
basel90

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Wood said:
He had good 2016 draft and was nailing 1st rounders for while so that reputation was carrying him. But last few drafts have not been good. Some of that was letting Marinelli in the war room and he was utterly disastrous at projecting defensive players. With how Dallas doesn't really spend big money in FA the draft is crucial. Next year Dallas has several extra compensatory picks so McClay really needs to nail this draft and next year or I think change happens.
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Yes I agree , seems there were lots of misses lately . The taco and hill picks are painful misses
 
basel90

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Kaiser said:
I HIGHLY doubt you took the two seconds needed to look it up -

As a number of teams flirted with the idea of making Will McClay their general manager, including the Houston Texans this offseason, the Dallas Cowboys made sure to show their appreciation to their vice president of player personnel.

According to sources, the Cowboys signed McClay to a two-year extension after he declined the opportunity to interview with Houston.

https://www.espn.com/blog/dallas-co...sources-cowboys-sign-will-mcclay-to-extension
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Ironically Houston seems to be more successful lately in getting to the playoffs than the cowboys
 
Loso86

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basel90 said:
I hear a lot of praise for Will McClay and his influence on jerry and stephen when it comes to draft selections . But do we actually know how effective he has been ? The latest draft picks have not been that great ( Gregory , Taco , Trysten Hill , LVE injury history etc ) ? Does he make the final decisions anyway ? Any inside knowledge or thoughts on McClay ?
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Hes good but like most fans hes hated if they draft a few bad eggs every now and again. Praised when he does good. Hes brought in more good talent than bad. However bad Is all that is remembered
 
jjktkk

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Wood said:
Cowboys have 1 playoff victory since McClay took over draft. I would not consider that successful. Cowboys get obscene amount of media attention so star players are likely elevated beyond how good they really are. I think you are mistaking attention for success.
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McClay supply's the players, he doesn't coach them.
 
quickccc

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My question is what year did McClay take over officially as the guy who leads the draft ?
We've had guys even before McClay like Jeff Ireland, Tom Ciskowski that were " credited" with orchestrated the draft.

sure Jerry picks up the phone and calls in that official final say of the pick.
But the personnel executive/director ( Ireland, Ciskowski, McClay) these guys along with their own working scouts and crew are responsible for evaluating, grading
and putting together the draft board. They are the ones that headline and decide when/where a certain player should be drafted in a particular round.

What changes the dynamics is when other influences pressure and push these directors in a way they would not normally plan to go to.

Such seemed the case as of Travis Fredrick over Shariff Floyd, and Taco Charleton over TJ Watt. i never forget the look on the faces of Garrett and Ciskowski
in the War Room when the move down in the 1st round were announced. (Cowboys moved down a couple of so notches before eventually selecting Fredrick)
And of course, we all are very well familiar with the debacle with Taco over TJ Watt.
 
G2

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Staggering the number of fans here crapping on the guy. You guys realize he doesn't train and coach, right?
 
quickccc

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And it's not just about the NFL draft with McClay. He also responsible for acquisitions trades, pouched practice squad players
and recommended free agent players.

Frankly anything that has to do with acquiring talent and talent-related, he is responsible for. i'm sure he refers the talent review and recommendation over to
the Jones, as they have to be involved in the draft pick transactions, trade compensations and cap structure.

Its been hit and miss - just as he's responsible for the finding of a Blake Jarwin (undrafted) ..or pouched players of a practice squad ( ala David Irving)
WR Randall Cobb, C Joe Looney, ..the bust acquisitions tend to come with it as well DT Cedric Thorton, CB Nolan Carroll, DE Benson Mayowa,
and FB Jamale Olawele.etc.

Unfortunately his acquisitions cases also involved in the coaches philosophies and recommendations, that's when i believe Marinelli 's own
prototypes and preferences tend to comes in.
Thus the bargain based lowly regarded 1 techs.such as Paea, Ashe,Woods,McClain ...and the rest remains history.
 
eromeopolk

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xwalker said:
The roster increased in talent starting in 2013/2014 while going from a completely maxed out cap situation to a very good cap situation (i.e. Better talent while paying less).

McClay does the dirty work and sets up the draft board. He tries to avoid changing the rankings based on character or medical issues. He highlights those as issues and he has a presentation ready for each play on draft day such that everyone can review the issues with the player. The final decision is made by Stephen Jones (since 2013/2014). They had similar rankings on Taco and TJ Watt with Watt above Taco in terms of talent ranking. Stephen was influenced by Marinelli on picking Taco but again the talent rankings were similar on the Cowboys board. The biggest issue with Taco turned out to be personality/character. They knew he had some issues in that area but the didn't give it enough focus. There is still no proof that Taco does not have the required talent. Watt has a huge edge in mental-makeup and plays in a different scheme. If Taco were to get "right with ball", physically he and DLaw when each was drafted had similar physical ability (Taco probably had more). DLaw worked hard in the weight room with the Cowboys and surpassed Taco but Taco is still young and could do something with the right coaches (Michael Bennett didn't wow many people early in his career).

We barely know anything about Hill other than what everyone knew at draft time which was that he had talent but needed more time to develop than some other players. If he was a ready-now player he would have been a 1st round pick with his physical talent (310 pound DTs that move like a DE but have the ability to play 1tech or 3tech get drafted early is they don't have some issue pushing them down draft boards. Contrary to internet gossip, Hill did NOT have behavior problems in college and both college coaching staffs considered him to have a high motor. He did have an issue because the new HC would not let him transfer. He loved the 1st coaching staff and did not like it when the new coaching staff said the previous coaching staff was all wrong in how they coached him. He continued to play more like the original staff had coached him. He was a 3-4 NT with that staff and focus on stopping the run. The new staff were the college version of Marinelli and wanted him to pass rush even if it meant not playing great run defense.

FYI, Hill was already know to be a guy that would take time to develop. Then Marinelli had him practice only at 3tech in the preseason and training camp. Once Hill played in real games, they used him at 1tech, not the 3tech position that he had practiced all off-season. They did it because of injuries at 1tech. They could have had M.Collins play more 1tech which he had done in 2017, but instead they just threw Hill in at 1tech. The game film (All-22) was not bad from a physical perspective; however, Hill did look lost at times and would get out of position against zone blocking. Any DL that gets out of position vs zone blocking will look silly because the OL catch the DL moving sideways and the DL has no leverage if the OL catch them just right, especially if it's a double-team.

We as fans don't have access to the medical info on Vander Esch. The Cowboys have highly regarded Doctor's on consulting contracts. From a talent perspective they had a great assessment on Vander Esch.

Randy Gregory was the pick since 2013 that was most influenced by Jerry. Gregory was on the phone directly with Jerry multiple times during the draft. McClay had Gregory ranking very high (pardon the pun) from a talent perspective. It's up to Stephen Jones and Jerry to decide if the risk is worth it on a player like Gregory or Jaylon for a different reason. I doubt if McClay would draft either if he were a normal GM because those picks get GMs fired if they don't pan out.
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You are correct. However, when drafting players, the biggest thing is Jerry the Dumbo GM Jones likes to draft on the Walmart clearance isle. It looks good because its cheap so take the risk. Gregory, Lee, Smith, Lawrence, and Carter all were 1st round talent players with risk issues of being unreliable (behavior) or unavailable (injuries). The problem is you waste time and break up team continuity with these players in and out the line up because of being unreliable and unavailable. You also do not replace them quick enough in the draft hoping they comeback.

The opposite is the example of Randy White who played 6 straight years with Harvey Martin on his right shoulder, 10 years with Too Tall Jones one player away off his left shoulder. Think about the defensive roster changes after Parcells quit the Jerry Jones circus. There is roster turn over to keep talent but you draft reliable and available players so you can have like New England a Seymore, McGinnest Vabrel era, a Wilfork,Mayo, Ninkovich, and a Hightower, Brown, McCourty era.

Drafting unreliable, unavailable, and a revolving door turnover roster is the reason that the defense has not reached Doomsday in Dallas level. Offense scores points, run to win, and defense wins championships.
 
quickccc

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basel90 said:
certainly alarming to have him push for Taco
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Maybe just me, but not only do i believe McClay was heavily influenced by Marinelli and McClay wanted to best support his DC to the
most preferred prototype Marinelli wanted to get,..but McClay also panicked in thinking he has to draft that edge DE in the first
round as he would not get another chance to get that DE with their 2nd round pick.
All in tell, the Cowboys initially had Taco touted as a 2nd round pick, not a 1st round.

- what still also puzzled me to this very day, with the taco pick was the film game tape of Taco, and the supposed " quick twitch" preference of marinelli
for players quick off the snap of the ball, great get off's. Taco was actually slow off the snap and somewhat lumbersome and mechanical.
Besides passing over TJ Watt who has clearly become one of the premiere defensive players in NFL, that's all the more reason why i hated the pick.

- To add even more to the confusion (and frustration) of all, much was insistence that Taco was more the prototype,.while TJ Watt was not the prototype/ and
fit-scheme preference for Marinelli's DE.
Yet we didn't hesitate to draft a 237 pound Randy Gregory (who was 15 pounds lighter as Watt) and groom him as a DE ?
 
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