What if? Potential 3-4 alignments

JBS · May 1, 2020

Aldon Smith as a 5T is a horrendous idea

thunderpimp91 · May 1, 2020

Running multiple fronts doesn't necissarily mean that you will see any 3-4 alignments. I honestly doubt that you will. Even Rod ran various fronts including a lot of 3 man lines, but never did a true 3-4. 70% of the snaps will most likely be out of the nickel/dime. I expect to see different variations on a 4-3, maybe some 3-3. This team is even well equipped for some 5 man fronts.

I could be wrong on this, but i doubt it. Your best players just dont fit the 3-4 as well. doesnt make sense to force it just so you can act smarter than the rest of the league.

xwalker · May 1, 2020

Jumbo075 said:
So, I know that Mike McCarthy has said that the Cowboys will have a base 4-3 defensive front. But it has also been discussed that Mike Nolan like running multiple fronts, and that they are considering moving Jaylon Smith to OLB, and have him rush the passer more often. Finally, I don't remember exactly when or where (so don't ask for a link), but I seem to recall rumors that the Cowboys will consider moving DE Jalen Jelks to OLB. Lastly, the Cowboys drafted Bradlee Anae, who is more than a little undersized at DE, but could be a better fit as a stand-up pass rusher in a 3-4 front.

If that happens, and if both Aldon Smith and Randy Gregory are reinstated, what do you think the Cowboys defense will look like when in a 3-4 front?

Some ideas:

3-4 Defensive Alignment Depth Chart
RDE 5-Tech - Aldon Smith, Tyrone Crawford
NT - Dontari Poe, Antwaun Woods, Neville Gallimore
LDE - 5-Tech - DeMarcus Lawrence, Joe Jackson

ROLB - Randy Gregory, Bradlee Anae
WILB - Sean Lee, Leighton Vander Esch
SILB - Leighton Vander Esch, Joe Thomas
SOLB - Jaylon Smith, Jalen Jelks

I'm not sure where all the other linebackers and Dlinemen get played, but a "starting" 3-4 alignment of Aldon Smith, Poe and Lawrence, with Gregory, Jaylon Smith playing OLB, and Vander Esch, Lee playing ILB is pretty intriguing, if only from a pass rush POV.

3-4 vs Run
LDE DLaw
NT Poe
RDE McCoy

ROLB Gregory
ILB LVE
ILB Lee
LOLB Jaylon

3-4 vs 3 WR sets (Want stronger run defense than Nickel)
LDE DLaw
NT McCoy
RDE Gregory

ROLB Jaylon
ILB Lee
ILB Joe Thomas
LOLB LVE

Mr_437 · May 1, 2020

You play Aldon Smith at OLB and McCoy at 5Tech.

Also, DLaw at OLB too not at 5tech...TyCraw can do that. However, there's flexibility with where they can place players.

Whyjerry · May 2, 2020

Smith and Lawrence are way too small to play DE in a 3-4 scheme. If anything you’d put Smith at OLB. McCoy could play DE. They have to trade Lawrence because he would be useless in that system. Woods could probably play NT and some DE in a 3-4 but he is a reserve at best. Besides Poe, Woods and McCoy they don’t have much on the roster to play DL in that system so probably need 3 more players. I think they can make it work at LB if Smith and Gregory get reinstated.

None of that matters because they are not playing 3-4.

ESisback · May 2, 2020

Whyjerry said:
Smith and Lawrence are way too small to play DE in a 3-4 scheme. If anything you’d put Smith at OLB. McCoy could play DE. They have to trade Lawrence because he would be useless in that system. Woods could probably play NT and some DE in a 3-4 but he is a reserve at best. Besides Poe, Woods and McCoy they don’t have much on the roster to play DL in that system so probably need 3 more players. I think they can make it work at LB if Smith and Gregory get reinstated.

None of that matters because they are not playing 3-4.

I think they’ll play a scheme that best utilizes the talent they have, which is a big improvement from the old regime. We’re all bored with the offseason and tend to overthink things at times.

CowboysFaninHouston · May 2, 2020

Jumbo075 said:
So, I know that Mike McCarthy has said that the Cowboys will have a base 4-3 defensive front. But it has also been discussed that Mike Nolan like running multiple fronts, and that they are considering moving Jaylon Smith to OLB, and have him rush the passer more often. Finally, I don't remember exactly when or where (so don't ask for a link), but I seem to recall rumors that the Cowboys will consider moving DE Jalen Jelks to OLB. Lastly, the Cowboys drafted Bradlee Anae, who is more than a little undersized at DE, but could be a better fit as a stand-up pass rusher in a 3-4 front.

If that happens, and if both Aldon Smith and Randy Gregory are reinstated, what do you think the Cowboys defense will look like when in a 3-4 front?

Some ideas:

3-4 Defensive Alignment Depth Chart
RDE 5-Tech - Aldon Smith, Tyrone Crawford
NT - Dontari Poe, Antwaun Woods, Neville Gallimore
LDE - 5-Tech - DeMarcus Lawrence, Joe Jackson

ROLB - Randy Gregory, Bradlee Anae
WILB - Sean Lee, Leighton Vander Esch
SILB - Leighton Vander Esch, Joe Thomas
SOLB - Jaylon Smith, Jalen Jelks

I'm not sure where all the other linebackers and Dlinemen get played, but a "starting" 3-4 alignment of Aldon Smith, Poe and Lawrence, with Gregory, Jaylon Smith playing OLB, and Vander Esch, Lee playing ILB is pretty intriguing, if only from a pass rush POV.

its never a simple, one year transition if they decide to do so. Anae rushed as a 4-3 end in college, so he maybe used to it. but I can see Poe as the NT, but who are the DEs in the 3-4? can Lawrence be an OLB like Greg Ellis. I don't see Lawrence as DE, as he is way under sized. Not sure if McCoy fits the DE role neither. so those are two huge roles/holes that have to be fit.

I don't count on Aldon Smith...that's wishful thinking for a guy who has been away for 3 years....if he makes the team, its a huge win. outside of that, he maybe inactive for many games, so don't play fantasy football just because he was good before....

also, I see LVE and Smith as inside LBs, as both are suited for that role much better.

if we do make the leap to 3-4, it will be a 2 year transition......

Silverstar · May 2, 2020

How bout this?

LE - McCoy
NT - Poe
RE - A. Smith

LOLB - Lawrence
LILB - LVE
RILB - J. Smith
ROLB - Gregory

:omg:

Manwiththeplan · May 2, 2020

Jumbo075 said:
McCoy fits in the base 4-3 defense. The purpose of THIS THREAD is to discuss possible off-base uses of the 3-4 alignment the Cowboys may use a minority of the time, and how it may affect their personnel choices.

I don't know what we are going to get from Gerald McCoy this year, but I would say, as of now, he's our second best linemen. If a proposed line-up, has us completely disregarding our second best player, then it sounds like more scheme over players...

buybuydandavis · May 2, 2020

xwalker said:
3-4 vs Run
LDE DLaw
NT Poe
RDE McCoy

ROLB Gregory
ILB LVE
ILB Lee
LOLB Jaylon

3-4 vs 3 WR sets (Want stronger run defense than Nickel)
LDE DLaw
NT McCoy
RDE Gregory

ROLB Jaylon
ILB Lee
ILB Joe Thomas
LOLB LVE

I see Thomas over Lee for pass downs too.

xwalker · May 2, 2020

BigTimeBlues said:
Where does Gerald McCoy fit in at?

Jumbo075 said:
McCoy fits in the base 4-3 defense. The purpose of THIS THREAD is to discuss possible off-base uses of the 3-4 alignment the Cowboys may use a minority of the time, and how it may affect their personnel choices.

In 2019 Belichick sometimes played 320 pound DL Lawrence Guy at DE in a 3-4 alignment...

xwalker · May 2, 2020

stilltheguru said:
When did Mike Nolan become Bill Belicheck?
Run the 4-3 and stop being cute

Mike Nolan was using many concepts similar to what Belichick used in 2018 and 2019 but Nolan was doing it in 2014 and previous seasons...

xwalker · May 2, 2020

MaaS said:
Horrible. D-Law would be an awful 3-4 end. OLB's don't fit well at all. Poe, Crawford, and LVE fit, but that's about it.

Wrong.

DLaw played Strong Side DE in the Marinelli defense which meant he often aligned closer to the OT than the Weak Side DE who often aligned with a wider split.

That put DLaw into a position very similar to some 3-4 DEs in the modern era.

The 3-4 in the modern era for most D-Coordinators that use it is much different than the old Parcells/Giants 3-4 defense with all DL 2-gapping.

When the Cowboys played the 3-4 with DWare and Spencer as the OLBs, DWare rarely dropped into coverage and almost always rushed the passer on passing plays.

That meant that Spencer often didn't rush the passer and the DE on that side was the outside pass rusher; whereas, the DE on DWares side was an inside player because DWare was basically playing like a 4-3 DE

Running the 3-4 as a package is different than using it as the base defense.

Jaylon and LVE are both big LBs similar in size to many 3-4 OLBs. Draft pick Anae was a hybrid 3-4 OLB / 4-3 DE in college. Randy Gregory would be a fit as a 3-4 OLB when it is used as a package defense.

Nolan has used a 3 man DL in the Nickel defense at times. Just envision the DWare/Spence 3-4 but with Spencer's position replaced by the Nickel CB. That would be 3 DL with DWare still standing up similar to his alignment in the base 3-4.

conner01 · May 2, 2020

BigTimeBlues said:
Where does Gerald McCoy fit in at?

That’s what I was thinking

xwalker · May 2, 2020

buybuydandavis said:
I see Thomas over Lee for pass downs too.

Obvious passing downs will most likely be a 4-2-5 or the equivalent of a 4-2-5 but with one DE standing up.

The 3-4 vs 3 WR sets that I listed is an alignment when run is as likely or more likely than pass but against a 3 WR set.

The 3-4 with pass defense personnel vs 3 WR sets is basically a half step between the 4-2-5 and 4-3.

VS 3 WR sets

4-2-5 is a Pass Defense
3-4 (with pass defense personnel)
- Stronger vs Run than 4-2-5
- Stronger vs Pass than 4-3
4-3 is a Run Defense vs 3 WRs

3-4 vs Run
LDE DLaw
NT Poe
RDE McCoy

ROLB Gregory
ILB LVE
ILB Lee
LOLB Jaylon

3-4 vs 3 WR sets (Want stronger run defense than Nickel)
LDE DLaw
NT McCoy
RDE Gregory

ROLB Jaylon
ILB Lee
ILB Joe Thomas
LOLB LVE

RandyOh · May 2, 2020

in a 3-4 the front should be McCoy and Crawford at the 5 techs and Poe or Woods at the 1 with Law and Aldon or Gregory rushing the edge. Whichever one is lucky enough to get reinstated.

stilltheguru · May 2, 2020

xwalker said:
Mike Nolan was using many concepts similar to what Belichick used in 2018 and 2019 but Nolan was doing it in 2014 and previous seasons...

Nolan wasnt even a coordinator so how was he using anything the last few years in new Orleans

xwalker · May 2, 2020

stilltheguru said:
Nolan wasnt even a coordinator so how was he using anything the last few years in new Orleans

Try reading what I said again...

Mike Nolan was using many concepts similar to what Belichick used in 2018 and 2019 but Nolan was doing it in 2014 and previous seasons...

cern · May 2, 2020

3-4 or 4-3, still 7 in the box. It will still come down to the talent on the field.

stilltheguru · May 2, 2020

xwalker said:
Try reading what I said again...

Mike Nolan was using many concepts similar to what Belichick used in 2018 and 2019 but Nolan was doing it in 2014 and previous seasons...

I read what you said. First part was dumb. 2nd part........if he did it in those seasons it looked nothing like Belicheck so he should stick to the basics

What if? Potential 3-4 alignments

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