Why WR at 17 is a no go with Dane Brugler mock

Typhus

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Trade down makes sense in some scenarios, but again, if Jeudy is sitting there, for example, I think it would be foolish to pass on him in a trade down.
Im not jumping you,,, just the general thought that the option to actually trade down is or has been ever so readily available.
Seems to be the option B if option A doesn't work,,,, that's why you better be damn sure you got option A right.
 

KingintheNorth

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Now let's talk Dane Brugler. (BUY HIS GUIDE!!)
He is essentially the best guy doing this stuff now.
Far better than the Espy guys who have mailed it in for years now.

Love Dane, good dude, and agree that he is criminally underrated.

So what does Dane project DAL to do in his Mar 4 three round mock?

17. Dallas Cowboys – C.J. Henderson, CB, Florida (rated his CB2)
51. Dallas Cowboys – Justin Madubuike, DT, Texas A&M (rated his DL2)
82. Dallas Cowboys – Malik Harrison, LB, Ohio State (rated his LB8)
(Dane knows DAL FO guys and you can see that reflected in his mock. Heavy big school powerhouse choices here; Defensive rebuild focus)

I don't dislike Harrison but we have so many bigger needs and he doesn't wow me enough to make me disregard those bigger needs.

Available at 51.
62. Green Bay Packers – Chase Claypool, WR, Notre Dame
64. Seattle Seahawks – KJ Hamler, WR, Penn State

I would take Claypool or Hamler over Madubuike.

SMU WR James Proche
One of my players is at SMU and I spent a few days on campus last season and then drove to Houston to watch them play. I got to see Proche a lot and he's a sneaky good WR. I think he'd be great 3rd WR for us. Velcro for hands and such great feet. Watching him running routes I felt he was a faster, more athletic Cole Beasley (and I wasn't even associating Beasley as a former Mustang).

There is zero reason to overdraft a WR this year.

This is where I disagree with you. If our board is wiped out (can easily happen at 17 and has recently happened to us) AND if we can't get a fair deal in a trade down (consistently happens to us) AND 1 of the big 3 WRs is there, you take him without blinking. All 3 of those guys are difference makers.
 

LatinMind

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I'm admittedly not sure why this has gained steam as a concept.

DAL is a team with like 5/6 questionable 'starting' spots. (OC, SS, DT3, RDE, CB1/2, TE. Of those, WR3 plays the least snaps.

And WR3 was manned by a top 5 WR3 last year. Cobb produced significantly but this team didn't feel it was worth 9m a year. (Smartly, imho). So it now worth pick 17? Your only pick in the top 50 and hopefully your only top 20 pick in the next 2-3 seasons???
Naw fam.

But 17 looks like BPA may be a WR?? It does. So does rounds 2-5 FWIW.
Teams generally don't grade dudes 1-125. DAL has graded them in areas. Elite, R1, R1/R2, R2, R2/3 et al.
Then you can play with them in an are to get to a specific number. I.E. this player was out 5th ranked player....
But if he wasn't elite... and 4 were. And 15 guys were R1... he is essentially just the same as 5-19. Splitting hairs area.


But when pick 51 comes around you may only have 1 or 2 R2 rated guys left. (The team seldom has even 20 guys rated R1 and def seldom had 50+ rated R2 or higher. So now you have say RB rated R1, a WR rated R1 and a DT rated R2/R3 to choose from. RB isn't a realistic option. Not just because of Zeke but Pollard and your positional value here is simply low. So that kinda leaves a WR(say maybe local kids Jaylon Reagor or Denzel Mims) or a DT like also local kid Justin Madubuike. Round 2 is now a really tough call.

Now let's talk Dane Brugler. (BUY HIS GUIDE!!)
He is essentially the best guy doing this stuff now.
Far better than the Espy guys who have mailed it in for years now.

His WR rankings have 4 legit R1 guys.
2 more R1/R2
5 more R2

He has TWENTY-SIX players rated through R4/R5.
That's A LOT.

Compare.

RB: 13
DL: 15
OL: 15 OT, 6 OG, 5 OC so same 26 TOTAL OL as just WR.
S: 11 but none R1 or even R1/R2.

19 CB suggest it is also a deep group.

So what does Dane project DAL to do in his Mar 4 three round mock?

17. Dallas Cowboys – C.J. Henderson, CB, Florida (rated his CB2)
51. Dallas Cowboys – Justin Madubuike, DT, Texas A&M (rated his DL2)
82. Dallas Cowboys – Malik Harrison, LB, Ohio State (rated his LB8)
(Dane knows DAL FO guys and you can see that reflected in his mock. Heavy big school powerhouse choices here; Defensive rebuild focus)

What about WR?
Available at 17.
21 Pit of Despair - Brandon Aiyuk, WR, Arizona State
22. Buffalo Bills – Justin Jefferson, WR, LSU

Available at 51.
60. Baltimore Ravens – Laviska Shenault, WR, Colorado --Dallas kid BTW.
62. Green Bay Packers – Chase Claypool, WR, Notre Dame
64. Seattle Seahawks – KJ Hamler, WR, Penn State

Available at 82.
88. New Orleans Saints – Antonio Gandy-Golden, WR, Liberty
89. Minnesota Vikings – Gabriel Davis, WR, UCF
90. Cleveland Browns (via HOU) – Bryan Edwards, WR, South Carolina

So you enter Round 4 now
drafted CB2, DL2, LB8....
and with THIRTEEN more WRs rated at least R4/R5.
R4 options include UT's combo of Collin Johnson and Devin Duvernay, Dallas and SMU WR James Proche, and Boise State Wr John Hightower who has eerily Gallup-like numbers.
And 9 other guys who'd be a decent or better value.

There is zero reason to overdraft a WR this year.
You have a 20M WR1, a big play monster at WR2 and plenty of ST/depth WR.
A R4 or R5 WR could come in and lead that group of back ups with starting upside.

None of that draft depth even touches on the fact WR is the only position where talent like Dez Bryant and Antonio Brown sits unsigned.
Brugler is so far off base with the team right now. Because he's basing this off what the team did last yr. McCarthy's offense runs alot of 3 WR sets which makes WR a big need.

Not to mention Aiyuk just had core muscle surgery so he's going to be out for awhile. And will probably be on the PUP. So it wouldnt suprise me if he slid to the top of round 2.

CJ Henderson is not going to be there at 17. Theres even talk about him being a top 10 pick now. I dont see that but theres enough talk that most likely he will not be there by the time the Cowboys pick.
 

Typhus

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I hope Dane is right. I like a draft heavy on Defense. I also like the LB early because I have zero faith in the 2 clowns they have there now.
I wouldn't go that far as depletion of talent at LB on this current roster.
Not saying you would ignore it in this draft,, take a solid OLB, there will be some hovering mid rounds in this draft.
Wouldn't be against it, but their will be better options of other positions of need, that have superior talent the available LBs in this draft,, if we are just talking RD1.
 

Typhus

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Fair take and I get the premise.
In a sense, I even agree.
I would never reach for a SPECIFIC position.
But I would definitely move certain positions down.
And I need a plan for any kid I draft day 1 or 2.
I'm not just going go hope talent rises but instead know how I plan to use a kid I draft that high.

Keep in mind at pick 17 you are going to be guaranteeing a guy over 8M.
Not only is that more than twice what you pay Gallup over 4 years it is 7M more than you pay him this year.

In ATL they cut WR2 after a year and promoted Ridley.
What do you do with Cooper. Gallup and say Lamb next off-season?
I mean WRs are never divas and have issues sharing targets or anything
:)

It gets dynamic, if the FO is looking at really big contracts,, just saying that just because this FO payed out Cooper, and we already have existing quality WR2 in Gallup,, that doesn't mean to me that we pass on a Henry Ruggs if hes sitting there.. don't know,, gets really interesting if your looking at Ruggs and Kinlaw still there,, that's a choice.
Don't want to start getting too cute and think you can just trade back, unless you got a really sweet offer, and the value is really worth it..
Because evaluating this draft and its got nice quality depth, but about pick 15 it starts to break a bit.
This is that classic position we always seem to be in,, just one slip up, error, reach,, and we get an option, a very solid option.
 
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quickccc

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Devin Duvernay in the 4th round would be a steal and I would be very happy

but my question with Duvernay is his skill set and make up suited for a slot role ?
he seems more like a straight line guy, and\more operational as an outside guy than inside slot with the necessary shifty stop and re-start change of direction
that i'm used to seeing the top slot guys like beasley Cobb, emanuel sanders, etc.

Seems to have the 4.4 speed to get over the top but what about the rest of his receivng game ?
Plus i'm not seeing Duvernay's game as a punt returner - and we're needing that area immediately.
 

quickccc

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To flesh out Dane's draft with my own completion.
Round 4, Pick 123 -- KJ Hill WR. Ohio State.
Hill started in the slot and ended up the career receptions leader at OSU.
Very ordinary athleticism by OSU standards but a mature player with great hands and excellent quickness inside.
Dane "Overall, Hill possesses only average size, strength and long speed, but he has terrific ball skills and consistently makes himself available to his quarterback, projecting as a possession slot option in the NFL."

Round 5, Pick 167 -- JR Reed, Safety, Georgia.
Reed falls because he is an older prospect having both transferred and gray shirted.
NFL legacy whose Dad played with Moss and Carter in that WR crazy Vikes program.
He is also from Ft. Worth and played his HS ball at Prestonwood a few minutes away from where The Star is now.
Dane's take: Overall, Reed has the closing speed, smarts and professional makeup that will intrigue NFL teams, but he is an over-aged prospect with poor length and play strength, projecting as a possible backup.

Round 5, Pick 179 -- DALTON KEENE TE Virginia Tech

Keene is an actual H-Back and had all of 1 career drop. 4.71 40 time is legit and he is a willing if not plus blocker. At 6'4" and 250 is the new prototype imho.
Dane's take: Overall, Keene doesn’t have a difference-making trait, but his athletic ability, competitive nature and roster flexibility are appealing traits, projecting as a versatile H-Back option.

Round 7, Pick 231 -- DeeJay Dallas
Dallas is a WR convert who at 5'10" 217 is built like a RB. He is an excellent blocker who has some similarities with Pollard.
Was a team captain who was not overworked in college with best days ahead of him in pros. Has ability to help on special teams with good power and good hands.

thanks for sharing .... with Dane's mock draft here, i would have liked a developmental OT consideration out of this as it's supposed to be a solid year for OTs
and is a raw developmental QB in the Cowboys plans for mid to late considerations ?
but i am very down for a slot WR consideration guy and a green athletic TE/ H- back type that could challenge Schultzs' roster role and give us a receiving threat in case Jarwin gets injured ?
 

Cowboysheelsreds053

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Love Dane, good dude, and agree that he is criminally underrated.



I don't dislike Harrison but we have so many bigger needs and he doesn't wow me enough to make me disregard those bigger needs.



I would take Claypool or Hamler over Madubuike.


One of my players is at SMU and I spent a few days on campus last season and then drove to Houston to watch them play. I got to see Proche a lot and he's a sneaky good WR. I think he'd be great 3rd WR for us. Velcro for hands and such great feet. Watching him running routes I felt he was a faster, more athletic Cole Beasley (and I wasn't even associating Beasley as a former Mustang).



This is where I disagree with you. If our board is wiped out (can easily happen at 17 and has recently happened to us) AND if we can't get a fair deal in a trade down (consistently happens to us) AND 1 of the big 3 WRs is there, you take him without blinking. All 3 of those guys are difference makers.

This, if everything is wiped out on the D side and one of those receivers are there, you get that pick in ASAP. That player would be rated higher than anybody else on your board that is left.
 

blueblood70

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I'm admittedly not sure why this has gained steam as a concept.

DAL is a team with like 5/6 questionable 'starting' spots. (OC, SS, DT3, RDE, CB1/2, TE. Of those, WR3 plays the least snaps.

And WR3 was manned by a top 5 WR3 last year. Cobb produced significantly but this team didn't feel it was worth 9m a year. (Smartly, imho). So it now worth pick 17? Your only pick in the top 50 and hopefully your only top 20 pick in the next 2-3 seasons???
Naw fam.

But 17 looks like BPA may be a WR?? It does. So does rounds 2-5 FWIW.
Teams generally don't grade dudes 1-125. DAL has graded them in areas. Elite, R1, R1/R2, R2, R2/3 et al.
Then you can play with them in an are to get to a specific number. I.E. this player was out 5th ranked player....
But if he wasn't elite... and 4 were. And 15 guys were R1... he is essentially just the same as 5-19. Splitting hairs area.


But when pick 51 comes around you may only have 1 or 2 R2 rated guys left. (The team seldom has even 20 guys rated R1 and def seldom had 50+ rated R2 or higher. So now you have say RB rated R1, a WR rated R1 and a DT rated R2/R3 to choose from. RB isn't a realistic option. Not just because of Zeke but Pollard and your positional value here is simply low. So that kinda leaves a WR(say maybe local kids Jaylon Reagor or Denzel Mims) or a DT like also local kid Justin Madubuike. Round 2 is now a really tough call.

Now let's talk Dane Brugler. (BUY HIS GUIDE!!)
He is essentially the best guy doing this stuff now.
Far better than the Espy guys who have mailed it in for years now.

His WR rankings have 4 legit R1 guys.
2 more R1/R2
5 more R2

He has TWENTY-SIX players rated through R4/R5.
That's A LOT.

Compare.

RB: 13
DL: 15
OL: 15 OT, 6 OG, 5 OC so same 26 TOTAL OL as just WR.
S: 11 but none R1 or even R1/R2.

19 CB suggest it is also a deep group.

So what does Dane project DAL to do in his Mar 4 three round mock?

17. Dallas Cowboys – C.J. Henderson, CB, Florida (rated his CB2)
51. Dallas Cowboys – Justin Madubuike, DT, Texas A&M (rated his DL2)
82. Dallas Cowboys – Malik Harrison, LB, Ohio State (rated his LB8)
(Dane knows DAL FO guys and you can see that reflected in his mock. Heavy big school powerhouse choices here; Defensive rebuild focus)

What about WR?
Available at 17.
21 Pit of Despair - Brandon Aiyuk, WR, Arizona State
22. Buffalo Bills – Justin Jefferson, WR, LSU

Available at 51.
60. Baltimore Ravens – Laviska Shenault, WR, Colorado --Dallas kid BTW.
62. Green Bay Packers – Chase Claypool, WR, Notre Dame
64. Seattle Seahawks – KJ Hamler, WR, Penn State

Available at 82.
88. New Orleans Saints – Antonio Gandy-Golden, WR, Liberty
89. Minnesota Vikings – Gabriel Davis, WR, UCF
90. Cleveland Browns (via HOU) – Bryan Edwards, WR, South Carolina

So you enter Round 4 now
drafted CB2, DL2, LB8....
and with THIRTEEN more WRs rated at least R4/R5.
R4 options include UT's combo of Collin Johnson and Devin Duvernay, Dallas and SMU WR James Proche, and Boise State Wr John Hightower who has eerily Gallup-like numbers.
And 9 other guys who'd be a decent or better value.

There is zero reason to overdraft a WR this year.
You have a 20M WR1, a big play monster at WR2 and plenty of ST/depth WR.
A R4 or R5 WR could come in and lead that group of back ups with starting upside.

None of that draft depth even touches on the fact WR is the only position where talent like Dez Bryant and Antonio Brown sits unsigned.
most in here have said that and there are already threads on it..we most likely grab a WR3 for slot etc in 3rd round. there nearly no scenario where we take one in the first
 

ChuckA1

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So what does Dane project DAL to do in his Mar 4 three round mock?

17. Dallas Cowboys – C.J. Henderson, CB, Florida (rated his CB2)
51. Dallas Cowboys – Justin Madubuike, DT, Texas A&M (rated his DL2)
82. Dallas Cowboys – Malik Harrison, LB, Ohio State (rated his LB8)


Although I would like a DT with the first pick, this draft isn't bad, at all. The only question I have is the lack of a DE with one of the first three picks, unless they are VERY confident Smith and Gregory with be available. .
 

Whyjerry

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I wouldn't go that far as depletion of talent at LB on this current roster.
Not saying you would ignore it in this draft,, take a solid OLB, there will be some hovering mid rounds in this draft.
Wouldn't be against it, but their will be better options of other positions of need, that have superior talent the available LBs in this draft,, if we are just talking RD1.

To be clear I am not saying Rd 1. DL and secondary are bigger needs. I am just saying they need a top half of the draft LB that can play. Smith is a clown. LVE is a huge question mark and dropped off a ton last year. Lee is old and has injury histories. They need someone reliable at LB.
 

JBell

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To be clear I am not saying Rd 1. DL and secondary are bigger needs. I am just saying they need a top half of the draft LB that can play. Smith is a clown. LVE is a huge question mark and dropped off a ton last year. Lee is old and has injury histories. They need someone reliable at LB.
LB is pretty far down the list in terms of needs.

Only two LB's see the field for the majority of snaps. That's LVE and Jaylon, regardless of what you think of them. They're not due to be UFA's until 2023 and 2025. Lee and Thomas are adequate backups.
 

Little Jr

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If Lamb or Jeudy is on the board at 17, which I dont think they will be, Id take one.
 

Whyjerry

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LB is pretty far down the list in terms of needs.

Only two LB's see the field for the majority of snaps. That's LVE and Jaylon, regardless of what you think of them. They're not due to be UFA's until 2023 and 2025. Lee and Thomas are adequate backups.

Ok how about this - one guy has a degenerative neck injury and the other guy has the football IQ of a goldfish. Relying on those 2 guys to play 16 solid games is foolish. Talent is there but both carry big risk.
 

JBell

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Ok how about this - one guy has a degenerative neck injury and the other guy has the football IQ of a goldfish. Relying on those 2 guys to play 16 solid games is foolish. Talent is there but both carry big risk.
Lmao.

Valid points. I’m just not a fan of spending day 1/2 picks on an insurance policy.
 

Sydla

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Ok how about this - one guy has a degenerative neck injury and the other guy has the football IQ of a goldfish. Relying on those 2 guys to play 16 solid games is foolish. Talent is there but both carry big risk.

I often ask this and don't often get responses. What's the proof that backs up the claim he's some kind of football idiot out there? I mean I get criticizing him for maybe having bad instincts, or that he's clearly not as mobile as he was prior to injury, or that even that he's kind of soft in that he likes to avoid and try to run around blockers than take them on, or that he's just a goofy guy.......... but where's the proof that he's some sort of football idiot?
 

Whyjerry

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Lmao.

Valid points. I’m just not a fan of spending day 1/2 picks on an insurance policy.

I agree. The old salty drunken GM has set it up so neatly the entire secondary is up for grabs next season. A totally moronic thing but hey it’s Jerry. They need to invest 2 of the top 3 picks there in my opinion. How about a LB at 4? Maybe one that won’t go to KC and start and win a SB. That would be nice. LB is a sneaky area of need because Jerry has wasted high picks on unreliable guys there.
 

JBell

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This myth needs to die.

He called the defensive signals. Do you think a guy who is completely and utterly void of intelligence would be given that job? Call his instincts bad.Say he's clearly not as mobile as he was prior to the injury. Shoot, call him soft because he likes to run around blockers instead of engage.

But calling him stupid? LOL.
Instincts is built into your football IQ though.
 

Williamsboys

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The defense should be address first as we have a big weakess at cornerback, defensive end and another safety would be nice. Wide receivers can be had in the middle rounds as well as when teams start making their cuts. That is if the season even starts.
 
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