“Don’t pay Dak” crowd, what’s your QB solution?

Status
Not open for further replies.

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
In 2019, Dalton completed 59.5% of his passes. He had a drop rate of 5.4% (27 drops) and a bad throw % of 18.3%. Was on target 71.8%. YPA was 6.2
In 2019 Dak completed 65.1% of his passes. He had a drop rate of 6.2% (36 drops) and a bad throw % of 14.8%. Was on target 77.6%. YPA was 8.2.

So Dak had more pass attempts, more of his passes were on target and completed. He had way more passes dropped, but still had a higher completion % and a higher yards per attempt.

So if Dalton is "very accurate" what do you think Dak is?

I think Dak plays indoors, not in Ohio in the Winter and enjoys much better protection and skilled position weapons. I think Defenses have a much tougher time with the Cowboys Offense then with Cincy's. I think it will be interesting to see what Dalton might be able to do in the Cowboys Offense.
 

Redline360

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,371
Reaction score
4,609
Im not against signing Dak but it needs to be at a reasonable price. He's trying to get paid top dollar that he's not worth.

Nothing wrong with Dalton imo. Is Dak better, sure but I wouldn't consider the gap that big... If Dak wants to play game let him try the open market while we bolster signing players needed for defense.

You can win a superbowl with a medicore/good quarterback but stats have shown that most bolster top 10 defense and or rank high in turnovers
 

INCowboysFan

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,963
Reaction score
2,640
I think Dak plays indoors, not in Ohio in the Winter and enjoys much better protection and skilled position weapons. I think Defenses have a much tougher time with the Cowboys Offense then with Cincy's. I think it will be interesting to see what Dalton might be able to do in the Cowboys Offense.
Cincy has relatively mild winters. It's not like he's been playing in Buffalo or GB. Why are we making so many excuses for Dalton's crappy play and just assuming he will seamlessly replace Dak?
 

basel90

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,909
Reaction score
4,287
In 2019, Dalton completed 59.5% of his passes. He had a drop rate of 5.4% (27 drops) and a bad throw % of 18.3%. Was on target 71.8%. YPA was 6.2
In 2019 Dak completed 65.1% of his passes. He had a drop rate of 6.2% (36 drops) and a bad throw % of 14.8%. Was on target 77.6%. YPA was 8.2.

So Dak had more pass attempts, more of his passes were on target and completed. He had way more passes dropped, but still had a higher completion % and a higher yards per attempt.

So if Dalton is "very accurate" what do you think Dak is?

Are you suggesting that 6% differencial in accuracy makes Dak elite compard to Dalton ? and that 6% is worth 32+ million a year ?? Millions we need to fix a spotty defense and other holes.

Moreover, there are fundamental and profound reasons for the difference in stats you stated:

1- Dallas has a way superior OL
2- Dallas has a superir RB and running game
3- WR position at Dallas is superior
4- Dak's positive stats after the game has already been lost (during futile comeback attempts ) is alarming and many analysts deem them as empty stats.
5- Don't forget the intangibles : Dak missed out on crucial throws at the most critical games , dating back to 2018. This cannot be quantified easily.
 

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
Cincy has relatively mild winters. It's not like he's been playing in Buffalo or GB. Why are we making so many excuses for Dalton's crappy play and just assuming he will seamlessly replace Dak?

No. Paul Brown Stadium is gusty. It sits right on the river and the way that thing was built, the wind flies through there and it's often hard to cut the wind with the pass in that stadium. You have to be able to spin that thing and that's not Dalton.

Maybe ask why we are trying to tear Dalton down before he's ever suited up one time as a Cowboy......
 

Swagger

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,973
Reaction score
7,689
In 2019, Dalton completed 59.5% of his passes. He had a drop rate of 5.4% (27 drops) and a bad throw % of 18.3%. Was on target 71.8%. YPA was 6.2
In 2019 Dak completed 65.1% of his passes. He had a drop rate of 6.2% (36 drops) and a bad throw % of 14.8%. Was on target 77.6%. YPA was 8.2.

So Dak had more pass attempts, more of his passes were on target and completed. He had way more passes dropped, but still had a higher completion % and a higher yards per attempt.

So if Dalton is "very accurate" what do you think Dak is?
Both played in different offenses.

Dalton is accurate in proportion to the offense and facilities surrounding him.
 

QuincyCarterEra

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,324
Reaction score
10,736
Well, they should have tagged Dak with the non-exclusive tag and signed Case Keenum.
And they could still get Keenum for less than Dak is asking and he would be far better.
That was an easy and obvious decision.
Kellen Moore could come out of coaching and still outplay Dak
Marcus Mariota would have been better.
Josh Rosen, maybe.
Or Colt McCoy.
We know Dak isn't the answer.

Please never talk about football ever again. We beg you.

Don't subjugate others to such horrible opinions.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

CowboysFaninDC
Messages
31,150
Reaction score
17,671
I don't disagree with anything you're saying. I'm just saying it's quite possible to find great quarterbacks in the mid first round or later. The draft is also littered with top 10 quarterbacks who aren't that great. Better odds for sure but not guarantees
and thus is the question. do you part ways with a proven QB that is sure to improve with new coaching staff, specially a head coach who has shown he can do some magic with QBs of limited talent.

or do you go chasing for the next 5 years with a low probability of hitting on one, wasting the talent you already have and signed...

if we are to go chasing a QB in the draft, then top 10 is where you want to pick....and thus we need to suck and suck bad and grind our teeth and wait it out....but with the players on the roster and players we signed, sucking is going to take some bad coaching, perhaps if we kept garrett we might have accomplished that :)thumbdown:).....

so given the current situation....draft is not the answer, although I am not opposed to drafting QBs with some upside and develop them, ala DaNucci…..and if he doesn't work out, you draft another one...
 

CouchCoach

Staff member
Messages
41,122
Reaction score
74,900
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
What’s the solution from fans who say pay Dak what he wants then he and this highly paid offense isn’t enough to carry us deeper in the playoffs?
How about into the playoffs? The team had the #1 O in the NFL and an 8-8 record.

2019 was a flashback year as the top 2 offenses, the Cowboys and Bucs, with the 2 passing yardage leaders failed to make the playoffs.

The problem isn't just Prescott and what they'll have to pay him but the OL, RB, WR1 and not really addressing the defense after losing the two best players from 2019.

Posters are focusing too much attention on the QB when the real problem is Team Building 101. One of the challenges with a GM/owner is if he's a follow the ball guy, that's how he builds a team and that's fine for show but those are not the teams that accomplish much. A little flash goes a long way.

As fans, we have to rely on them getting lucky, like they did with the last 2 QB's, because they're just not really good at putting a consistent contender together. And if you trust them to do better than Prescott down the road, you need a history lesson.

And while everyone is oohing and ahhing about that 1st pick, what do you think a real team builder would have done with that pick? They've got the returning #1 O from 2019 and an 8-8 record. Booger couldn't pass on that, right? Got downright giddy about scoring with Lamb, really proud of himself. That's because he works for himself.
 

PAPPYDOG

There are no Dak haters just Cowboy lovers!!!
Messages
18,580
Reaction score
31,732
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Please never talk about football ever again. We beg you.

Don't subjugate others to such horrible opinions.

The same can be said about you and you're out of reality posts!
Now kiss that Quincy and Dak poster on your wall and goodnight!!
 

atlantacowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,076
Reaction score
24,789
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Just curious, for the “Don’t pay Dak” crowd what’s your solution for QB. This year and for the immediate short term. Play Dak on tag? Dalton? Trade? If so who?

Put Dak on the tag and see if he can lead a loaded offense to the playoffs and win some big games......without JG as an excuse. Dak was largely ineffective against good team's last year until garbage time/ prevent defense hour. ........ Do I think Andy Dalton can lead this team to 8-8 for a whole lot less money, you bet. If this team goes 8-8 or even 9-7 and doesn't win a playoff game, how do you justify paying a QB 35-40 million........100+ million guaranteed ? That would be essentially like signing up to be mediocre until you get out the contract.

I personally think the franchise will be better off in 3 years putting Dalton at Qb this year and perhaps being bad enough to get into the Trevor Lawrence/ Justin Fields derby next April.
 

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
55,142
Reaction score
36,328
How about into the playoffs? The team had the #1 O in the NFL and an 8-8 record.

2019 was a flashback year as the top 2 offenses, the Cowboys and Bucs, with the 2 passing yardage leaders failed to make the playoffs.

The problem isn't just Prescott and what they'll have to pay him but the OL, RB, WR1 and not really addressing the defense after losing the two best players from 2019.

Posters are focusing too much attention on the QB when the real problem is Team Building 101. One of the challenges with a GM/owner is if he's a follow the ball guy, that's how he builds a team and that's fine for show but those are not the teams that accomplish much. A little flash goes a long way.

As fans, we have to rely on them getting lucky, like they did with the last 2 QB's, because they're just not really good at putting a consistent contender together. And if you trust them to do better than Prescott down the road, you need a history lesson.

And while everyone is oohing and ahhing about that 1st pick, what do you think a real team builder would have done with that pick? They've got the returning #1 O from 2019 and an 8-8 record. Booger couldn't pass on that, right? Got downright giddy about scoring with Lamb, really proud of himself. That's because he works for himself.
And why I’m in the camp of paying Dak but not over paying him.
 

CouchCoach

Staff member
Messages
41,122
Reaction score
74,900
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Put Dak on the tag and see if he can lead a loaded offense to the playoffs and win some big games......without JG as an excuse. Dak was largely ineffective against good team's last year until garbage time/ prevent defense hour. ........ Do I think Andy Dalton can lead this team to 8-8 for a whole lot less money, you bet. If this team goes 8-8 or even 9-7 and doesn't win a playoff game, how do you justify paying a QB 35-40 million........100+ million guaranteed ? That would be essentially like signing up to be mediocre until you get out the contract.

I personally think the franchise will be better off in 3 years putting Dalton at Qb this year and perhaps being bad enough to get into the Trevor Lawrence/ Justin Fields derby next April.
I don't think Booger's ego would allow him to do that. While I agree that both of those QB's would probably be better than Prescott, the competition for them is going to be stiff.

Don't you get the feeling that the OL window is only going to be open for a couple of more years? I don't focus on much past the upcoming season with this brain trust.

The other factor here is selfishness. Older fans are more about now than the younger ones and losing to win isn't as enticing to us, just speaking for my own old self.
 

CouchCoach

Staff member
Messages
41,122
Reaction score
74,900
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
And why I’m in the camp of paying Dak but not over paying him.
Got to look at the payment, guaranteed, over the term of the contract and where QB salaries will be in 3-4 years.

Some feel Mahomes will set the ceiling but I am not so sure, it doesn't have as much to do with who is considered the best as who got the last deal. Prescott could be #1 this season and not even in the top 5 in 2021 and barely in the top 10 in 2022. When you consider just how far this has come in such a short period of time, there is no ceiling. If any team thinks they have their guy, or close enough to it, they're going to pull the trigger on the deal rather than take a chance.

And here's the kicker. All of these posters thinking paying Prescott prevents them from building that D. Well, what has been preventing them when he was a bargain. It is nothing more than an assumption that they would use the savings on Prescott on more effective players.

Greg, when I look at the track record of this team with QB's, SINCE 89, I don't know if overpaying Prescott even exists. Any other team? Maybe, but not this one and McClay was part of that brain trust that had Lynch and Cook ahead of Prescott.
 

LittleD

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,805
Reaction score
6,039
If Dak would (he won't) sign for 125mil for 5 year then do it Jerry...Else play him on the tag and give him the non-exclusive tag next season. Keep Andy and draft a new QB to take over down the line.
Never pay a 4th round QB big money... Dak may wind up being a coach killer.
 

CowboyoWales

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,575
Reaction score
4,028
How about into the playoffs? The team had the #1 O in the NFL and an 8-8 record.

2019 was a flashback year as the top 2 offenses, the Cowboys and Bucs, with the 2 passing yardage leaders failed to make the playoffs.

The problem isn't just Prescott and what they'll have to pay him but the OL, RB, WR1 and not really addressing the defense after losing the two best players from 2019.

Posters are focusing too much attention on the QB when the real problem is Team Building 101. One of the challenges with a GM/owner is if he's a follow the ball guy, that's how he builds a team and that's fine for show but those are not the teams that accomplish much. A little flash goes a long way.

As fans, we have to rely on them getting lucky, like they did with the last 2 QB's, because they're just not really good at putting a consistent contender together. And if you trust them to do better than Prescott down the road, you need a history lesson.

And while everyone is oohing and ahhing about that 1st pick, what do you think a real team builder would have done with that pick? They've got the returning #1 O from 2019 and an 8-8 record. Booger couldn't pass on that, right? Got downright giddy about scoring with Lamb, really proud of himself. That's because he works for himself.

Id love to hear how, in 2021, we construct a defence which'll need : ILB, DE/OLB, CB, S, with a budget of $40m.

Oh and that's not taking into account: Dak's money, VDE is fit and Diggs and Robinson ll both hit the ground running.
 

CouchCoach

Staff member
Messages
41,122
Reaction score
74,900
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Id love to hear how, in 2021, we construct a defence which'll need : ILB, DE/OLB, CB, S, with a budget of $40m.

Oh and that's not taking into account: Dak's money, VDE is fit and Diggs and Robinson ll both hit the ground running.
They haven't constructed a championship D in 25 years.

It's not how they think because they're not football people, they're show people. Defense isn't sexy like a high flying act in the center ring.

They are not going to fish in the deep water for D players in FA. So if that money is there, it will not be spent on that. They'd rather keep it and buy more toys.
 

Hennessy_King

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,623
Reaction score
25,418
It's defined at 35 AAV. That Offer is there for Dak, it's not defined at more then that. That's just the truth of it. Every other QB didn't sign a 4 year deal. Not even going to argue that with you. They signed extensions that added years to the existing which allows for more cap flexibility. With the Cowboys, they gotta make the numbers work with just 4 years and that's a lot harder to do. Hard to fault the team for not wanting to do that. But the original statement about market, he has a top of the market deal in front of him. If he decides not to sign it, that's his right but it's not true that the Cowboys are not offering him market. They are.
Yes but they got the extra year due to being first round picks, but the extension were 4 years
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top