Twitter: PFF: Most forced missed tackles

aria

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My first time encountering him his defense turned into "how could you talk bad about a player on the cowboys and call yourself a cowboys fan makes no sense yadda yadda yadda"
Then I go to another thread and he's talking negatively about Dak lmao. It was so odd.
Lol, he said the exact same thing to me! I had no idea about his position on Dak but it’s starting to make sense now, he was trying to bait me into a Dak argument in a Zeke thread. He finally stopped after I told him if I wanted to argue about Dak I would do it in a Dak related thread.

The dude’s not all there.
 

aria

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Our OL has evolved/rolled over significantly since 2016 as well.
So the O line being statistically ranked #2 in run blocking last year wasn’t good enough for the spoiled diva? Would have loved to see how “elite” he is running behind the 25th ranked Giants O line last year.
 

joseephuss

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You're looking at it one dimensionally. The Cowboys had a total rushing yards of 2153 last season. trying to get 1600 on average from one guy is a good way to make the big money you just paid him a waste. The only team to have significantly more yards was Baltimore, and they had 140+ more attempts.

I said scrimmage yards, not just rushing yards. Yes, it would be a task to expect a running back to average 1600 rushing yards per season. It really isn't much to ask for an elite back to average 1500 to 1600 scrimmage yards per season. And Elliott has done so. It would be acceptable for that number to be lowered if a complimentary back is carrying some of that workload and producing. I'm all for Pollard helping this team more.
 

aria

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would've been 3 of 4 if not for the bs suspension
would've had 2000 yards his rookie year if he didn't get hosed on half of his breakaway runs
plays on a offense where no defense fears our QB


why do some people think if you're not #1 in every stat of every category for several consecutive seasons then you're just meh? lol
Since you, and others, seem to put the most emphasis on total yards when determining how “elite” a RB is, than would he stop being elite if he didn’t get as many carries because we passed the ball more and therefore he didn’t get as many carries and yards?

Would he still be elite if we had a bottom 10, or even bottom 20, run blocking line and he didn’t get near the same yards he’s used to because he was constantly getting hit in the backfield or didn’t have the room to run that he does now?
 

Cebrin

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I said scrimmage yards, not just rushing yards. Yes, it would be a task to expect a running back to average 1600 rushing yards per season. It really isn't much to ask for an elite back to average 1500 to 1600 scrimmage yards per season. And Elliott has done so. It would be acceptable for that number to be lowered if a complimentary back is carrying some of that workload and producing. I'm all for Pollard helping this team more.
Me too, and Dak as well. We have a good tandem. Hopefully it is used better going forward.
 

Cebrin

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So the O line being statistically ranked #2 in run blocking last year wasn’t good enough for the spoiled diva? Would have loved to see how “elite” he is running behind the 25th ranked Giants O line last year.
The margin of difference between his numbers, and Henry who led the league last year is pretty small. Not sure your angle here, other than you just don't like Zeke. Zeke if not suspended would have had the rushing title 3 out of 4 years, even with a consistently banged up OL. Heck, if not for drafting Pollard, he may have gotten it last year. Can't blame you. Zeke is kind of annoying.
 

InTheZone

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Since you, and others, seem to put the most emphasis on total yards when determining how “elite” a RB is, than would he stop being elite if he didn’t get as many carries because we passed the ball more and therefore he didn’t get as many carries and yards?

Would he still be elite if we had a bottom 10, or even bottom 20, run blocking line and he didn’t get near the same yards he’s used to because he was constantly getting hit in the backfield or didn’t have the room to run that he does now?
1. why are you coming to this conclusion that yards=talent?...we're not the dak fan club, we don't base our opinion on zeke because of "total yards". I've already argued points before discussing yards after contact and ypc despite having more carries than most others (usually ypc is higher the less carries you have over a season). Feel free to look that up, Zeke was no slouch in that category. Funny how Gurley was the most overrated in that stat and it's showing all too well since he was tossed away when he couldn't even take advantage of those gaps.

And if I heard the o-line was the reason for all of Daks sacks and failures in 2018 then surely the o-line was a problem for Zeke.

what other examples do you want? The point of mentioning top yards in 2 of 4 seasons, potentially 3 is to show consistency.

some of you need to stop fitting your own conclusions of what someone said when it wasn't the meaning. It's like when people get on me if I critque dak in any way, the response is "oh you think Dak is the worst qb ever?"
 

QuincyCarterEra

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1. why are you coming to this conclusion that yards=talent?...we're not the dak fan club, we don't base our opinion on zeke because of "total yards". I've already argued points before discussing yards after contact. Feel free to look that up, Zeke was no slouch in that category. Funny how Gurley was the most overrated in that stat and it's showing all too well since he was tossed away when he couldn't even take advantage of those gaps.

And if I heard the o-line was the reason for all of Daks sacks and failures in 2018 then surely the o-line was a problem for Zeke.

what other examples do you want? The point of mentioning top yards in 2 of 4 seasons, potentially 3 is to show consistency.

some of you need to stop fitting your own conclusions of what someone said when it wasn't the meaning. It's like when people get on me if I critque dak in any way, the response is "oh you think Dak is the worst qb ever?"

Anybody understand this?
Anybody?
Yeah, me neither.
 

Mr_437

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Zeke is my guy, glad he's the Cowboys RB!

On topic, all I saw on that list was Chris Carson and how I wanted the Cowboys to draft him. Mane, Zeke n Carson would've been a tough duo.

Chubb is a monster in the making.
 

aria

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The margin of difference between his numbers, and Henry who led the league last year is pretty small. Not sure your angle here, other than you just don't like Zeke. Zeke if not suspended would have had the rushing title 3 out of 4 years, even with a consistently banged up OL. Heck, if not for drafting Pollard, he may have gotten it last year. Can't blame you. Zeke is kind of annoying.
I don’t like Zeke as a person but that is completely separate from my criticism of him as a player.

I’m not saying he’s not a good back but he wasn’t worth a #4 overall pick (no RB is IMO) and his contract certainly wasn’t worth it.

Consistently banged up O line? Lol, c’mon now. Here are the statistical rankings for O line run blocking since his rookie year. There’s only one other team that has been near that consistent, Zeke has been spoiled his entire college and pro career. As I said, most top 15-20 RB’s in the league would have had similar success in his position.

2016- 4th
2017- 8th
2018- 4th
2019- 2nd

I just don’t get how people say he is the best and only use his total yards as a measuring tool which is one of the most misleading and pointless stats when measuring how good a RB is overall.

He is 5-10th in several more significant categories, and even much worse than others but none of his supporters want to acknowledge that. Just like when he has a good game it’s all Zeke, with no mention of the O line, yet when he has a bad game it’s always the O lines fault. The excuses have become so bad that even the 2nd best run blocking O line in the league isn’t good enough!

Just imagine what some of those RB’s that beat Zeke is yards after contact, missed tackles forced, yards per carry, yards from line of scrimmage, etc would do behind this O line. Likewise, I’d like to see how great he is behind a pedestrian or below average O line. If people are making excuses for him with the O lines he’s had, I’d shudder to think what they would say if he had anything worse yet I don’t see Barkley or a handful of other RB’s getting that excuse and he’s had one of the worst O lines in the league!

Speaking of...imagine what Barkley would have done behind this O line if he had that much room to run! Sure, he has his faults as well, but if he had the same room to run zeke has had he would be taking it to the house every other play.
 

aria

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1. why are you coming to this conclusion that yards=talent?...we're not the dak fan club, we don't base our opinion on zeke because of "total yards". I've already argued points before discussing yards after contact and ypc despite having more carries than most others (usually ypc is higher the less carries you have over a season). Feel free to look that up, Zeke was no slouch in that category. Funny how Gurley was the most overrated in that stat and it's showing all too well since he was tossed away when he couldn't even take advantage of those gaps.

And if I heard the o-line was the reason for all of Daks sacks and failures in 2018 then surely the o-line was a problem for Zeke.

what other examples do you want? The point of mentioning top yards in 2 of 4 seasons, potentially 3 is to show consistency.

some of you need to stop fitting your own conclusions of what someone said when it wasn't the meaning. It's like when people get on me if I critque dak in any way, the response is "oh you think Dak is the worst qb ever?"
What is it with people constantly bringing up Dak in Zeke threads? This isn’t a Dak thread but since you mentioned it I’ll give you a quick lesson on the O line.

Run blocking and pass blocking are two different things, some players excel at one more than the other, therefore a team as a whole can be better at pass blocking than run blocking or vice versa. Therefore saying Dak benefits as much from the O line as Zeke isn’t necessarily true or may not even be close to true . Got it?

I’ll leave you with this...you brought up 2018 as an example of how Dak should benefit from the O line as much as Zeke.

2018 run blocking rank- 8th
2018 pass blocking rank- 28th

See the difference there?

What else do I want? I’ve stated that several times, including in this thread. How about fumbles? Yards per carry? O LINES!? Yards after catch? Yards after contact? Forced misses? Yards from scrimmage? 20+ yard runs?

I could go on...to me, those are statistics and things to take into consideration when evaluating how good a RB is, not just total yards which is very misleading. Not taking into account O lines is one of the biggest reasons that stat is misleading.
 

Cebrin

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I don’t like Zeke as a person but that is completely separate from my criticism of him as a player.

I’m not saying he’s not a good back but he wasn’t worth a #4 overall pick (no RB is IMO) and his contract certainly wasn’t worth it.

Consistently banged up O line? Lol, c’mon now. Here are the statistical rankings for O line run blocking since his rookie year. There’s only one other team that has been near that consistent, Zeke has been spoiled his entire college and pro career. As I said, most top 15-20 RB’s in the league would have had similar success in his position.

2016- 4th
2017- 8th
2018- 4th
2019- 2nd

I just don’t get how people say he is the best and only use his total yards as a measuring tool which is one of the most misleading and pointless stats when measuring how good a RB is overall.

He is 5-10th in several more significant categories, and even much worse than others but none of his supporters want to acknowledge that. Just like when he has a good game it’s all Zeke, with no mention of the O line, yet when he has a bad game it’s always the O lines fault. The excuses have become so bad that even the 2nd best run blocking O line in the league isn’t good enough!

Just imagine what some of those RB’s that beat Zeke is yards after contact, missed tackles forced, yards per carry, yards from line of scrimmage, etc would do behind this O line. Likewise, I’d like to see how great he is behind a pedestrian or below average O line. If people are making excuses for him with the O lines he’s had, I’d shudder to think what they would say if he had anything worse yet I don’t see Barkley or a handful of other RB’s getting that excuse and he’s had one of the worst O lines in the league!

Speaking of...imagine what Barkley would have done behind this O line if he had that much room to run! Sure, he has his faults as well, but if he had the same room to run zeke has had he would be taking it to the house every other play.

A fair argument, though none of them had the Carrot for a head coach either. :( Another fair point, is that outside of Henry, the 2016 RB pool wasn't that great, and after losing our starter, it was certainly a glaring hole. I wasn't stoked about a RB at 4 either, but once Wentz went off the board Zeke was my next best man, personally. I liked Henry, but I tend to prefer shorter backs for longevity. I don't think Zeke deserved the giant payday he got, but here we are.
 

Johnny23

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Quincy's just ruined we didn't draft my boy Jalen Ramsey. It's his mission in life to trash Zeke at every turn.

Either way being 4th on that list isn't a bad thing.
 

Bullflop

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Zeke, indeed, might well have lost something of his speed, as many of us have said. Despite that, his power and strength are still as prevalent as ever. There's no doubt that the number of forced missed tackles is living proof of that obvious fact. The running game for Dallas is still a viable threat and the passing game is quite likely to improve, as well, with the further development of Dak and the excellent corps of receivers that now exist. Assuming the defense improves as it should, it'll be interesting to see where these betterments take this team. Despite the fact that I'm keeping my expectations moderate, it doesn't mean great things aren't truly possible. Here's hoping a healthy and very fruitful season lies ahead. Do I hear an Amen? :D
 
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