How often does a legal reclamation player work out?

big dog cowboy

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Bobhaze

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Legal problems were mostly swept under the rug back than. Hollywood leads the list, but there were many back then. Problems at home were kept at home and shushed if they came out.
No doubt. Hollywood and Lance Rentzel, maybe Harvey Martin were examples of off field field hidden behavior kept under the rug back in those days.
 

RodeoJake

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Well....serious question- which players did I leave out that had legal problems and worked out here?

With all due respect, it seems you're missing the point. If he hasn't turned a corner or doesn't have it anymore, he'll be let go. If he has turned his life around and can contribute, he stays. Does he not deserve a chance to redeem himself? In reality, the team isn't taking any risk. Sure, he might be taking a spot that might go to an undrafted free agent that has no shot at making the team. Is that a bad thing?
 

montgod

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Brandon Marshall
Randy Moss
Dez
Von Miller
Ray Lewis
Adrian Peterson
Aqib Talib
Santonio Holmes
Matt Prater

There is a massive list of guys who have had legal issues.

If the issue was caused by bi-polar then later success depend son taking proper meds for it.
If it was a substance abuse issue than getting help and dealing with that matters.

Injury, age, salary, personal demons, character are all legit reasons why guys are signing cheap make good deals.
It's a risk you are going to take as you try to win games with a salary cap where price per pound matters more than anything else.

If you don't like Aldon Smith it seems the smart thing to do is just shut up about him altogether.
There's a 20-25% chance he never plays a down for Dallas.
Agreed! There are so many out there, just to add to the list for significance:

Lawrence Taylor
Donte Stallworth
Darrell Russell
Albert Haynesworth
Michael Vick
Darren Sharper
Santonio Holmes
Leonard Little
...
Oh and since we are bringing legal issues up, Dak Prescott who was found guilty of DUI before the draft. :rolleyes:
 
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Redball Express

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Looking at the history of the Dallas Cowboys under Jerry Jones, there have been more than a few times Jerry rolled the dice on a player who had major legal problems that caused them to either be suspended or even sit out a year (or more) from the NFL.

Before getting into the names of past examples, let’s take Charles Haley And TO off this list. Sure Haley was “troubled” and considered a pain to work with. But he was never banned from the league for an arrest for off field behavior. He was obtained in a trade from the niners in ‘92, and despite being difficult in the locker room at times was a huge reason the Cowboys won those SBs in the 90s. But never compare Charles Haley’s situation or behavior to someone like Aldon Smith.

And Terrell Owens? Sure he eventually became a locker room cancer, but he was not a guy getting arrested and suspended from the league like the guys we’re about to list. Haley and TO we’re difficult but they weren’t guys with a long rap sheet.

So now we can talk about the guys this organization has taken in as “Reclamation projects”. Players who have had major legal or substance problems causing them to miss games due to suspension- some even for a full season or more. Here are some of the names I could remember:
  • Ryan Leaf-
  • Tank Johnson
  • Alonzo Spellman
  • Dimitrius Underwood
  • PacMan Jones-
  • Josh Brent-
  • Rolondo McLain
  • David Irving-
  • Randy Gregory- I actually like this kid and think he still has a chance. He’s tested positive for weed several times but no arrests for DV or other things besides weed.
  • Greg Hardy
  • Aldon Smith- at least 6 arrests including domestic violence, making a terroristic threat at LAX, and multiple DWIs.
I’m sure I’ve forgotten some names. How many of these guys were “worth it” and made major contributions to our success, especially in the playoffs? You could possibly argue that Irving and Ro McClain were contributors, but they were so unreliable, you couldn’t count on them being there for long stretches.

So out of that list...maybe two guys...occasionally helped us win. Please don’t say I’m saying we only need “choir boys”. Of course we have and will always have some troubled players. But isn’t there at least some line that can’t be crossed?

Tell me again why this organization keeps doing this stuff? It can’t be because it has worked so well in the past.
Uh..

You still want to smear the team over this?

I posted yesterday, the whole BODs voted yes on this..

Let's go over the roll call..

Jerrah
Stephen
Will Clay
McCarthy
Tom Landry (Plastic Man)
Texas Schramm (DCC inventor)
Duwain Thomas (SB MVP '72)
Lance Rentzel (indecent exposure specialist)
PT Barnam (Greatest Show On Earth)

These guys like Thomas playing for us as it's great drama. We thrive on drama.

You miss the part of Pro football that is the most compelling. What sells tickets. What increases viewership.

A story. A saga. A moral lesson.

So go on with your bad self.

:laugh:
 

Stash

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No worries brother. I’m strike out plenty of times!!!

You're a good egg. And don't take this to mean that you should stop writing and contributing what you do. Like I said, I love your work.
:thumbup:
 

gimmesix

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History shows players with legal problems in their recent background have a less than 10% chance they will play well or for very long. So it’s extremely doubtful.

Richie Incognito was a 16-game starter for three years in Buffalo after being suspended for half a year by Miami in 2013 for misconduct and then not playing in 2014. His first year back, he made the Pro Bowl for the second time. He's now with Las Vegas.

Michael Vick had his best seasons ratingwise after coming back from two years off and a prison stint. He had never had better than an 81.6 rating before the suspension. After a year spent mostly in reserve, he had a 100.2 as a 12-game starter.

As someone else mentioned, Adam Jones, when he finally got things turned around, went on to have pretty good success with Cincinnati as a nickel corner and starter. He came to us after missing 2007, played decently but continued to be troubled and then went to the Bengals after missing 2009. He played nine seasons after 2009.

These are just some players I found who have served suspensions, missing a year or more, and came back and played well once they got their life on a better track. I'm sure I could find other examples if I had time to do the research. (This took me about five minutes.)

Limiting this to players Dallas has signed provides only a small, questionable sample group. Only a couple of those players could be seen as being really good or consistently good before they were suspended. Most were low-cost fliers.
 

aikemirv

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If he has really changed his life I am all for a comeback from him. Have no problem giving someone a second chance if he is truly reformed. Does not really matter what profession he is in. If he turned his life around and uses the renewed platform to help others then there is no better platform than the NFL to make a difference to people who may be starting down that path. Some of the best testimonies/stories/lessons which make a difference are from those who have experienced it
 

Future

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Independent of how relevant this is, I think this is an interesting exercise. Imagine how differently guys in the 90s would be thought of, if viewed through today's lense.

There's really not much difference between Randy Gregory and, say, Mark Stepnoski, but boy are they viewed in a different light. Kind of a perspective worth considering.
 

basel90

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Looking at the history of the Dallas Cowboys under Jerry Jones, there have been more than a few times Jerry rolled the dice on a player who had major legal problems that caused them to either be suspended or even sit out a year (or more) from the NFL.

Before getting into the names of past examples, let’s take Charles Haley And TO off this list. Sure Haley was “troubled” and considered a pain to work with. But he was never banned from the league for an arrest for off field behavior. He was obtained in a trade from the niners in ‘92, and despite being difficult in the locker room at times was a huge reason the Cowboys won those SBs in the 90s. But never compare Charles Haley’s situation or behavior to someone like Aldon Smith.

And Terrell Owens? Sure he eventually became a locker room cancer, but he was not a guy getting arrested and suspended from the league like the guys we’re about to list. Haley and TO we’re difficult but they weren’t guys with a long rap sheet.

So now we can talk about the guys this organization has taken in as “Reclamation projects”. Players who have had major legal or substance problems causing them to miss games due to suspension- some even for a full season or more. Here are some of the names I could remember:
  • Ryan Leaf-
  • Tank Johnson
  • Alonzo Spellman
  • Dimitrius Underwood
  • PacMan Jones-
  • Josh Brent-
  • Rolondo McLain
  • David Irving-
  • Randy Gregory- I actually like this kid and think he still has a chance. He’s tested positive for weed several times but no arrests for DV or other things besides weed.
  • Greg Hardy
  • Aldon Smith- at least 6 arrests including domestic violence, making a terroristic threat at LAX, and multiple DWIs.
I’m sure I’ve forgotten some names. How many of these guys were “worth it” and made major contributions to our success, especially in the playoffs? You could possibly argue that Irving and Ro McClain were contributors, but they were so unreliable, you couldn’t count on them being there for long stretches.

So out of that list...maybe two guys...occasionally helped us win. Please don’t say I’m saying we only need “choir boys”. Of course we have and will always have some troubled players. But isn’t there at least some line that can’t be crossed?

Tell me again why this organization keeps doing this stuff? It can’t be because it has worked so well in the past.
Out of the liar I would say only 20% only had any real value . Is it worth it ?
 

Kaiser

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No, he just exposed himself to female reporters, threatened or assaulted anyone who didn't do what he wanted, and commit all manner of vile and degrading deed. But hey he was never held responsible so that is okay in your book..

There are also versions of the story where he put his helmet through a wall when Emmitt Smith was holding out that involve Jerry being in fear for his life, but I don't think we have a definitive account of what happened.
 

Kaiser

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There's really not much difference between Randy Gregory and, say, Mark Stepnoski, but boy are they viewed in a different light. Kind of a perspective worth considering.

And between sports, Randy Gregory on his worst bender would be a normal day for some NBA players.
 

Kaiser

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Ro saved our butts when Lee went down for the year and totally changed around our defense. In that Seattle game he was an enforcer.

I might also add Gregory year before last as he played outstanding.

I think Rolondo McClain is exactly the right example. He cost nothing in picks and salary but gave us one really good year, one OK one and then was gone. Aldon Smith doesn't have to get 20 sacks to make this into a successful move.
 

Aven8

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I think Rolondo McClain is exactly the right example. He cost nothing in picks and salary but gave us one really good year, one OK one and then was gone. Aldon Smith doesn't have to get 20 sacks to make this into a successful move.

I don’t even know what the gripe is about him? No guaranteed salary at all. The other side of that coin is he gives you 8-10 sacks and still cost nothing.
 

Kaiser

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I don’t even know what the gripe is about him? No guaranteed salary at all. The other side of that coin is he gives you 8-10 sacks and still cost nothing.

From a football standpoint, absolutely. Bob's point is that you don't want thugs who beat women on the team and I agree 100%.

But every DV situation with Smith apparently involved Smith being falling down drunk. That is a lot different than Giants Kicker Josh Brown, who beat his wife over and over again and admitted to it. That case is why the Zeke Elliot suspension was such a joke, Brown was such a dirtbag that NFL security employees had to physically step in and move his wife away from him because he was beating her. That got a one game suspension (until they suspended Zeke for 8, so they retroactively applied it to Brown after he was out of the NFL).

The question on Aldon Smith is whether he really has recovered from his substance abuse issues.
 

Aven8

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From a football standpoint, absolutely. Bob's point is that you don't want thugs who beat women on the team and I agree 100%.

But every DV situation with Smith apparently involved Smith being falling down drunk. That is a lot different than Giants Kicker Josh Brown, who beat his wife over and over again and admitted to it. That case is why the Zeke Elliot suspension was such a joke, Brown was such a dirtbag that NFL security employees had to physically step in and move his wife away from him because he was beating her. That got a one game suspension (until they suspended Zeke for 8, so they retroactively applied it to Brown after he was out of the NFL).

The question on Aldon Smith is whether he really has recovered from his substance abuse issues.

Well if he hasn’t? No loss.
 
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