General thoughts on the draft

cowboyec said:

watch the games.
most saturdays he was the only one on that side of the ball making them.
he is 100% a play-maker.

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I've watched a fair amount of OU games and yes he makes an awful lot of tackles but that's all I see, a pass defended every 7 games played........I just cant at 17

unionjack8 said:

I've watched a fair amount of OU games and yes he makes an awful lot of tackles but that's all I see, a pass defended every 7 games played........I just cant at 17

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i think if Chaisson and Henderson are gone they are moving down and he is one of the targets.
we'll see.

cowboyec said:

i think if Chaisson and Henderson are gone they are moving down and he is one of the targets.
we'll see.

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Hes one of those prospects I REALLY want to like......

unionjack8 said:

Hes one of those prospects I REALLY want to like......

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if we get him...he'll become one of your favorites.

cnuball21 said:

What do you mean Smith could do the same thing?

Being a fast LBr doesn't make you good, I don't understand what you're getting at here.

Lee did not have that kind of speed...he ran a 4.7 which is almost below average for today's LBrs. He wins because of of his elite instincts.

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I don't really care for your tone, it is possible to have a discussion about the draft without trying to make the other person sound stupid. Having said that he could be a blitzing LB all three of them have shown that capability and they could make the offense try to tell which one was coming. But that's not the point I don't have to figure it out. I'm confident that if we had three linebackers with that kind of talent Edwards and Nolan could figure out a way to take advantage of it. Lee's exact 40 time isn't the point either I believe his " elite instincts" come from tireless film study. It's been reported many times that he calls out the play and gets it right. One thing I read on Murray was if he isn't in the weight room he's in the film room so he's no stranger to film study.

morasp said:

I don't really care for your tone, it is possible to have a discussion about the draft without trying to make the other person sound stupid. Having said that he could be a blitzing LB all three of them have shown that capability and they could make the offense try to tell which one was coming. But that's not the point I don't have to figure it out. I'm confident that if we had three linebackers with that kind of talent Edwards and Nolan could figure out a way to take advantage of it. Lee's exact 40 time isn't the point either I believe his " elite instincts" come from tireless film study. It's been reported many times that he calls out the play and gets it right. One thing I read on Murray was if he isn't in the weight room he's in the film room so he's no stranger to film study.

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Its been said of Murray he's the 1st in...and the last to leave.

small school CB I like...
Kindle Vildor,Georgia Southern

Agree with most on drafting BPA, I Don't know if Cowboys are picking LB at 17.. I like Murray's game and production at OU but Patrick Queen is the best linebacker in this draft and it's not even close.

I wonder if we will see some 3/4 looks under MM? If so we will need more linebackers.

cowboyec said:

K'Lavon Chaisson,DE-Lsu

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I would puke if we draft Chaisson. This has bust written all over it - guy has underachieve at the college level and is inconsistent. 2 qualities that do not transfer to the NFL well. He has the build & potential to be great. How many times have we heard that? He also had the potential to be great at college and got 6.5 sacks last year.

BigD_95 said:

I would puke if we draft Chaisson. This has bust written all over it - guy has underachieve at the college level and is inconsistent. 2 qualities that do not transfer to the NFL well. He has the build & potential to be great. How many times have we heard that? He also had the potential to be great at college and got 6.5 sacks last year.

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not me.
I'd be pretty damn happy.
helluva player.

BigD_95 said:

I would puke if we draft Chaisson. This has bust written all over it - guy has underachieve at the college level and is inconsistent. 2 qualities that do not transfer to the NFL well. He has the build & potential to be great. How many times have we heard that? He also had the potential to be great at college and got 6.5 sacks last year.

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I'd take a chance on busting for that type of talent.

I've said it before, but Chaisson reminds me of Vander Esch. LVE only had one year starting, struggled at the beginning of it, but clearly improved throughout the year and smoked Oregon in his bowl game. When he walked out onto an NFL field, it was clear that he was already way up the learning curve.

Chaisson heated up down the stretch too and obliterated Oklahoma. I think he's also just now hitting his stride as well. The risk that he's just a flash in the pan is baked into his draft stock, but if he went back to LSU and played at an Oklahoma level all year, then he'd be a top 5 pick in 2021. That's the bet you're taking.

Also, I don't think Kenneth Murray's instincts are as bad as people claim. He's not Sean Lee, but he's not Bruce Carter either. Murray's a very aggressive player on a not very talented defense, so he takes a ton of swings and naturally has some misses.

He reminds me of Devin White from last year - White was the same size, a step faster, and also a really active and violent player, but could be slow to diagnose. Tampa Bay took him top 5 on that combo of tools + aggressiveness, and after his head spun in coverage for the first half of the season, he became a real playmaker in the second half of the year.

beware_d-ware said:

I've said it before, but Chaisson reminds me of Vander Esch. LVE only had one year starting, struggled at the beginning of it, but clearly improved throughout the year and smoked Oregon in his bowl game. When he walked out onto an NFL field, it was clear that he was already way up the learning curve.

Chaisson heated up down the stretch too and obliterated Oklahoma. I think he's also just now hitting his stride as well. The risk that he's just a flash in the pan is baked into his draft stock, but if he went back to LSU and played at an Oklahoma level all year, then he'd be a top 5 pick in 2021. That's the bet you're taking.

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I feel the same way, he is just on the cusp of breaking out. The guy is only 20, has advance pass rush moves for a guy his age although they need refining the arsenal is full.
He is the type of edge rusher you bet on, and if you are right you have 10+ sacks per year and if you are wrong you have a really good LB.
The guy is very diverse reminds of Anthony Barr whom I feel like the Vikings gave up on too early as a pass rusher, but he is still a standout LB.

Moral of the story he has the tools to be very good.

Daygoboy6191 said:

I feel the same way, he is just on the cusp of breaking out. The guy is only 20, has advance pass rush moves for a guy his age although they need refining the arsenal is full.
He is the type of edge rusher you bet on, and if you are right you have 10+ sacks per year and if you are wrong you have a really good LB.
The guy is very diverse reminds of Anthony Barr whom I feel like the Vikings gave up on too early as a pass rusher, but he is still a standout LB.

Moral of the story he has the tools to be very good.

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LSU has some good football players coming out. Chaisson, Fulton, Delpit, Jeffferson will all be good NFL football players. Starters!

morasp said:

I don't really care for your tone, it is possible to have a discussion about the draft without trying to make the other person sound stupid. Having said that he could be a blitzing LB all three of them have shown that capability and they could make the offense try to tell which one was coming. But that's not the point I don't have to figure it out. I'm confident that if we had three linebackers with that kind of talent Edwards and Nolan could figure out a way to take advantage of it. Lee's exact 40 time isn't the point either I believe his " elite instincts" come from tireless film study. It's been reported many times that he calls out the play and gets it right. One thing I read on Murray was if he isn't in the weight room he's in the film room so he's no stranger to film study.

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No intent to have a “tone” so sorry if it came across that way I just didn’t understand what you were trying to explain.

Sure Murray is a good blitzer, but if the intent is for him to come in and be an off ball LBr I just don’t see where he fits in if LVE is good to go. LVE is a much better fit at MIKE and Jaylon is locked in at WILL I’m a huge contract so Murray would basically be a backup with how much nickel we play.

But Lee had good instincts as a prospect and it quickly translated to his play in the NFL. I don’t think it’s something he didn’t have and learned watching film. I think that will help Murray, but I don’t having good instincts is really coach able.

beware_d-ware said:

Also, I don't think Kenneth Murray's instincts are as bad as people claim. He's not Sean Lee, but he's not Bruce Carter either. Murray's a very aggressive player on a not very talented defense, so he takes a ton of swings and naturally has some misses.

He reminds me of Devin White from last year - White was the same size, a step faster, and also a really active and violent player, but could be slow to diagnose. Tampa Bay took him top 5 on that combo of tools + aggressiveness, and after his head spun in coverage for the first half of the season, he became a real playmaker in the second half of the year.

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White was taken early 1st round because on top of the athleticism he can do it all. Stout against the run, but also above average in pass coverage and pass rushing.

Instincts aside which I think are a big concern, his career completion percentage against in coverage was 84%.

I don’t think Murray is close to White as a prospect.

**Found some additional info on Murray’s coverage ability and better than I expected. Per PFF “Murray earned an 80.6 coverage grade in 2019, and he allowed fewer than 20 yards in coverage in all but three games.”

Definitely better at 2nd glance but the instincts still scare me.

cnuball21 said:

No intent to have a “tone” so sorry if it came across that way I just didn’t understand what you were trying to explain.

Sure Murray is a good blitzer, but if the intent is for him to come in and be an off ball LBr I just don’t see where he fits in if LVE is good to go. LVE is a much better fit at MIKE and Jaylon is locked in at WILL I’m a huge contract so Murray would basically be a backup with how much nickel we play.

But Lee had good instincts as a prospect and it quickly translated to his play in the NFL. I don’t think it’s something he didn’t have and learned watching film. I think that will help Murray, but I don’t having good instincts is really coach able.

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It doesn't seem like you're reading my responses so I'll answer once more and then just agree to disagree. You don't have to figure out where they play. Like I said before what the defense did in the past might not be what they do in the future especially if they have three linebackers that move like LVE, Smith, and Murray do. The bolded bullet in the draft profile that I posted said Murray moves like a safety in space. My opinion is that his lack of instincts might be overstated. NFL.com mentions it along with some others but it doesn't really sound like a chronic problem " While his twitchy burst allows him to make more plays than the average linebacker, he will overflow to ball-carriers at times". Someone posted a good film breakdown of Murray that showed what looked like very good instincts. He was the best player on a bad defense and it wouldn't surprise me if at times he tried to do too much. I completely disagree that instincts aren't learned. Lee probably learned good film study at Penn State who was known as LB U but I really don't think it's something he was born with. Mike Singletary wasn't an all pro MLB when he first started with the Bears but then he locked himself in a hotel room and did nothing but study film and transformed himself into a very good instinctual LB. It was a while ago and only High School but I was known as an instinctual LB and for me that meant poring over the scouting reports that we were given and trying to picture the formations in my mind. After High School one of my LB teammates who went to college on a football scholarship asked me how I always new what the play was. This is probably enough ones and zeros spent on a player that we probably won't even draft so to summarize I would prefer that Murray never overran a play and always made the tackle and there are players I would rather draft in round one but I don't think it takes him out of consideration as a possible draft pick.

Daygoboy6191 said:

I think based on the interviews the Cowboys are seriously considering a trade back scenario.

Heck if we can get enough trade capital and we are not interested in DE, trade out of the first round totally and gain draft picks. This years draft has a ton of talent in the 2nd and 3rd round if we can get a couple extra picks in those rounds we can add multiple early contributors to this draft and have plenty of draft capital next year with comp picks also. New coaching staff, allow them to build the team that fits their scheme.
If we can get 2 2nd round picks, 3 3rd round picks this year, and next year we should have at the very least based on comp predictions 2 3rds and 2 4ths you have 5 extra picks in the first 4 rounds. Thats how you combat all the contracts that will be hitting us next year and get more cap friendly.

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Just how many of those 2nd and 3rd round picks works out to be starters in Dallas? Not very many. Trading back to pick more players with less talent is a losing plan. If anything, trade up to get top talent instead of accumulating a bunch of players that will be lucky to make the roster.