Section446
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The scenario that's best for all parties involves him playing under the tag this year. Under your scenario, he wins a Super Bowl, then you have no choice but to pay him.
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A Comment and Questions for the Dak Doubters
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INCowboysFan
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Dak has 8 4Q comebacks and 14 game winning drives in his regular season career, and an additional one in the playoffs. So him being a non-factor is not true.
morasp
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I like your enthusiasm. Go get em tiger.
Creeper
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I feel better about Dak than I did about Romo. I also think Dak will improve under McCarthy. The Clapper was not good for Dak.
However, this does not mean I am yet convinced that Dak is an elite franchise QB, or even a franchise QB. I do believe he has a few things to clean up. For example, he clearly regressed last year in the 2nd half of the season. He reverted to some old bad habits. I have no idea if he was injured for that Eagles game or not. Some people say he was more injured than the Cowboys let on. If the Cowboys made the decisions to start him over Rush because they did not trust Rush, then that explains why Dalton is in Dallas now. If Dak is hurt in 2020, I have no doubt Dalton will get the start over an injured Dak.
When I watch Dak at the beginning of 2019 vs the end of 2019 its like two different Daks. The early Dak was setting his feet and decisive in his throws. That later Dak seemed to panic at times, throw off his back foot and hesitate. The December Eagles game Dak was atrocious. The Cowboys need the early Dak to play for 16 games. If he reverts to the bad Dak in crunch time again, the questions marks will pop up again.
However, this does not mean I am yet convinced that Dak is an elite franchise QB, or even a franchise QB. I do believe he has a few things to clean up. For example, he clearly regressed last year in the 2nd half of the season. He reverted to some old bad habits. I have no idea if he was injured for that Eagles game or not. Some people say he was more injured than the Cowboys let on. If the Cowboys made the decisions to start him over Rush because they did not trust Rush, then that explains why Dalton is in Dallas now. If Dak is hurt in 2020, I have no doubt Dalton will get the start over an injured Dak.
When I watch Dak at the beginning of 2019 vs the end of 2019 its like two different Daks. The early Dak was setting his feet and decisive in his throws. That later Dak seemed to panic at times, throw off his back foot and hesitate. The December Eagles game Dak was atrocious. The Cowboys need the early Dak to play for 16 games. If he reverts to the bad Dak in crunch time again, the questions marks will pop up again.
McKDaddy
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the OP's question is the damnable part of player evaluation, especially for the QB position. Dak could play the same or worse this upcoming season and the team could still win more games & possibly compete for a SB simply due to staff change & potentially as loaded a roster as we have seen since the dynasty years.
His value though must be primarily be determined by his performance. After 4 years, its clear that there is a big difference in how people grade his individual play. Obviously, someone is wrong. The problem is that those of us on the outside can't get honest feedback from a wide range of professional evaluators to see how our views stack up.
In the scenario presented, I would have to answer the question after we won the SB. If I saw improvement in the areas I have concerns with, then I would be more agreeable to a long term deal. If I don't see improvement, I feel that 5 years is plenty large enough sample size to know what you have and not tie the organizations future to the bloated contract that would be required.
His value though must be primarily be determined by his performance. After 4 years, its clear that there is a big difference in how people grade his individual play. Obviously, someone is wrong. The problem is that those of us on the outside can't get honest feedback from a wide range of professional evaluators to see how our views stack up.
In the scenario presented, I would have to answer the question after we won the SB. If I saw improvement in the areas I have concerns with, then I would be more agreeable to a long term deal. If I don't see improvement, I feel that 5 years is plenty large enough sample size to know what you have and not tie the organizations future to the bloated contract that would be required.
charron
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If you follow the history of SB winning QB's you'll see 1 of 2 basic types.
1. Is a stud QB who can makes a good team great.
2. Is a good QB who can rely on a dominant defense.
Dak is a good average QB maybe even little better than average with really good weapons at WR, RB, and a good OL. What Dak needs to win in the post season is a great defense. The problem is we are continuing to have to put many top resources into the offense to keep it looking good. At some point a top paid QB has got to help the OL look good, or make a WR look good and Dak hasn't in his 4 years. He has not elevated not 1 offensive players game. But we've seen TD's and yards per catch come down for everyone but maybe cooper who did well as a #1 target. His best asset is ball protection which is really good. He's not worth top money and paying him will only hurt the team once the bigger part of the money kicks in.
Cowboys22
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If the team wins the superbowl with Dak at QB, then I don't care one bit what he gets paid. The issue the so called doubter have is we don't think he can do it and shouldn't be paid like he did it until he actually does it. We all know that isn't really how it works so the team is in a tough spot. Even though I guess I'm considered a doubter, I like Dak and would like him to be the QB for the next 3-5 years to see what he can do with the new staff. I just don't think he has earned $35 million a year to this point but I realize he has to get paid at least similarly to Wentz and Goff because that's just the system we're in. It seems to many of us that he is being unreasonable in his demands for both top money and detrimental structure without budging to meet the team needs at all. Putting so much emphasis on the 4 years just indicates that he intends to hold the team hostage again for top money as soon as possible. I'd like to see him get paid in the Wentz/Goff range while helping the team with the structure of the deal so its not a total burden on the cap. Unwillingness to do that just doesn't sit well with many so I guess we are labeled doubters and haters.
Plankton
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I do not dislike Dak Prescott as a player. He's a good player who has played well the vast majority of his time in Dallas. His play in 2017 during the Elliott suspension was disconcerting, as it was in the first half of 2018. When Cooper arrived, his play improved significantly. Last year, he was a mixed bag, with some terrific performances (Giants, Lions, Commanders, and Vikings in a defeat) and some decidely poor ones (Patriots, Saints, Eagles). Prescott is a good leader, a good face for the organization, a player that his teammates, by all appearances, revere and follow, and he has worked to improve.
Is he worthy of coming back under a long term deal? Absolutely. Should it be top of scale pay per season? IMO, no. He's a top 10-12 quarterback in the league, and there's nothing to apologize for in being that. It's certainly deserving of a long term deal. You would just rather it be for a price that won't short the team at other positions, because while the Joneses can write a check for any amount that won't hurt their bottom line, there is a salary cap to consider. Yes, Goff and Wentz were overpaid. That doesn't mean that Prescott should automatically get overpaid just because two other teams were stupid.
Now, if he were to lead the team to a Super Bowl? That would be a significant chit in his corner to get bigger money. If he did it, I would have a hard time saying that he shouldn't get it.
The bottom line is, that he has to do just that. Nothing would make me happier than him making it happen.
Is he worthy of coming back under a long term deal? Absolutely. Should it be top of scale pay per season? IMO, no. He's a top 10-12 quarterback in the league, and there's nothing to apologize for in being that. It's certainly deserving of a long term deal. You would just rather it be for a price that won't short the team at other positions, because while the Joneses can write a check for any amount that won't hurt their bottom line, there is a salary cap to consider. Yes, Goff and Wentz were overpaid. That doesn't mean that Prescott should automatically get overpaid just because two other teams were stupid.
Now, if he were to lead the team to a Super Bowl? That would be a significant chit in his corner to get bigger money. If he did it, I would have a hard time saying that he shouldn't get it.
The bottom line is, that he has to do just that. Nothing would make me happier than him making it happen.
Bobhaze
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I think the thing most of the anti-Dakers I’ve read seem to focus on two fundamentally flawed ideas:
1. Dak is asking too much for a QB “who is not elite”. IMO- That is a fundamental misunderstanding of how the NFL QB market works. It’s not (nor has it ever been) solely based on what a QB has accomplished. The NFL QB market has always overpaid for QBs who have accomplished even less than Dak.
And I’m not here to argue that any QB in the next few years other than maybe Pat Mahomes is going to get paid what they deserve. But QBs get paid based on what the market demands, not on their accomplishments alone. Look at guys like Derek Carr, our own Andy Dalton, and even someone like Ryan Tannehill, who have made huge paydays because at that time, that was what the market for NFL QBs demanded for those who show more than average output. And Dak has performed way better than those guys and better than way too many folks here give him credit for.
2. Too many folks on these boards act like getting a good QB is easy. In fact the main reason the market for QBs is so out of whack is because it is extremely difficult to acquire a great NFL QB. Its almost laughable when I read how many people act like all we need to do is either trade or dump Dak and we’re suddenly better off. That’s ludicrous.
And although I’m glad we signed Andy Dalton as a backup, he’s not as good a QB as Dak. Anyone thinking we are better off with Dalton has apparently not been watching Dalton the last 5 years. He’s not terrible. But even in his own words, he sees this year as a way to “restart his career.”
The other crazy idea I see on these boards all the time is thinking all we need to do is draft an elite QB and we're set. As if that’s some kind of guarantee.
Dak Prescott is not perfect. But I’m glad he’s a Cowboy. And he will sign here for more money than he (Or any other QB) probably deserves. But that’s just the way the NFL QB market works. Dak will be starting QB in Dallas for several years. That ship has sailed.
jterrell
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They did both make the Pro Bowl as rookies.
That's where the similarities end.
I like Shan Shariff but he has been deservedly roasted for making this same comment.
Size:
Dalton is the same 6'2" as Dak. But that's where their size ceases being alike.
Dak is at least 15 pounds heavier, has longer arms, much larger hands.
Arm strength: This is nonsense. Andy Dalton has had one of the leagues' weakest arms since entering the league. It was a knock on him coming out of TCU and has only gotten worse as he has aged.
Dak had footwork issues that occasionally stripped his arm strength but he is a powerful guy with a plus arm.
Dak's average air yards per completion was 3rd highest in the NFL. He is pushing the ball down the field.
Abilities: This is MORE than nonsense. Dak is a strong QB who shrugs off sack attempts, breaks tackles on the run and then flexes after running over defenders. Dalton is a thinner build who lacks any of those abilities. He will get you a yard or two and get down. Last year Dalton finished 26th in rushing yards by a QB, Dak 8th. Andy is a tough guy and willing runner but he is used as a complete surprise run option. Dak is a power run option.
Dalton had insanely good weapons early in his career. Much like Dak does now. The closest he ever came to Dak's passing yardage total of last season was 700 yards fewer than Dak.
Like with Wentz and many other QBs haters want to compare to Dak they want to compare a QBs best season to Dak's worst.
At this stage of their careers Dak is a VASTLY better QB than Andy Dalton.
It's why Dak is franchised at 31.4M and Andy just signed for 3M knowing Dak is the starter here.
Comparing a guy who has 10% the market value as equitable is being intellectually dishonest at best.
TexasHillbilly
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In a couple of more years the going rate could very well be 45 million. it is rising fast.
shabazz
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We can support and critique at the same time
ondaedg
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He has taken hits that would shelve most QBs. Big upside that isn't brought up nearly enough.
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Quoted for 100% truth!!!
ondaedg
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How in the world do you know that Dak has hit his ceiling? And are you willing to state right here that Sam Darnold will finish with a better career than Dak?
And is 4900 yds a bad ceiling?
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Reality
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By "support' I mean "will root for" .. it has nothing to do with agendas, player hate, player love, who wants what, who deserves what, etc., but again, that's once the practices and games start.
CouchCoach
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The feelings that posters have against or for Prescott right now are because of the long drawn out process this has taken and I do not fault his agent or the player for that. They continue to try and milk the media just to keep their faces and voices out there in front of anyone else. They know they're going to capitulate, he and his agent know it and you do too. They're not going to break the pattern over the QB position.
There are posters mad at him right now and it's really not justified just because he doesn't do the deal they want him to take because they think it is a good deal. Who qualifies here as an expert on another's life decisions?
If we believe the reporting on this it's about 4 v 5 years and he is willing to bet on himself that he will be of a higher value in that 5th year than what they're offering now because of the escalating QB salaries; however, the cap will hit when Mahomes gets his new deal as no QB will be paid more than him.
Do people here realize they talk more about this and spend more time on it than either France or the Joneses? They went months without talking to each other and all the while the debate about his greed and value has raged here dominating this forum. Many of the reactions here are because of that, not his deal or lack of at this time.
How much more can be said about this situation? He will either sign the tag and show up or he will not, that will prove to be a most interesting topic. He will either sign a long term deal or play out the tag or sit out the year. I think it is highly probable it will not be that last one.
Does anyone here really care about how much he gets paid? I could care less. I care about how well he can execute this new offense and get all of these weapons deployed because this team rides this offense as far as it can carry the team.
He will show up and he will play and he will make some mistakes and the first one he makes, he will get blasted here because of how much he's being paid because too many fault the wrong party for how much they are being paid.
There are posters mad at him right now and it's really not justified just because he doesn't do the deal they want him to take because they think it is a good deal. Who qualifies here as an expert on another's life decisions?
If we believe the reporting on this it's about 4 v 5 years and he is willing to bet on himself that he will be of a higher value in that 5th year than what they're offering now because of the escalating QB salaries; however, the cap will hit when Mahomes gets his new deal as no QB will be paid more than him.
Do people here realize they talk more about this and spend more time on it than either France or the Joneses? They went months without talking to each other and all the while the debate about his greed and value has raged here dominating this forum. Many of the reactions here are because of that, not his deal or lack of at this time.
How much more can be said about this situation? He will either sign the tag and show up or he will not, that will prove to be a most interesting topic. He will either sign a long term deal or play out the tag or sit out the year. I think it is highly probable it will not be that last one.
Does anyone here really care about how much he gets paid? I could care less. I care about how well he can execute this new offense and get all of these weapons deployed because this team rides this offense as far as it can carry the team.
He will show up and he will play and he will make some mistakes and the first one he makes, he will get blasted here because of how much he's being paid because too many fault the wrong party for how much they are being paid.
tyke1doe
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I was a huge Dak fan his first year. I agreed with the decision to keep Romo on the bench because Dak was doing so well.
But hindsight is 20/20. I do think the Cowboys would have gotten pass the Packers had Romo returned as quarterback, but that's neither here nor there now.
Back to the question. If Dak showed more consistency, if Dak shows more accuracy, if Dak guides the team to score a game-winning touchdown in the playoffs, or better yet, in the Super Bowl, then, yes, I say break the bank for him.
But if he's essentially a bus driver, then, no.
Here's Dak's problem: he has a great team around him, particularly a great offense. He can't be average. Any average quarterback likely can win with this roster. Zeke, Amari, Gallup, CeeDee, Tyron Smith (1st rounder), Lael Collins (should have been a 1st round pick), Zack Martin (first round pick). There really is no excuse not to drive this offense into the playoffs, at the least. Dak has to go beyond that - both in the regular season and the post season.
You can't score only one touchdown and no touchdowns in games with an offense like this. You simply can't, not as a quarterback. That's what happened with Dak at the helm last year against the Patriots, the Saints and the Eagles.
So, if Dak shows himself to be average, then you look elsewhere, or at least be open to the possibility. Ideally, you want a franchise quarterback. You're always looking to improve your roster. And a franchise quarterback (though rare to find) makes up for a lot when your roster is thin elsewhere. Average to good quarterbacks need stacked rosters.
That's my two cents.
But hindsight is 20/20. I do think the Cowboys would have gotten pass the Packers had Romo returned as quarterback, but that's neither here nor there now.
Back to the question. If Dak showed more consistency, if Dak shows more accuracy, if Dak guides the team to score a game-winning touchdown in the playoffs, or better yet, in the Super Bowl, then, yes, I say break the bank for him.
But if he's essentially a bus driver, then, no.
Here's Dak's problem: he has a great team around him, particularly a great offense. He can't be average. Any average quarterback likely can win with this roster. Zeke, Amari, Gallup, CeeDee, Tyron Smith (1st rounder), Lael Collins (should have been a 1st round pick), Zack Martin (first round pick). There really is no excuse not to drive this offense into the playoffs, at the least. Dak has to go beyond that - both in the regular season and the post season.
You can't score only one touchdown and no touchdowns in games with an offense like this. You simply can't, not as a quarterback. That's what happened with Dak at the helm last year against the Patriots, the Saints and the Eagles.
So, if Dak shows himself to be average, then you look elsewhere, or at least be open to the possibility. Ideally, you want a franchise quarterback. You're always looking to improve your roster. And a franchise quarterback (though rare to find) makes up for a lot when your roster is thin elsewhere. Average to good quarterbacks need stacked rosters.
That's my two cents.
jazzcat22
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Fans already have their minds set, and nothing will change that. Some had their minds set as soon as Dak was drafted and entered that 1st game.
I remember after that loss to NY in their 1st NFL game of Dak and Zeke. A game which they could have won. Was that the game Tereence Williams, if he got out of bounds, we had a shot at a FG to win? If we picked up 5 years on the next play..
Anyway fans were all over Zeke and Dak, though some said Dak played better than expected. Anyway seemed 90% said,og we won't win a game, Zeke is a bust.
Well Dak and Zeke had a great year. Dak then regressed the last half of the next season, without Zeke they went 3-3. And some fans have hated him since.
Year 3, Dak wins us a playoff game many thought we would get blown out, but he brought us back, those same fans still hated him.
And even though he improved his play last year overall, with a failed lame duck coaching staff, the team failed. Dak as well as the entire team, and with an injured Cooper, fans dumped on Dak even more.
Nothing, not even SB win will change their minds, they will always invent some reason to not like him. Even if it is just related to how much he would get paid.
I am still not sold 100% on Dak, so want to see how he does this season with a new staff and scheme. However if he does sign a 4 or 5 year deal, I will not dislike him. He has his skill set, and has a lot of very good intangible assets. I think he can take us to a SB. And yes, he as ALL Qb's need to be surrounded with a strong team. Rather that be the defenses, or skill players or both, they need a supporting cast. So an excuse that he needs to have these type of players is BS. Why only does it apply to him, but not others?
So it is up to this new staff to utilize those skills sets to help this team win. As we know Garrett did not use this teams skills sets, especially on defense to help.
I remember after that loss to NY in their 1st NFL game of Dak and Zeke. A game which they could have won. Was that the game Tereence Williams, if he got out of bounds, we had a shot at a FG to win? If we picked up 5 years on the next play..
Anyway fans were all over Zeke and Dak, though some said Dak played better than expected. Anyway seemed 90% said,og we won't win a game, Zeke is a bust.
Well Dak and Zeke had a great year. Dak then regressed the last half of the next season, without Zeke they went 3-3. And some fans have hated him since.
Year 3, Dak wins us a playoff game many thought we would get blown out, but he brought us back, those same fans still hated him.
And even though he improved his play last year overall, with a failed lame duck coaching staff, the team failed. Dak as well as the entire team, and with an injured Cooper, fans dumped on Dak even more.
Nothing, not even SB win will change their minds, they will always invent some reason to not like him. Even if it is just related to how much he would get paid.
I am still not sold 100% on Dak, so want to see how he does this season with a new staff and scheme. However if he does sign a 4 or 5 year deal, I will not dislike him. He has his skill set, and has a lot of very good intangible assets. I think he can take us to a SB. And yes, he as ALL Qb's need to be surrounded with a strong team. Rather that be the defenses, or skill players or both, they need a supporting cast. So an excuse that he needs to have these type of players is BS. Why only does it apply to him, but not others?
So it is up to this new staff to utilize those skills sets to help this team win. As we know Garrett did not use this teams skills sets, especially on defense to help.