News: Dak’s performance without Zeke

Clove

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starfan1 said:
you do realize the haters dont give 2 shats about Daks performance without Zeke.Facts make no difference to them. This years narrative is garbage time and cant beat good teams. Last year it was cant throw for more than 250. Once dak takes this team to the promise land then it will be about the team. When it should be now.
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This is perfect. This is why I say, don't argue with or try to convince them of squat. Let them wallow in their own misery. It annoys me to see pro Dak people trying to totally convince anti Dak people of anything, because no one's going to change their mind.
 

pansophy

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Northern_Cowboy said:
Dak has played 6 games without Zeke (not counting a meaninless game at the end of the 2016 season when the team sat Zeke).
Dak is 3-3 in those games is his QBR is as follows for each game

46
15
18
59
88
63

Not exactly tearing it up without him .

Now Don't make me post stats for how the team does when Zeke is held in check they are worse. Zeke is the engine that makes the team run, not Dak been that way for 4 years and it will be that way this season too
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This is a better way to look at it rather than situationally. In principle Zeke would be off the field for strategic and tactical reasons given the situation of the game.

Team stats are hard to use to evaluate players. I’d rather look at Dak’s progression.

Year 1 worked even though Dak and Dez never got it together. What was revealed in year 2 was that Dak couldn’t hit WRs on the outside of the field, so defenses clogged the middle of field. Dez, Witten, and Beasley were all said to have “declined” in the same year, but Dak just couldn’t make teams pay for cheating inside.

Year 3 was setup to counter that with speed to outside and trying to punish defenses with go routes for clogging the middle of field. They chose that because Dak was decent at those throws and better than trying to hit small windows on the outside. Almost never did you see our WRs make a catch and have to drag their feet to stay in bounds. Dak’s first TD in the preseason was a long go route. Problem was it just wasn’t enough to kick defenses out of clogging the middle of field. Dak hit some of those but they aren’t high percentage plays, we had speed but not necessarily talent on the outside. We just couldn’t hit enough of them.

We trade for Cooper. I was against the trade because I didn’t see why Dak and Cooper would connect better than he and Dez. Obviously wrong about that. Interestingly the first big game Cooper had wasn’t enough to break defenses out of the middle of the field. But we did the same thing the week after and so defenses had to go back to protecting the outside. 1 1/2 years later the middle of the field was open again. Beasley and Jarwin started showing up on the stat line again. It was back to similar conditions to his rookie year.

What some of us noticed towards the end of year 3 is that Dak’s anticipation was getting better. I wasn’t sure until Dak himself said that was happening in the off season. What sold me on Dak is his mechanical adjustments he made in the off season. He came out burning the first 3 games - yes against weaker teams, but the accuracy and anticipation that wasn’t there in previous years was present.

It’s unfortunate that he wasn’t healthy all year. I think the thing that gets missed in that 95% of guys come into the league and just never really get better or put it together. Dak has shown he can improve significantly in both the mental and physical aspects of the position. That’s rare, and regardless of this stat or that most everyone would put him in the top 6-10 guys.

We can win with that.
 
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Nav22 said:
https://www.espn.com/blog/dallas-co...oys-pay-dak-prescott-lets-look-at-the-numbers

Over his career, Prescott has a higher Total QBR on plays with Elliott off the field (71.3) than he does with him on (70.3). From 2016 to 2019, the only qualified quarterback with at least a 71.3 QBR is Patrick Mahomes (78.2).

Just keying in on the takeaway that Prescott is better without Elliott than with him is simplistic, but it’s close. There’s a similar split with his yards per attempt (7.65 with Elliott and 7.53 without) and first-down percentage of pass attempts (37% with, 35% without).

As a team, Dallas’s third-down percentage without Elliott (43.5) is barely better than with him (43.3).

Another way to examine Prescott’s passing without the threat of Elliott is to look at his performance in empty sets. The NFL calls a pass play on 98.8% of plays with an empty formation (not surprising), so it’s relevant to see how Prescott does when his formation signals an obvious pass before the snap.

Prescott’s performance out of empty sets has been better than good -- his 83.2 Total QBR ranks fourth among qualified quarterbacks (behind Mahomes, Lamar Jackson and Andrew Luck). He has thrown for 14 touchdowns with five interceptions and averaged 7.7 yards per attempt out of empty sets, ranking in the top 10 in both touchdown-to-interception ratio and yards per attempt among quarterbacks with 100-plus of those passes over the past four years.
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But, I thought he sucked?????
 
ghst187

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The coaching staffs performance without Zeke or Tyron is abysmal, just like their performances without Romo when he went down....the coaching is more causal than Dak ...
 
Nav22

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Vtwin said:
One would have to be a moron to not place much more emphasis on entire games without Zeke over a group of single plays with Zeke on the bench.

This is the single dumbest attempt at promoting Dak ever attempted on this forum.

Nice work.
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Pssst... Dak has won each of his last 4 games in which Zeke didn’t play. So he kicks the **** out of you even when you try to cherry-pick like an idiot.

I know you’re embarrassed and you should be.

Dak wins, you lose. Because winners win and losers lose.

$31.4m on the tag. 5-year/$175m offer on the table.
:thumbup:
 
BigStar

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Sevenup3000 said:
Dak Prescott is 4-3 without Zeke (excluding 2016) including a 4-0 winning streak...

His last game without Zeke, Dak threw for 300+ yards, 4tds, 0 turnovers, and the game winning TD because our defense was beyond terrible.

Try again.
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The Giants game lol that didn't matter at all? OK, one game over .500...earth shattering point. If he could complete a timing pattern wo making the WR slow down, I would be grateful of improvement. We had to trade a 1st rounder to dig him out of his hole when it was on him.

Top 5 rusher, top 5 WR, top 5 OL...8-8, anytime a real D shows up, Dak folds. He should be the top paid QB as well but can't win any games against quality opps.
 
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BigStar

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Nav22 said:
Pssst... Dak has won each of his last 4 games in which Zeke didn’t play. So he kicks the **** out of you even when you try to cherry-pick like an idiot.

I know you’re embarrassed and you should be.

Dak wins, you lose. Because winners win and losers lose.

$31.4m on the tag. 5-year/$175m offer on the table.
:thumbup:
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What has Dak won? $...? Good for us lol
 
BigStar

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pansophy said:
This is a better way to look at it rather than situationally. In principle Zeke would be off the field for strategic and tactical reasons given the situation of the game.

Team stats are hard to use to evaluate players. I’d rather look at Dak’s progression.

Year 1 worked even though Dak and Dez never got it together. What was revealed in year 2 was that Dak couldn’t hit WRs on the outside of the field, so defenses clogged the middle of field. Dez, Witten, and Beasley were all said to have “declined” in the same year, but Dak just couldn’t make teams pay for cheating inside.

Year 3 was setup to counter that with speed to outside and trying to punish defenses with go routes for clogging the middle of field. They chose that because Dak was decent at those throws and better than trying to hit small windows on the outside. Almost never did you see our WRs make a catch and have to drag their feet to stay in bounds. Dak’s first TD in the preseason was a long go route. Problem was it just wasn’t enough to kick defenses out of clogging the middle of field. Dak hit some of those but they aren’t high percentage plays, we had speed but not necessarily talent on the outside. We just couldn’t hit enough of them.

We trade for Cooper. I was against the trade because I didn’t see why Dak and Cooper would connect better than he and Dez. Obviously wrong about that. Interestingly the first big game Cooper had wasn’t enough to break defenses out of the middle of the field. But we did the same thing the week after and so defenses had to go back to protecting the outside. 1 1/2 years later the middle of the field was open again. Beasley and Jarwin started showing up on the stat line again. It was back to similar conditions to his rookie year.

What some of us noticed towards the end of year 3 is that Dak’s anticipation was getting better. I wasn’t sure until Dak himself said that was happening in the off season. What sold me on Dak is his mechanical adjustments he made in the off season. He came out burning the first 3 games - yes against weaker teams, but the accuracy and anticipation that wasn’t there in previous years was present.

It’s unfortunate that he wasn’t healthy all year. I think the thing that gets missed in that 95% of guys come into the league and just never really get better or put it together. Dak has shown he can improve significantly in both the mental and physical aspects of the position. That’s rare, and regardless of this stat or that most everyone would put him in the top 6-10 guys.

We can win with that.
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Great post on Dak's evolution esp regarding defenses sitting on the middle stuff forcing Dak to throw outside. I felt Dak was limited but his play has improved every year he's been in the league, notably improving on his anticipation this season. He took less sacks, showed some accuracy on the slants esp for RAC, and stepped up in the pocket more than back peddling to buy time. One aspect many are waiting on is aggression....and early. Not "waiting" until later in the game to start picking it up (this has been an issue since Garrett so hopefully we improve).

He's top 10...but about to be paid top 1/2. He's a good young QB, maybe a step below the Mahomes, Wilson but above Carr/Garrap. He does work on his game and doesn't seem to coast like you see with some who have warts, but have enough good traits to feel they don't have to work on their other aspects of their game; Vick, Farve come to mind.
 
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BigStar

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Nav22 said:
40-24 with a playoff win.

2nd-most wins in the league since 2016.

I know it hurts.
:thumbup:
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My pockets? Dak wasn't gonna give me none of it anyway, but keep at it ;) 1 Playoff win in 4 seasons, impressive? The 2nd most 3rd loving 4th guy I knew who plead the 5th :D
 

pansophy

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BigStar said:
Great post on Dak's evolution esp regarding defenses sitting on the middle stuff forcing Dak to throw outside. I felt Dak was limited but his play has improved every year he's been in the league, notably improving on his anticipation this season. He took less sacks, showed some accuracy on the slants esp for RAC, and stepped up in the pocket more than back peddling to buy time. One aspect many are waiting on is aggression....and early. Not "waiting" until later in the game to start picking it up (this has been an issue since Garrett so hopefully we improve).

He's top 10...but about to be paid top 1/2. He's a good young QB, maybe a step below the Mahomes, Wilson but above Carr/Garrap. He does work on his game and doesn't seem to coast like you see with some who have warts, but have enough good traits to feel they don't have to work on their other aspects of their game; Vick, Farve come to mind.
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Yeah he has shown willingness to work. I mean Derek Carr was the highest paid Player ever when he signed. I always forget that. ...and it doesn’t even sound like he will be the highest paid, so it can’t be that bad.
 
Bennie

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Nav22 said:
Pssst... Dak has won each of his last 4 games in which Zeke didn’t play. So he kicks the **** out of you even when you try to cherry-pick like an idiot.

I know you’re embarrassed and you should be.

Dak wins, you lose. Because winners win and losers lose.

$31.4m on the tag. 5-year/$175m offer on the table.
:thumbup:
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So why didn't Dak muster up a win against the Eagles with a playoff birth on the line if he is such a winner? What excuses are you going to make for him?
 
PAPPYDOG

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Nav22 said:
40-24 with a playoff win.

2nd-most wins in the league since 2016.

I know it hurts.
:thumbup:
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40-24 of which 13-3 are the Skins and the Giants.
27-21 since 2017 not exactly what have you done for me lately success story!!!

 
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Nav22

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Bennie said:
So why didn't Dak muster up a win against the Eagles with a playoff birth on the line if he is such a winner? What excuses are you going to make for him?
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“DURRRRR LET’S IGNORE HIS ENTIRE CAREER AND CHERRY-PICK 1 GAME INSTEAD!!”

That’s when you know you have NOTHING.
:lmao2:
 

Sevenup3000

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Bennie said:
So why didn't Dak muster up a win against the Eagles with a playoff birth on the line if he is such a winner? What excuses are you going to make for him?
Click to expand...

You DO realize Dak couldn't even practice all that week because his shoulder was injured right? Please stop embarrassing yourself.
 
America's Cowboy

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doomsday9084 said:
What a relatively large percentage of the fanbase is looking for is a gunslinger in a top QB. A guy who is going to win shootouts with his arm in back and forth battles. That isn't Dak, at least so far. Dak has a lot of positive qualities in his durability, leadership, ability to avoid dumb throws, etc. OTOH, when he gets into a shootout, its just not his thing.

A very distinct number of his wins are ones where the whole team grinds the opponent to dust and Dak plays a part in that. All of these topics about Dak are dancing around the same thing, IMHO.

If Parcells was still around, Dak would be his guy. He is such a prototypical Parcells quarterback and he does what Parcells wants a QB to do in order to win. He is not a Don Coryell quarterback.
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But Romo is a Don Coryell quarterback, even though Dak was 2 measley yards short of breaking Romo's single season franchise record last season?
 
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