What exactly does "make the players around you better" mean?

TheMarathonContinues

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I've heard this used to describe guys like Tom Brady and Russell Wilson. But how exactly do you gauge someone making another player better? Did Joe Montana make Jerry Rice better? Did Troy make Michael Irvin better? I've always had a problem grasping this. Because if I go by the stats...........



In 14 games in 2016 Amari Cooper in 14 games had 48 receptions on 96 attempts for 680 yards while averaging 14.2 yards a catch.......



In 2017 prior to getting to Dallas in 6 games he had 22 catches on 31 targets for 280 yards at 12.7 yards a catch and a touchdown. Safe to say he was going to have a even worse year.



Comes to Dallas and in 9 games has 53 catches on 76 targets at 13.7 yards a catch and 6 Touchdowns.

Season after has 79 catches on 119 targets at 15.1 yards a catch for 8 touchdowns.




On to Randall Cobb.

He's had some injuries recently...miraculously got healthy with Dallas somehow.

Maybe a bit unfair to judge him on his 2018 season with Aaron Rodgers so let's go a year prior to 2017 where he played 15 games.

66 catches on 91 targets for 653 yards on a average of 9.9 yards a catch for 4 touchdowns.

In 2019 with Dallas he had 55 catches for 828 yards on 15.1 yards a catch and 3 touchdowns.....all while being the 3rd best receiver on the team.



Anyone want to help me understand what "makes his receivers better" mean?
 

Whyjerry

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The easiest way for me to think about this is through Michael Jordan. He was a great player. The best. Yet he was a killer defender. Took all the tough shots. Did the dirty things on the court. Was an absolute maniac about winning. He didn’t have to do all that because he was a Michael Jordan. He made life easier for his teammates because he would take the final shot. He was a really hard worker so he set the work standard so his team mates tried to match. He had no problem sounding off if things were off so nothing was kept under wraps. He was a great passer too. He’d draw defenders and then feed. Lots of defenses rotated his way so the team got better looks. He is the best example of a guy that made everyone else better.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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The easiest way for me to think about this is through Michael Jordan. He was a great player. The best. Yet he was a killer defender. Took all the tough shots. Did the dirty things on the court. Was an absolute maniac about winning. He didn’t have to do all that because he was a Michael Jordan. He made life easier for his teammates because he would take the final shot. He was a really hard worker so he set the work standard so his team mates tried to match. He had no problem sounding off if things were off so nothing was kept under wraps. He was a great passer too. He’d draw defenders and then feed. Lots of defenses rotated his way so the team got better looks. He is the best example of a guy that made everyone else better.

Maybe I should clarify I should've asked in the NFL. Because I understand how Jordan did it. A great example. And I feel its much easier to do on a 12 man team in the NBA then it is a 53 man team.

Like how Romo made Laurent Robinson better than he ever for 1 year.

Ok so this is my argument there......Laurent Robinson was not a bum prior to getting to Dallas. He suffered injuries prior to getting to Dallas.

And if we use this argument then what argument do we use for Roy Williams? He was a former top 10 pick in the draft. He got to Dallas and sucked. Is Romo to blame for that? He deserves praise for Robinson but deserves to be knocked for Roy Williams?

I just wonder how far does this stretch? Its like we pick and chose when we want to give a wide receiver credit for his contributions.
 

bewp7

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i like to say elevate everyone around him and put them in position to succeed instead of make better which make it sound like a tangible thing that u can track statistically. basically the opposite of dak prescott. while jerry is talking about making the offense a “dak friendly” system a true franchise quarterback is the system...one elevates every one around him while dak need every one around him to elevate him which is why they have no money invested in the defense. really a true benefit of a franchise qb is not have to invest 75% of ur resources into the offense like the cowboys have done.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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It's not about stats. It's about putting the players around you in positions to succeed. For instance, a QB who can read a D quickly makes his OL better because he gets rid of the ball faster.
Ehh.......I don't think you can make a offensive line better. I think you can make them look better than they are and I think that's what Romo did when he came in for Bledsoe. But you can't make a bad offensive line look good.
 

HellCrowe

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I mean it is a team game. Just having Zeke makes Dak and the receivers better and vice versa. Having a good OL make those other positions exceed in what they do. We have all of that functioning to making each part better. Really, there shouldn’t be any excuses next year.
 

Stash

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Maybe I should clarify I should've asked in the NFL. Because I understand how Jordan did it. A great example. And I feel its much easier to do on a 12 man team in the NBA then it is a 53 man team.



Ok so this is my argument there......Laurent Robinson was not a bum prior to getting to Dallas. He suffered injuries prior to getting to Dallas.

And if we use this argument then what argument do we use for Roy Williams? He was a former top 10 pick in the draft. He got to Dallas and sucked. Is Romo to blame for that? He deserves praise for Robinson but deserves to be knocked for Roy Williams?

I just wonder how far does this stretch? Its like we pick and chose when we want to give a wide receiver credit for his contributions.

You're definitely right about the 'pick and choose' part. The same way fans try to 'pick and choose' what counts and what's 'garbage time stats'.

All depends on the agenda.
 

Whyjerry

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Maybe I should clarify I should've asked in the NFL. Because I understand how Jordan did it. A great example. And I feel its much easier to do on a 12 man team in the NBA then it is a 53 man team.



Ok so this is my argument there......Laurent Robinson was not a bum prior to getting to Dallas. He suffered injuries prior to getting to Dallas.

And if we use this argument then what argument do we use for Roy Williams? He was a former top 10 pick in the draft. He got to Dallas and sucked. Is Romo to blame for that? He deserves praise for Robinson but deserves to be knocked for Roy Williams?

I just wonder how far does this stretch? Its like we pick and chose when we want to give a wide receiver credit for his contributions.

Jordan is the best example. Football wise I would look at a Ray Lewis. Clearly Ed Reed too. Those guys were ridiculously talented yet were the hardest workers too. The bar was high on that defense led by the 2 best players. I also think they were master motivators as well. Either guy chirps for a few minutes and you are ready to run through a wall. Playing CB with Reed those guys knew he had their backs. Those CBs played loose because of that. I always think talent plus work ethic plus leadership plus production plus team first. If you are that guy you elevate everyone else around you.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Or helping Terrance Williams pass for an NFL receiver for several years.
See......part of me wants to agree with that. But Terrance was highly regarded before he got to Dallas. To me giving him credit for Terrance Williams is like giving Dak credit for Michael Gallup. Granted, I'd much rather have Michael Gallup but both were 3rd round picks and had similar grades coming out.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Jordan is the best example. Football wise I would look at a Ray Lewis. Clearly Ed Reed too. Those guys were ridiculously talented yet were the hardest workers too. The bar was high on that defense led by the 2 best players. I also think they were master motivators as well. Either guy chirps for a few minutes and you are ready to run through a wall. Playing CB with Reed those guys knew he had their backs. Those CBs played loose because of that. I always think talent plus work ethic plus leadership plus production plus team first. If you are that guy you elevate everyone else around you.
You have any examples of quarterbacks doing it?
 

Stash

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See......part of me wants to agree with that. But Terrance was highly regarded before he got to Dallas. To me giving him credit for Terrance Williams is like giving Dak credit for Michael Gallup. Granted, I'd much rather have Michael Gallup but both were 3rd round picks and had similar grades coming out.

Where did Williams go after Romo left?

Right out of the league.

And so far down that he couldn't cut it in the XFL.

Romo had that clown looking like a viable #2 receiver, rather than what he actually was, just #2.
 

Whyjerry

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You have any examples of quarterbacks doing it?

I think Elway's ridiculous talent elevated those teams. Think about it - what elite WR played with Elway? I also think you have to say Brady. Clearly he had Gronk and Moss but it seems that for 20 years whoever played with him just got better. Think about Danny Amendola. Guy played at an All Pro level when he was with Brady.
 

bewp7

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a more tangible thing is against the jets where a few guys get hurt and dak and the offense can’t do a thing or zeke gets suspended and dak and the cowboys can not even score 10 points in a game. the ability to perform when every thing is not stacked in ur favor is the best way to describe “make the players around u better”.
 

foofighters

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It's not about stats. It's about putting the players around you in positions to succeed. For instance, a QB who can read a D quickly makes his OL better because he gets rid of the ball faster.
Putting the ball where the WR catches it in stride and can get YAC. A running back who can make guys miss helps the oline and even defense. And so on...
 

PAPPYDOG

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I've heard this used to describe guys like Tom Brady and Russell Wilson. But how exactly do you gauge someone making another player better? Did Joe Montana make Jerry Rice better? Did Troy make Michael Irvin better? I've always had a problem grasping this. Because if I go by the stats...........



In 14 games in 2016 Amari Cooper in 14 games had 48 receptions on 96 attempts for 680 yards while averaging 14.2 yards a catch.......



In 2017 prior to getting to Dallas in 6 games he had 22 catches on 31 targets for 280 yards at 12.7 yards a catch and a touchdown. Safe to say he was going to have a even worse year.



Comes to Dallas and in 9 games has 53 catches on 76 targets at 13.7 yards a catch and 6 Touchdowns.

Season after has 79 catches on 119 targets at 15.1 yards a catch for 8 touchdowns.




On to Randall Cobb.

He's had some injuries recently...miraculously got healthy with Dallas somehow.

Maybe a bit unfair to judge him on his 2018 season with Aaron Rodgers so let's go a year prior to 2017 where he played 15 games.

66 catches on 91 targets for 653 yards on a average of 9.9 yards a catch for 4 touchdowns.

In 2019 with Dallas he had 55 catches for 828 yards on 15.1 yards a catch and 3 touchdowns.....all while being the 3rd best receiver on the team.



Anyone want to help me understand what "makes his receivers better" mean?
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