Video: Chris Simms: Dak is not Top 5

dragon_mikal

dragon_mikal

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CowboyRoy said:
So what is your "right price"?

Zeke is another conversation. I have never claimed Zeke is average. I have always agreed he is one of the better backs. That being said the RB position should not be paid like that ever.

That is my stance. Nothing trollish about it. Though you could call me a Zeke hater and you would be right on the money. However I root for the guy and I know he can ball.
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I was a proponent of letting Zeke walk when he decided to hold out because I felt like it was a slap to the face after how Jerry and team went to bat for him during his nonsense suspension. The difference between the two, Dak and Zeke, is that Zeke is arguably the best at his position (or was at the time) where as Dak isn't and that the offense was built around the run game at the time of Zeke's signing so to the Cowboys his value was inflated.

It made sense for Zeke to demand what he did. Everyone knows that Dak's asking price is too high.

Now I know Dak will get signed and will probably get close to what he's demanding and I hope I'm wrong and the team wins a title or two with him behind center because at the end of the day I want the Cowboys to succeed like almost everyone on this site.

As far as what I'd pay him...it'd be a fair offer based on his accomplishments not what his overinflated ego demands or what Timmy next door received. Yes I know it seems naive and the way the QB position is valued is unrealistic but that's my opinion.
 
dragon_mikal

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CowboyRoy said:
NO. I don't think any QB is worth 35 million. But if the top guys are getting 35 million than I think 33 million is market. What Goff and Wince are getting.

But I definitely do NOT cut Dak over 2 million dollars. Now if he wants 38 million or something like that, then I let him hold out. Let him rot. Would have done the same thing to Zeke. Play Pollard. So play Dalton.

And if he still holds out, let him stay out the entire season or trade him.

Cutting him is simply business stupid.

I also don't let him hold out over 1 year. I probably take it all the way to the very bitter end until TC starts and try to get him to sign for 5 years at 35 million. If he wont compromise, then I sign him for 4 years at 35 million. And in that 4 years time I continue to develop and draft young QB's.

This whole situation is Jerry's fault by the way.
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I like the way you think, lol. Savage.
 
Kolemmitt

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dragon_mikal said:
Do you think is Dak worth what he's asking? Personally?

Forget what other QBs are making.

Let's try to have an adult conversation. Without snide remarks or insults. I know how market economics work and am well aware of supply and demand so let's dispense with the whole "you disagree so you're a dumb dumb" narrative.
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Yes. Easy. QB contracts in general are dumb, but they are what they are.

If the Cowboys had been smart, they would have signed him before Wentz and Goff and just one year later his contract would now seem like a good deal.

So, you wait a year and he wants what the QBs at his level got, plus QB inflation. If the Cowboys are really dumb, they are going to let Mahomes and Watson sign first and let the QB contracts get even more nuts.

And yes, after this year, with the addition of Lamb and a real head coach, and better special teams, and a defense that is going to take the ball away, the team will be better and Dak will considered a top 5 QB, so his asking prices will go up another 5 million or so.

In summation, sign him to the 4-year-deal that he wants, and by this time next year, his deal will seem like a steal.
 

baltcowboy

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Simms has him at 8. What’s the big deal. If Eason becomes the 8th best quarterback for the Colts in 4 years they will be dancing in the streets in Indy. We need to get behind Dak and unite the Cowboys fan base. Trolls are infiltrating. This board has lots of new members giving their two cents on the Dak contract. Hmmm........
 
Kolemmitt

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rnr_honeybadger said:
you mean the latest rumor. The salary number has changed but what’s remained constant is the number of years and I think that’s where the disagreement is.
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Thank you. All of the local writers that know what they are talking about all say its about a 4-year-deal v a 5-year-deal. The yearly dollar amount is not even an issue.

He is being smart. The Cowboys had him very cheap for four years and got tremendous value out of him. Of course, they just sat on their hands and did not use the extra money to sign an FA of significance. Now, he sees a chance to capitalize on a new CBA in a few years and he want to take advantage of it when he turns 30, or QB prime age. I don't blame him one bit.
 
dragon_mikal

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rnr_honeybadger said:
Ah the old, if we pay him my team won’t win the Super Bowl, first off you need to put away your illusion that you have any insight into the future. Secondly your claim only holds water if the moment Dak signs the salary cap and the qb market become frozen - that isn’t happening now is it? Salary cap will go up and Dak will play under the label of highest paid an until the next guy gets paid more.

Lastly your prediction of being unable to win anything also makes sense if the Cowboys had no talent. It isn’t like Aikmans final years as a Cowboy where he was the QBs getting paid a huge salary and they had no means of surrounding him with anything because of salary cap issues.
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What makes you think the salary cap is going to rise next year? The NFL may not even have a full season and they've already made salary cuts with King Roger himself falling on his sword and not accepting his meager salary.

You don't need to know the future to understand the more you pay Dak the less you'll have to invest in other positions. Dak is a QB that needs to be surrounded by better players than he is. He doesn't elevate those around him those around him elevate him.

Now maybe under a HC that actually knows what he's doing it'll be different.
 
jday

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CowboyRoy said:
Where is that? I believe what Simms just said. 35 million and then he wants some crazy amount for the 5th year.
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If you average in a 5th year that is north of 40 mil range, the 5 year average would probably be 37 mil.
 
CowboyRoy

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rnr_honeybadger said:
Ah the old, if we pay him my team won’t win the Super Bowl, first off you need to put away your illusion that you have any insight into the future. Secondly your claim only holds water if the moment Dak signs the salary cap and the qb market become frozen - that isn’t happening now is it? Salary cap will go up and Dak will play under the label of highest paid an until the next guy gets paid more.

Lastly your prediction of being unable to win anything also makes sense if the Cowboys had no talent. It isn’t like Aikmans final years as a Cowboy where he was the QBs getting paid a huge salary and they had no means of surrounding him with anything because of salary cap issues.
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That stance simply isn't true. Because within a year or two all the top 12 QB's will all most likely be 30 million or more. So there will be no advantage for anyone with a good QB other that one is better than the other.

Unless someone is going to argue that having an average QB on an average salary is how to win the SB. Which is ridiculous.
 
dragon_mikal

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Kolemmitt said:
Thank you. All of the local writers that know what they are talking about all say its about a 4-year-deal v a 5-year-deal. The yearly dollar amount is not even an issue.

He is being smart. The Cowboys had him very cheap for four years and got tremendous value out of him. Of course, they just sat on their hands and did not use the extra money to sign an FA of significance. Now, he sees a chance to capitalize on a new CBA in a few years and he want to take advantage of it when he turns 30, or QB prime age. I don't blame him one bit.
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Yep and no one should blame the Cowboys' FO for saying nope.
 
CowboyRoy

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dragon_mikal said:
What makes you think the salary cap is going to rise next year? The NFL may not even have a full season and they've already made salary cuts with King Roger himself falling on his sword and not accepting his meager salary.

You don't need to know the future to understand the more you pay Dak the less you'll have to invest in other positions. Dak is a QB that needs to be surrounded by better players than he is. He doesn't elevate those around him those around him elevate him.

Now maybe under a HC that actually knows what he's doing it'll be different.
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That is true for any position you pay. The point is moot. To complain about paying ONLY the QB position is disingenuous.
 
JW82

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They figured out how to make a rookie salary slotting system, maybe they need to come up with a positional roster slotting salary cap. Say the QB position can only take up 15% of the cap. So you need to manage how you disperse that with your 2 or 3 QB's in the 55 man roster. Just making up this example, but I bet the smart guys in the league can figure something out.
 
CowboyRoy

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Great way to do it. And Jerry said he broached that idea or something similar.

QB can only take up a max percentage of the salary cap. 15% would be a good amount.

But that doesn't solve the problem of paying a guy like Dak that is between 6-9 as the highest paid QB.
 
CowboyRoy

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dragon_mikal said:
To be fair I don't want to overpay any position. I was against paying Amari Cooper as well.
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Dak, Zeke, Cooper, Lawrence are all overpaid.

So...………….for me...……....you HAVE to pick a position group or groups where you can get by with great production and not need ONE highly paid player. To me that is obvious...…….RB.

If you have a great oline, just get 2 or 3 good backs and you can get the same kind of production. Or just hold firm and don't pay these guys over 10 million.

Or, just have great young backs on rookie deals churning every few years.
 
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