Comparing Zeke to HOF RBs

Super_Kazuya

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Emmitt played 9 more years after he was 26. That's about twice as long as the average NFL career. So your saying a player last 9 years in the league who wasn't really any good. Hmmmmmm.
If only there was a way to check and see how Emmitt did during those years. If only there was a way for me to see that among 38 qualifying backs from 1996-2004, Emmitt was 30th in yards per attempt with a paltry 3.9 yards per carry. If only there was a way to see that over the same span, Emmitt was 20th in rushing yards per game, 34th in receiving yards per game and dead last in yards per catch. If only there was a way to see that besides being a warm body, Emmitt was far below the production that a league average back created during that time span. If only there was some kind of tool one could use to look all this up.
 

conner01

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Zeke is off to a HOF career but has a long way to go
I don’t see Zeke playing into his 30’s
 

aria

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Several games we abandoned the run too early and got pass happy.
And then people would and do say (including in this very thread) that we used him too often, we’re too predictable, wearing him down, etc.

Then if they don’t give him the ball enough people complain even more that we didn’t give our best offensive player the ball enough and the coaches were dumb for not using him more. Just like when it’s 4th and short, zeke gets the ball, gets stuffed and then fans complain how obvious it was, should have never given him the ball, blah blah blah but when they don’t give him the ball on 4th and short they complain that he should have got it.
 
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aria

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o_O
He seems to have lost his burst. He appears to be looking for contact rather than trying to find openings to explode out of.

Last season against a banged up Lions defense. Ewok just averaged 2.8 yards per attempt. His longest run was an almighty 8 yards. Then he took himself out in Philly vs the Egals which caused a disaster. The list goes on.

He's not the same since his big payday. Comparing him to HOFers is an insult to the hard work and dedication each one of them gave while playing in the league. Unless Ewok does a complete 360', I see his stats tumbling even more in the future.
Some good points and I’ll add this...even if zeke never gets injured, I don’t think he has the mentality to want to keep playing and training.

Most of those HOF’ers had passion for the game and it was obvious, I don’t see that at all with zeke. I see a quitter, someone who can’t handle adversity, someone who would give up or not try if the circumstances weren’t ideal (playing behind a mediocre O line) and someone who is playing for the paycheck, not the love of the game.
 

aria

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Would you rather have someone like Barkley who dances around and gets hit at the line of scrimmage but bursts out a huge play every game

Or

Someone like zeke who is a chain moving punishing back. You can hit him at the line but hes going to pick up 2 yards.

Ide rather have a grinder moving the chains then someone who has like 30yards rushing the entire game then all of a sudden rips a 50yard run
Mostly incorrect. Barkley has a tendency to dance around more because he is trying to make something out of nothing. Instead of running into a brick wall because there is no hole for him, he’s forced to try and dance around. Zeke would probably just run into the backs of his O linemen and fall down.

Barkley would also kill Zeke’s stats behind this O line. With the room zeke has to run, Barkley would be getting a lot more yards due to his speed and elusiveness. It’s amazing Barkley got as many yards as he did his rookie year behind one of the worst lines in the league and last year he was playing with a high ankle sprain most of the season behind another horrendous O line.

Zeke isn’t nearly as good at short yard situations as you think, IMOF he’s not even top 10 most of the time. Did you read the article I posted in this thread about that very subject? Barkley beats Zeke in yards after contact, yards after catch, forced tackled missed, broken tackles, elusiveness, speed...pretty much every category but total yards and total carries which is only due to coaching.

Here’s that article in case you missed it
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ezekiel-elliott-is-not-worth-the-money-he-wants/
 

Kingofholland

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i guess you and i see Zeke differently.
Backs with just " adequate " speed don't post 83 yard and 72 yard TD screens, you don't see 60 yard TD runs as we saw him make in 2016 as a rookie.

what made zeke special enough to make him the 4th overall pick in 2016, was his combination of size, power, one cut vision, receiving skills and breakaway home run speed, plus he is a heckuva blitz-blocker.
- NFL.com had him compared to Edgrin James so i'm guessing that's where you're James to Zeke

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/ezekiel-elliott/3219454c-4c28-9284-cdcc-74694c8d1749

i don't expect zeke to have barkley like elusiveness, he won't make a number of defenders miss and whiff in the open field as a Barkley does. And that's both runner and receiver.
Like an Adrian Peterson, he's a one cut runner . He gets a deep hand off , he feels for hole and opening, make that one cut accordingly and boom he's gone to the house. ..
..
That's what a Peterson did,, that's also what kind of ball barrier zeke is. Also several defensive players have
said how zeke punishes you and wears you down as a ball carrier. He's an angry runner who takes on tacklers
and has such powerful, hard churning load that he is always moving forward.
And underrated is his terrific knack and competitiveness for the goal line end zone.

But this zeke version does not have that splash run speed that he came in with at 2016, and we have to get that back.plus better scheme design for him with deep hand offs from center vs these RPO draw plays we went way too much, imo.

I think he has enough speed to occasionally rip off big runs but he's not going to be a threat to take it to the house every time he gets the ball. Emmitt wasn't that type of runner either but still made a big impact. I do believe Zeke will continue to have a great career, but it's going to be those extra yards between the tackles and grinding out in the 4th quarter. I'm perfectly fine with that provided we have speed in other areas which I believe we do.
 

JohnsKey19

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I obviously didn’t do a very good job of setting this post up...but my intention was to see where most fans think Zeke will end up among some of the greats. It’s seems like many people just see the name Zeke and start firing “agenda” opinions, which is fine...I guess. But I am curious if anyone had an opinion associated with the info presented- such as how Zeke will end up vs the greats.

I believe he finishes his career with the Cowboys with 2 productive seasons and a total around 8000 yards, then bounces around the league for a few seasons finishing his career around 9500 yards. Ultimately remembered as a very good NFL RB. Not a HOFer, but similar to guys like Matt Forte or Shaun Alexander.
 

quickccc

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I think he has enough speed to occasionally rip off big runs but he's not going to be a threat to take it to the house every time he gets the ball. Emmitt wasn't that type of runner either but still made a big impact. I do believe Zeke will continue to have a great career, but it's going to be those extra yards between the tackles and grinding out in the 4th quarter. I'm perfectly fine with that provided we have speed in other areas which I believe we do.

If you're talking about the current Zeke who no longer seems to have that splash burst he came into the NFL with in 2016, yes, he's not near as threatening. He'll have a ton of 10 yarders, a few 20 yarders and maybe one 40 yard for entire year.

- But if you're saying Zeke was never a threat to take it the distance because he was never that kind of runner, then that's when i'm in disagreement.

-Emmitt and zeke were two totally different runners, . the home run speed was a staple of zeke coming out of Ohio State, ...that was never Emmitt..
There is no one that saw and really studied zeke both at OSU and his first two years in NFL, that can say zeke was not gonna be a threat to take it to the house.

- Emmitt's style was made for more elusive, multi-cut bobbing and weaving style, and which every astute observer knows Emmitt was particularly an inside- the- tackle runner, running him on sweeps and ptich-outs was never his game, but Zeke easily offered more outside speed than Emmitt.

-You won't see Smith taking 70-80 yard screen passes to the house on - but per 2016/2017 that element was indeed in Zeke's ability..
.
-You won't see Emmitt hurdling over whiffing in air defenders, which were a regularity highlight his first 2 years, that element was in Zekes game. ...until now.

You may be fine and content with a methodical in-between the tackles pounder with Zeke.. but i'm not.
We already had that with Demarco Murray if we chosen to re-sign him, and i could have gotten that with a Derrick Henry with our pick 2nd round pick, who actually flashes surprising splash distance speed for someone his massive size. But home run splash speed was part of the combination was suppose to make Zeke a special combination, ..imo.
 

DoctorChicken

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Say whatever you want about Zeke his career has gone downhill since his rookie year.

Its abundantly obvious that his rookie success was a product of the best Oline in football.

Zeke simply isn't as good as we all thought he was. It was fools gold. And on top of it all the guy is a immature moron that is anything but a leader for this team.

He needs LOTS of carries to be productive. When it comes to dominating games and making big plays it rarely happens.

But yah, he is tough and he is a good blocker. :muttley:

Great, I have eyeball cancer after reading this.
 

SteveTheCowboy

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CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Would you rather have someone like Barkley who dances around and gets hit at the line of scrimmage but bursts out a huge play every game

Or

Someone like zeke who is a chain moving punishing back. You can hit him at the line but hes going to pick up 2 yards.

Ide rather have a grinder moving the chains then someone who has like 30yards rushing the entire game then all of a sudden rips a 50yard run


AH! Perfect! So low number of carries but a couple pop offs must be the perfect back for roy. :confused:
 

aria

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It’s mind boggling how many people say they want zeke for those “short yard” plays when his stats show he isn’t even top 10 in those categories. Even if he was, you could get guys much cheaper do to just as an effective job, you don’t pay a RB the most for that position to “grind out” a few yards.
 

fivetwos

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The Zeke critics are the same people who make every excuses for most of our players and fails..." but Garret". Garret's been responsible for calling stupid up the gut plays....or 4 straight passing plays on 1st and goal at the one. There's been some missed blocking...and but of course some missed opportunities on Zeke's part...like every single other player.

Then a few gems like "Zeke benefits from the 3 first round o-line but Dak doesn't"...as they cherry pick the stats from one year. And "he's only great because of amount of carries"...as you can find Emmitt with more carries in several seasons...and about the same give or take in several others.

We should all be bro-hugging the departure of Garret yet here we sit hating on our own players...and GOOD ones to boot.

Let's clean the slate, and see if MM can operate this potent offense to it's full potential by confusing defenses, instead of spoon feeding them everything.

And zeke better come in ready to roll...none of this Cabo Fat stuff!
As not a fan of Elliott himself (but I certainly root for the guy wearing 21 during the games), I can get on board with this.

Well said.

Key part is your last sentence and I dont trust him to put team first. It's been all about him thus far.
 

jterrell

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Zeke is currently 4th all-time in yards per game.

That's an insane pace.
It seems unlikely to hold up we also are about to see an entirely new offense which is truly loaded.
Zeke may be more impactful with less carries.

I think a lot of Dallas fans are still butthurt that he held out last year because there will always be a segment of fans like that.
Fans hated Emmitt for his hold out too.

I'm not sure Zeke was 100% last year after the long holdout and missing so much time but he was still 4th in rushing yards and 5th in total yards from scrimmage.
He was still in the elite group even in a worst of career season.

I think it is very fair to project him at slightly better than last year.
Something around 1450 rushing yards, 4.7 YPC with fewer passing targets but better depth on average when targeted.
That would likely place him in the top 70 all-time of rushing yardage.

As to the weird fat cracks, Murray found his golden era by drinking 16 pounds of water before games. Two full gallons.
He'd shed it during games but the added water weight wore teams down and as he shed weight and became quicker in game they were beaten up.
Heavier backs really aren't a problem.
Speed was only 1 of Zeke's 5 tools and the one that fades the quickest anyway.
 

aria

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Zeke is currently 4th all-time in yards per game.

That's an insane pace.
It seems unlikely to hold up we also are about to see an entirely new offense which is truly loaded.
Zeke may be more impactful with less carries.

I think a lot of Dallas fans are still butthurt that he held out last year because there will always be a segment of fans like that.
Fans hated Emmitt for his hold out too.

I'm not sure Zeke was 100% last year after the long holdout and missing so much time but he was still 4th in rushing yards and 5th in total yards from scrimmage.
He was still in the elite group even in a worst of career season.

I think it is very fair to project him at slightly better than last year.
Something around 1450 rushing yards, 4.7 YPC with fewer passing targets but better depth on average when targeted.
That would likely place him in the top 70 all-time of rushing yardage.

As to the weird fat cracks, Murray found his golden era by drinking 16 pounds of water before games. Two full gallons.
He'd shed it during games but the added water weight wore teams down and as he shed weight and became quicker in game they were beaten up.
Heavier backs really aren't a problem.
Speed was only 1 of Zeke's 5 tools and the one that fades the quickest anyway.
What are his other 4 tools? Purses and belly shirts don’t count.
 
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