Jonesitis of the Offense Has Infected Cowboy Fans

Stash · Jun 10, 2020

atlantacowboy said:
You started the absurdity by including Steve Walsh in a list of Cowboy Qbs. Walsh had "value" for the Saints, but for Dallas he was a wash at best.

I'm not criticizing Jimmy Johnson, but you can't throw out the draft picks we got for Walsh as if they came at no cost to us. That cost was the #1 overall pick in the 1990 draft. Did Jimmy know that at the time? It doesn't matter since we are having this convo using our 20/20 hindsight.

I agree. Including Walsh as some 'hit' was a mistake.

Diehardblues · Jun 10, 2020

If you can’t build a championship team a great Fantasy Team sure sells.

Diehardblues · Jun 10, 2020

atlantacowboy said:
You started the absurdity by including Steve Walsh in a list of Cowboy Qbs. Walsh had "value" for the Saints, but for Dallas he was a wash at best.

I'm not criticizing Jimmy Johnson, but you can't throw out the draft picks we got for Walsh as if they came at no cost to us. That cost was the #1 overall pick in the 1990 draft. Did Jimmy know that at the time? It doesn't matter since we are having this convo using our 20/20 hindsight.

True but the 3 picks we received for Walsh brought us Russell Maryland and Erik Williams which was great value for that #1 supplemental pick.

DenCWBY · Jun 10, 2020

eromeopolk said:
The majority of the post I see are about offensive players QB, RB, OL, TE, and WR. But the first pick in Dallas Cowboys draft History was DL Bob Lilly. The Cowboys have chosen with the 1st overall pick 1 QB and 2 DL. Both Landry and Jimmy Johnson selected DL with the no.1 overall pick in Ed Jones and Russell Maryland. The Cowboys famous Dirty Dozen draft was headlined by 1st round pick Randy White. The first significant Cowboys free agent signing was DB Deion Sanders. They traded for defensive players on other teams that are in the Ring of Honor (Chuck Howley and Charles Haley). One is the only Super Bowl MVP on a losing team and the other has the most Super Bowl Rings by a Defensive player.

So why Cowboy fans caught this infectious disease from Jerry Dumbo GM Jones about focus on offensive players? Defense wins championships. Jerry would not had a 3rd Super Bowl after firing Jimmy Johnson without Deion and win a 1st without Johnson trading for Charles Haley. How did those trades for Joey Galloway, and Roy Williams WR work out?

With all the hype about CeeDee Lamb, Cooper, Dak, Elliott, the OL, etc. who is going to stop the other team from scoring more points than the Cowboys and bring that Dallas Doomsday scenario for the 2020 season? The Cowboys will have 3 new starters in the secondary of which 2 could be rookies, 3 new starters on the DL of which none were on the team last year, played for losing teams, will be rookies, or 1st year starters. Neither Smith, Vander Esch, or Lee has started or completed the season as starters from the prior year (2 full seasons in a row together). When was the last time Cowboy fans said our defense makes us Super Bowl contenders?

So I do not know where this Super Bowl talk is coming from the Cowboy Village at the Star. The Cowboys need difference makers, game changers, and reliable (not off the team or in the tub) players on defense to challenge for a Super Bowl. Until you see that problem solved, there will be no joy in Cowboyville tonight.

Redball Express · Jun 10, 2020

big dog cowboy said:
Clearly you don't understand how the salary cap works. There will always be money available to sign their free agents and others. There is no salary cap hell and Dak's new deal won't cripple the team. This has been proven many times already these last few months.

I won't be a capologist in order to see how over paying for one position affects the overall results.

Cousins, Wilson, Rodgers, etc are all draining cap and rendering their teams less competitive.

When Mahomes gets his mega deal, you think that is going to make them better?

Nope.

They are going to start paying less and start looking for 2nd tier players they can afford with Mahomes now getting his new paycheck.

Rocket science?

Hardly.

So the devil is in the details.

That's where I come from. Not the nickels dimes and quarters of the cap slice.

Always a pleasure Big Dog.

Woof.

:grin:

conner01 · Jun 10, 2020

CowboyoWales said:
Dead right.

It's like having a strategy and changing with the environment.

Now we have drafted an elite WR (instead of much needed DEFENCE) …. which IMO was the correct decision, next question is DEFENCE.

Seeing as we projected going into 2020 with Coops/Gallup and now have Lamb focus on D (even looking at possible trades for Coops/Gallup).

Our Defensive problems are just around the corner.

I wanted defense but the draft is about talent
You can’t pass up much better talent for a position
Lamb was far better pick than any defensive player we could have got
Reaching for D or O or for a position causes bust
We reached for hill over better players
That said I think we added some good defensive players this year
It’s not just about the top pick

ABQCOWBOY · Jun 10, 2020

DeaconBlues said:
Nice you admitted the error. Most can’t or won’t.

But can you admit yours?

CowboyoWales · Jun 10, 2020

conner01 said:
I wanted defense but the draft is about talent
You can’t pass up much better talent for a position
Lamb was far better pick than any defensive player we could have got
Reaching for D or O or for a position causes bust
We reached for hill over better players
That said I think we added some good defensive players this year
It’s not just about the top pick

You did read the whole post? I was agreeing with you.

ABQCOWBOY · Jun 10, 2020

atlantacowboy said:
You started the absurdity by including Steve Walsh in a list of Cowboy Qbs. Walsh had "value" for the Saints, but for Dallas he was a wash at best.

I'm not criticizing Jimmy Johnson, but you can't throw out the draft picks we got for Walsh as if they came at no cost to us. That cost was the #1 overall pick in the 1990 draft. Did Jimmy know that at the time? It doesn't matter since we are having this convo using our 20/20 hindsight.

What your problem? You got a burr under your saddle for some reason but honestly, I don't give a crap. Take it out on your dog. I included Walsh in a post, that wasn't even addressed to you. Get over it. If you don't like Walsh, then go find a club that can match the rest. What I posted was still true. If you don't like Walsh, then pretend his name is not there.

This is not a conversation. This is you acting like a Jackwagon. Don't get that confused.

Good Lord........

Hennessy_King · Jun 10, 2020

eromeopolk said:
The majority of the post I see are about offensive players QB, RB, OL, TE, and WR. But the first pick in Dallas Cowboys draft History was DL Bob Lilly. The Cowboys have chosen with the 1st overall pick 1 QB and 2 DL. Both Landry and Jimmy Johnson selected DL with the no.1 overall pick in Ed Jones and Russell Maryland. The Cowboys famous Dirty Dozen draft was headlined by 1st round pick Randy White. The first significant Cowboys free agent signing was DB Deion Sanders. They traded for defensive players on other teams that are in the Ring of Honor (Chuck Howley and Charles Haley). One is the only Super Bowl MVP on a losing team and the other has the most Super Bowl Rings by a Defensive player.

So why Cowboy fans caught this infectious disease from Jerry Dumbo GM Jones about focus on offensive players? Defense wins championships. Jerry would not had a 3rd Super Bowl after firing Jimmy Johnson without Deion and win a 1st without Johnson trading for Charles Haley. How did those trades for Joey Galloway, and Roy Williams WR work out?

With all the hype about CeeDee Lamb, Cooper, Dak, Elliott, the OL, etc. who is going to stop the other team from scoring more points than the Cowboys and bring that Dallas Doomsday scenario for the 2020 season? The Cowboys will have 3 new starters in the secondary of which 2 could be rookies, 3 new starters on the DL of which none were on the team last year, played for losing teams, will be rookies, or 1st year starters. Neither Smith, Vander Esch, or Lee has started or completed the season as starters from the prior year (2 full seasons in a row together). When was the last time Cowboy fans said our defense makes us Super Bowl contenders?

So I do not know where this Super Bowl talk is coming from the Cowboy Village at the Star. The Cowboys need difference makers, game changers, and reliable (not off the team or in the tub) players on defense to challenge for a Super Bowl. Until you see that problem solved, there will be no joy in Cowboyville tonight.

Great post. They just don't invest in defense. We have no actual playmakers on that side of the ball and our abysmal coaching hasn't helped. We've screwed up players putting them in poor positions we don't move on from bums that the staff likes. Church, bumdrick, heath, ty craw come to mind. Keeping Lee around still who can't stay healthy a waste. Worst safety tandem in the league last year. Poor D line player acquisition. I can't remember the last time I ever even contemplated buying a defensive player's jersey.

mcmvp · Jun 10, 2020

I used to think defense wins championships...but the rules have changed too much to favor the offensive side of the ball. There wasn’t much defense being played in SB 52.

I do think teams should spend more cap money on offense these days. That doesn’t mean teams should treat their D like the red-headed stepchild of the family...but the rules just favor the offense these days.

kskboys · Jun 10, 2020

conner01 said:
I wanted defense but the draft is about talent
You can’t pass up much better talent for a position
Lamb was far better pick than any defensive player we could have got
Reaching for D or O or for a position causes bust
We reached for hill over better players
That said I think we added some good defensive players this year
It’s not just about the top pick

Yes and no. On the flipside of that, if you continuously ignore weaknesses over flash, you won't get better. Works both ways.

And, since we signed Poemac, the need was not near as great. And then we stole Galley in the 3rd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kskboys · Jun 10, 2020

mcmvp said:
I used to think defense wins championships...but the rules have changed too much to favor the offensive side of the ball. There wasn’t much defense being played in SB 52.

I do think teams should spend more cap money on offense these days. That doesn’t mean teams should treat their D like the red-headed stepchild of the family...but the rules just favor the offense these days.

KC completely shut down the 49ers O as KC mounted the comeback. Chris Jones was clearly the MVP of that game. I seriously don't know how you missed that.

CouchCoach · Jun 10, 2020

mcmvp said:
I used to think defense wins championships...but the rules have changed too much to favor the offensive side of the ball. There wasn’t much defense being played in SB 52.

I do think teams should spend more cap money on offense these days. That doesn’t mean teams should treat their D like the red-headed stepchild of the family...but the rules just favor the offense these days.

I think by just the nature of things, the O side will get the more $ because the salaries are so much greater on that side of the ball. However, I think the Cowboys are too far out of balance.

Has any team, in the cap era, had all three O skill positions at the top in salary? And this team went 8-8 with all 3 of those players last season. And the team ranked 1st in O.

If the paradigm has shifted, why did the top two O's miss the playoffs last season. That is exactly what used to happen.

Too many have had Boogeritis about that 90's team and put too much on the triplets when it was the D that was the dog and not the tail on that team. If not for a D player, James Washington, making the MVP play of the game, they might not have that ring because the triplets weren't doing squat up until then.

CouchCoach · Jun 10, 2020

kskboys said:
KC completely shut down the 49ers O as KC mounted the comeback. Chris Jones was clearly the MVP of that game. I seriously don't know how you missed that.

Same thing that people missed about the Packers in the NFCCG, that was not because of Rodgers.

kskboys · Jun 10, 2020

CouchCoach said:
Same thing that people missed about the Packers in the NFCCG, that was not because of Rodgers.

SF rode their D all the way to the super bowl, and almost won it. Should have. They went away from what got them there, the 2nd ranked rushing attack in the NFL. I think Garrett must have been on the headphones helping them out as they went PASSPASSPASS w/ the game on the line.

Typhus · Jun 10, 2020

Future said:
The Cowboys had way more talent across the board than that KC Super Bowl roster last year.

Better at DE, LB and CB by a lot. Thornhill didn't even play in the playoffs.

KC has the deal breaker, Mahomes all by himself overcomes most team issues.
Watch KC become the next NE,, Mahomes will get payed a kings ransom for a reason, not just because he is next man up.

mcmvp · Jun 10, 2020

CouchCoach said:
I think by just the nature of things, the O side will get the more $ because the salaries are so much greater on that side of the ball. However, I think the Cowboys are too far out of balance.

Has any team, in the cap era, had all three O skill positions at the top in salary? And this team went 8-8 with all 3 of those players last season. And the team ranked 1st in O.

If the paradigm has shifted, why did the top two O's miss the playoffs last season. That is exactly what used to happen.

Too many have had Boogeritis about that 90's team and put too much on the triplets when it was the D that was the dog and not the tail on that team. If not for a D player, James Washington, making the MVP play of the game, they might not have that ring because the triplets weren't doing squat up until then.

I guess that depends on how you define the top offenses. Yardage tells us very little.

ABQCOWBOY · Jun 10, 2020

Our Offense, to me, was not #1 in the NFL last year. They produced the most yards but they were only ranked 6th in points per game. To me, the Ravens had the best Offense last year, scoring 33+ points a game. It's really interesting if you break it down. We lead the league in yard per play at 6.5, 3rd in the league in 1st Downs made, 2nd in the league in 3rd Downs made, 2nd in the league in 3rd Down percentage, but 6th in scoring. So how can this be? Well, a lot of folks will probably look to turnovers and that would be fair. We were tied for 18th in the league at -1, not good. But if you look deeper, we were only 14th in the League in the Red Zone. 15th in actual Red Zone efficiency. 16th in Penalties but 8th in actual penalty yards so we were only average as far as committing penalties but the penalties we got were of the painful variety because we racked up the penalty yards against us. We also were not very efficient in terms of TOP, ranking 15th in the League. With an OL like ours and a RB like Zeke, we should be leading the league in that category every single season IMO.

This idea that our Offense was so good last year is a misnomer. We ran a verisimilar Offense last year and I don't really think you can say it's the lack of Defense. While it's true, the Defense did not dominate last year, the team was just OK in terms of actual scoring efficiency and down right bad in the Red Zone. That's not on the Defense, that's on the Offense.

CouchCoach · Jun 10, 2020

ABQCOWBOY said:
Our Offense, to me, was not #1 in the NFL last year. They produced the most yards but they were only ranked 6th in points per game. To me, the Ravens had the best Offense last year, scoring 33+ points a game. It's really interesting if you break it down. We lead the league in yard per play at 6.5, 3rd in the league in 1st Downs made, 2nd in the league in 3rd Downs made, 2nd in the league in 3rd Down percentage, but 6th in scoring. So how can this be? Well, a lot of folks will probably look to turnovers and that would be fair. We were tied for 18th in the league at -1, not good. But if you look deeper, we were only 14th in the League in the Red Zone. 15th in actual Red Zone efficiency. 16th in Penalties but 8th in actual penalty yards so we were only average as far as committing penalties but the penalties we got were of the painful variety because we racked up the penalty yards against us. We also were not very efficient in terms of TOP, ranking 15th in the League. With an OL like ours and a RB like Zeke, we should be leading the league in that category every single season IMO.

This idea that our Offense was so good last year is a misnomer. We ran a verisimilar Offense last year and I don't really think you can say it's the lack of Defense. While it's true, the Defense did not dominate last year, the team was just OK in terms of actual scoring efficiency and down right bad in the Red Zone. That's not on the Defense, that's on the Offense.

ABQ, I agree with you but the greatest misuse of anything on this forum is stats to prove or disprove a point.

My stance with stats is take them or leave them but take them all if you are going to use them. And this forum loves stats. Especially selective stats.

I watched a lot of NFL last year and neither the Cowboys nor the Bucs had the best offenses that I saw, wouldn't put either in the top 5. Stats is like looking at the stats for the Ravens, particularly that run game, and not watching them play to see how that happened.

Jonesitis of the Offense Has Infected Cowboy Fans

Stash

Diehardblues

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Diehardblues

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DenCWBY

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Redball Express

All Aboard!!!

conner01

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ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....

CowboyoWales

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ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....

Hennessy_King

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mcmvp

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kskboys

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kskboys

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CouchCoach

CouchCoach

kskboys

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Typhus

Captain Catfish

mcmvp

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ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....

CouchCoach