The long-term future of the RE position

FuzzyLumpkins

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He absolutely Peter Principle'd as a Head Coach. But my issue is with the statement that he only had two wins in player development.

He's developed players his whole career. He even had Selvie making plays.

You also cannot discount what's been done with the LB and DB.

Just keep him far away from personnel meetings.
 

quickccc

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they will either can . or will go two or three routes .. draft a young DE early, ...trade for a vet DE ala Quinn ..or do an DE bargain based FA experiment ala Benson Mayawa.

- they will not likely sign over a Clowney or Griffin, unless they get a 1 year prove it deal , imo.
Something that i think a 32 yr old Griffin (who will be 33 yr in Dec.) will not do. at that age, he has got to have his last contract be a huge one, i'd be shocked otherwise.

- Gregory has missed so many years, so many games, and still so inexperienced,that he's still in a developmental stage at age 27.
Only good things is he hasn't had any major injuries and he doesn't have a lot of wear and tear on his body. And if folks look extensively at his game tape, he is a great deal better vs run than the departed Quinn.
He has the physical ability and knack for stretching out the run, despite his 250+ pound frame.

But since he's yet to be in an NFL full year strength programming and still inexperienced, i'd
be skeptical about starting him right off the bat, and we'd certain have to have quality subs/rotation guys
in his place.

i dunno if Gregory is the long term, but especially considering his outstanding skill set, and new league
policy that is much more lenient vs his persistent issues with marijuana usage, i'm willing to believe they
will try to make every use of his remaining years here as much as they can.

o_O
 

Cowboyny

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It was definitely time for Marinelli to move on but in fairness he did gets solid seasons out of Antwuan Woods, David Irving, Terrell McClain, George Selvie and Jeremy Mincey when all those guys were acquired off the scrap heap.

Marinelli's failings were as a DC, not in developing defensive linemen.

Probably all those signings were due to the pro scouts. I believe the front office gave him too much authority regards with the draft picks.
 

quickccc

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Probably all those signings were due to the pro scouts. I believe the front office gave him too much authority regards with the draft picks.

front office gave whom too much authority ?

McClay ? .... because if it's anything regarding free agency, trades and money, front office VP and
head of player director Stephen Jones is right there leading the operations and more responsible
than anyone.
 

Kaiser

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Probably all those signings were due to the pro scouts. I believe the front office gave him too much authority regards with the draft picks.

Drafting his pet cats is a different issue than your original statement that he only had DLaw and Crawford work out. The guys I listed were practice squad guys (Woods and Irving), a guy in McClain that wasn't on any roster and then Mincey, a C list bargain free agent.

Marinelli had his faults as a DC but he clearly did well in the DL coach role. The guys I listed were all scrap heap players that he turned into something.

The anomaly there is obviously Taco, but everyone had him rated around his draft position. And since Miami gave up on him also you have to think the issue is entirely between Taco's ears.
 
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fivetwos

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I can't think of few teams that have two highly paid defensive ends. And even fewer SUCCESSFUL teams that do.
With the salary cap, there are certain positions where you just have to figure it out without having a solid option on paper.

The fanbase has been conditioned to need a stud at each position to have a chance.

While its remarkable we came fairly close, its equally frustrating that we had a staff that did less with more than any in NFL history.

Hopefully some of that can be salvaged.

Funny how Jerry wants to do things his way, that doesnt work, then he gives in. To what extent this time remains to be seen. Its unreal actually.

If this team ever wins itll be in spite of him, not because of him.
 

buybuydandavis

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The right defensive end position seems to be a revolving door on a yearly basis; Greg Hardy, Randy Gregory, Taco Charlton, Robert Quinn, Aldon Smith. The front office has tried to address the position via the draft with zero success. Taco we are all are aware of, but the likes of Charles Tapper, Ben Gardner, Ryan Russell, Dorance Armstrong. Rod Marinelli was considered prior to coming to the Cowboys as one of the best in developing young DL Talent. Outside of Lawrence and maybe Crawford, very little success at the position.

This year many like the idea of drafting Chaisson from LSU as he would finally address the need long-term. However, he did come attached with legitimate question marks with production. Edge rushers are always in high demand, they are often overdrafted and come with a high bust rate. It's also a position in which there is a lot of development on this level, as they can no longer just rely on their athletic abilities against NFL caliber Tackles.

Many will argue this position is more important then any other on the entire unit. The best defensive teams are the ones who can generate a pass rush without the need to blitz. It puts way too much pressure on the back end and no team can be successful if a NFL QB has the time.

If Gregory comes through this year, I expect we extend him in the next offseason.
 

Cowboyny

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If Gregory comes through this year, I expect we extend him in the next offseason.

We need to get him reinstated first and see how he performs on and off the field. The team still maintains his rights after next season, so they have time to make a decision. Good pass rushers make over 10 million annually, not sure if they would make such a commitment to a player with his history off the field.
 

Cowboyny

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Drafting his pet cats is a different issue than your original statement that he only had DLaw and Crawford work out. The guys I listed were practice squad guys (Woods and Irving), a guy in McClain that wasn't on any roster and then Mincey, a C list bargain free agent.

Marinelli had his faults as a DC but he clearly did well in the DL coach role. The guys I listed were all scrap heap players that he turned into something.

The anomaly there is obviously Taco, but everyone had him rated around his draft position. And since Miami gave up on him also you have to think the issue is entirely between Taco's ears.

We have to give Marinelli some credit, as he did get some of the lower tier players to become effective, rotational type of guys. I believe McClain was actually a fa signing at the time. Woods, Selvie, Mincey were all productive, but none were ever considered anything more then low-priced, bridge type players. Matter of fact, none received 2nd contracts, including Irvin who self-destructed and quit on his team.

Marinelli and the team's strategy of taking NT's late was a disaster. I can't remember one actually making the team. How many defensive lineman draft picks failed under this regime, almost everyone of them! The draft is all about developing future starters, outside of the 2 mentioned, he failed to do so over such a long period of time.
 

John813

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Drafting his pet cats is a different issue than your original statement that he only had DLaw and Crawford work out. The guys I listed were practice squad guys (Woods and Irving), a guy in McClain that wasn't on any roster and then Mincey, a C list bargain free agent.

Marinelli had his faults as a DC but he clearly did well in the DL coach role. The guys I listed were all scrap heap players that he turned into something.

The anomaly there is obviously Taco, but everyone had him rated around his draft position. And since Miami gave up on him also you have to think the issue is entirely between Taco's ears.

I agree Rod was good at getting average to decent play from low ceiling but hard working guys*.

The Taco thing makes me wonder if they asked/pushed him enough mentally during the combine/visits etc or were there flags but they thought it wouldn't be an issue once he got into the NFL. Cause back in 2017 I doubt they thought D-Law would blossom like he did and Taco would of probably been starting/getting more snaps at LDE his rookie year. No one really complains when they are given a spot and are playing. But obviously he didn't take it well that he was destined to be a backup/breather for D-Law.


*Irving IIRC was talented, but fell in the draft to undrafted due to being dismissed from the team his last year there. also had some off the field issues too. The guy had talent, but something was missing mentally.
 

Cowboyny

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front office gave whom too much authority ?

McClay ? .... because if it's anything regarding free agency, trades and money, front office VP and
head of player director Stephen Jones is right there leading the operations and more responsible
than anyone.

Front office gave Marinelli too much authority in the draft room.
 

John813

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Front office gave Marinelli too much authority in the draft room.

It was probably a blessing in disguise early on. McClay was promoted to where he's at now due to Rod rocking the boat on draft day in 2013 over disagreeing with the scouts over S. Floyd.
By 2017 he should of been left at home lol.
 

Cowboyny

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It was probably a blessing in disguise early on. McClay was promoted to where he's at now due to Rod rocking the boat on draft day in 2013 over disagreeing with the scouts over S. Floyd.
By 2017 he should of been left at home lol.

I understand it was a organization decision on the draft selections, but they gave him way too much weight. He proved to be a poor evaluator of talent and the front office was better served relying more on the scouts.
 

Stash

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I understand it was a organization decision on the draft selections, but they gave him way too much weight. He proved to be a poor evaluator of talent and the front office was better served relying more on the scouts.

Undeniable.

The two significant draft picks that the team gave Marinelli huge input on are the worst this team has had in a decade - Taco Charlton and Trysten Hill.

Marinelli may have been able to get moderate production out of scrubs, but he sure couldn't identify actual talent, even when it was staring him in the face like TJ Watt.
 

Cowboyny

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Undeniable.

The two significant draft picks that the team gave Marinelli huge input on are the worst this team has had in a decade - Taco Charlton and Trysten Hill.

Marinelli may have been able to get moderate production out of scrubs, but he sure couldn't identify actual talent, even when it was staring him in the face like TJ Watt.

M. Collins was another handpicked player from Marinelli. He had an injury plagued career and never became an impact player.
 

Stash

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M. Collins was another handpicked player from Marinelli. He had an injury plagued career and never became an impact player.

I thought Collins flashed and had a good start to his career, but he never developed consistency and was on many occasions a liability against the run.
 

Cowboyny

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I thought Collins flashed and had a good start to his career, but he never developed consistency and was on many occasions a liability against the run.

He was a decent starter when healthy, but wasn't good enough to earn a 2nd contract. Never became that impact, 3T in which the team envisioned from him.
 

Kaiser

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We have to give Marinelli some credit, as he did get some of the lower tier players to become effective, rotational type of guys. I believe McClain was actually a fa signing at the time. Woods, Selvie, Mincey were all productive, but none were ever considered anything more then low-priced, bridge type players. Matter of fact, none received 2nd contracts, including Irvin who self-destructed and quit on his team.
.

Not true.

McClain had been out of football for a year and a half, he was a FA in the sense that he was sitting on his couch at home. After he played for Dallas he signed a 4 year contract for 21 Million in Washington.

Selvie was on his couch too and gave the Cowboys 7 sacks in his first season, he signed with the Giants after he left Dallas.

Mincey was a low cost signing that gave Dallas a very solid season when he signed.

Irving was signed off the Chiefs practice squad and gave them a season with 7 sacks in 8 games. His problems are well known but every team would love to make moves like that.
 
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