The TE position, OJ Howard. other options

fivetwos said:

A big part of what you have an issue with was the last staff's blind loyalty to Witten.

He clearly had nothing left yet they stuck with him.

Realistically, the GM should have not allowed him to come back, but that's not how things work in Dallas.

Everyone is friends first, what's best for the team is somewhere behind that in the pecking order.

Hopefully thats changed, but extremely doubtful.

Players will be forced on MM among other things.

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Verdict said:

Couple of things:

1. Witten absolutely sucked. The water boy would have been an upgrade over him. And yes, I’m serious about it.
2. Jarwin is not green. He is a guy who can catch the ball and stretch a defense but he’s probably not a great inline blocker. But he can’t be any worse than Witten was as a blocker.
3. Howard is not worth much more than a late round pick, if that. There is a reason why they paid Brate and Gronk.
4. It would be nice to have Witten in his prime lining up this year for us, but that guy is not on the roster.
5. Jarwin is a better receiving tight end than Witten was. If he can block a little bit he will be better than Witten was the last half of his career.

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CowboysFaninHouston said:

I don't think Witten was as bad as people say. He wasn't that good, more 15-20 range in the NFL..

I think Jarwin is still green, he can stretch a defense, but there is more to TE position than running the seam route against the giants. outside of the giants he has been very meh....statistics and his performance show that.
Howard is not great, but has been better than Jarwin.
agreed that the young witten is not on the roster.

I am not suggesting than paying a late round pick to get howard if possible.

what worries me is behind Jarwin, who is obviously a question mark as a starter, we have nothing. we are bad at TE at the starter and then there is this huge drop off, which makes the back up really bad. howard, who is equal or a little better than Jarwin, could help the group.

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Hayseed said:

Some of you are going to be in for a big shock. Jarwin is going to absolutely GO OFF this year. I firmly believed he was going to make a big impact before we even drafted Lamb,.... but NOW? WHOA! Gonna run a ton of three receiver sets,...with Gallup Lamb and Coop Jarwin will FEAST in the middle of the field.

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Verdict said:

With all due respect, Witten sucked eggs his last several years on the roster. He was pathetic in his play. Slow as molasses.

We can agree to disagree on Witten’s level of play. We have a pass catcher (Jarwin) and it won’t take much to block like Witten did his last few years on the team. I think Jarwin will be an upgrade over Witten and Im not especially high on Jarwin.

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OmerV said:

When you learn a little football, quit presenting things as fact that you make up and haven’t bothered to verify, quit running from legitimate questions and quit flip flopping your positions to fit your narrative as your supposed facts are disproved, we can talk. Until then you are just a kid with a fantasy football mentality.

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CowboysFaninHouston said:

witten with cement on his feed would be a better blocker than Jarwin….and like I said, Jarwin outside of games against Giants was very average. I am not sold on Jarwin and behind him there is absolutely no one that we can count on and to mitigate the risk, we can bring someone a little better than Jarwin, so we won't fall off the cliff if anything happens to Jarwin.

witten ranked in the middle of the pack in NFL for TEs....I think we all got used to high level TE play, specially because it was witten and what we got was very average and we were all disappointed.

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Verdict said:

Witten sucked.

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CowboysFaninHouston said:

I don't disagree....but that speaks more to the state of Cowboys TE situation than anything else....I am just not sold on Jarwin and his three big plays against the giants....our TE is really bad.....if Jarwin is our best and there is a huge huge gap between him and the 2nd TE......we are in dire situation at TE

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Verdict said:

I think being concerned about the quality and depth of tight end on our roster is ok, but I am saying it would be hard pressed to be a downgrade from Witten. He was that bad. I can’t believe Garrett wanted him back and let him play every down.

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CowboysExchange said:

I read today that the Cowboys will scale back using the TE and in some cases use none at All on passing downs. Hallelujah. Now the Boys might win something cuz these tes have a LOSING TRADITION

WATCH US BEAT SOMEBODY WHEN THE DEFENSE HAS THAT EXTRA DB ON THE FIELD.

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OmerV said:

Provide your source. You’ve proven repeatedly you don’t mind just making things up, and when I prove your info is wrong you just change your narrative.

In any case, although it’s uncommon there have always been individual plays in the past where they have done this. This isn’t going to be typical the way you envision.

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CowboysExchange said:

Tight End is a forgotten position for the Cowboys and its Kinda Exciting

SB Nation article by Tom Ryle 7-1-2020

He says exactly what i been saying for 6 years. Beasely was preaching it for 4 years. Drop the 12 and go w 3 wr sets in the 11 and even substitute Jarwin for Pollard some. I still like Tavon Austin as a 4th wr personally. I cant wait to see some wr screens, bunch formations, hot Reads, etc i hope the offense is more like Gbs and dont use the safety valve te system that never won beans w a hof checkdown te. Lmao
Jarwin will be a deep threat te a red zone jumper or he'll be riding the pine. Lol.

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CowboysExchange said:

Tight End is a forgotten position for the Cowboys and its Kinda Exciting

SB Nation article by Tom Ryle 7-1-2020

He says exactly what i been saying for 6 years. Beasely was preaching it for 4 years. Drop the 12 and go w 3 wr sets in the 11 and even substitute Jarwin for Pollard some. I still like Tavon Austin as a 4th wr personally. I cant wait to see some wr screens, bunch formations, hot Reads, etc i hope the offense is more like Gbs and dont use the safety valve te system that never won beans w a hof checkdown te. Lmao
Jarwin will be a deep threat te a red zone jumper or he'll be riding the pine. Lol.

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OmerV said:

Boy, did you just make up a load of crap about what the article said. Lol. Of course, you do that frequently.

The article actually says Jarwin should “blossom” now, just in less of a traditional TE role. It says Jarwin will be used often more like a big slot receiver, and his ability as a receiver is fairly well established, and his numbers were hindered by Witten playing so much. The only thing you got even close to right is that Ryle feels Pollard may occasionally be used without Jarwin, and there will be fewer 2 TE sets, but the indication in the article was clearly that Jarwin will play most of the time - and do well.

By the way, Beasley never indicated a TE shouldn’t play, and in fact, in the 11 personnel you said Beasley touted, a TE did play. 3 WRs does not eliminate the TE.

Meaning this coach wont have a safety valve checkdown te system. He wants 3 wr sets on every play minimal. He basically wants a te that can go deep. If Jarwin doesnt have any game winning in him pollard or austin have more scoring output a way fewer snaps and targets btw. We need a 4th wr who can make

Also, by the way, Austin STILL isn’t on the Dallas Cowboys, so you are STILL pushing something that isn’t even possible with him.

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OmerV said:

Boy, did you just make up a load of crap about what the article said. Lol. Of course, you do that frequently.

The article actually says Jarwin should “blossom” now, just in less of a traditional TE role. It says Jarwin will be used often more like a big slot receiver, and his ability as a receiver is fairly well established, and his numbers were hindered by Witten playing so much. The only thing you got even close to right is that Ryle feels Pollard may occasionally be used without Jarwin, and there will be fewer 2 TE sets, but the indication in the article was clearly that Jarwin will play most of the time - and do well.

By the way, Beasley never indicated a TE shouldn’t play, and in fact, in the 11 personnel you said Beasley touted, a TE did play. 3 WRs does not eliminate the TE.

Also, by the way, Austin STILL isn’t on the Dallas Cowboys, so you are STILL pushing something that isn’t even possible with him.

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CowboysExchange said:

Killing that Gawd Awful 12 personnel is the Greatest thing about it bro. Thats a losing scheme when yo main te has 3 catches for 17 meaningless yards and meaningless production for years. The second te has 2 catches per year. No winning associated w thst Gronk Hernandez scheme we copied and stuck with against all odds

Jarwin will get a shot to blossom but hes just a 1 team wonder. The giant killer. Lol. He'll create more turnovers that lose games and has never won anything for the team. He will do better with Lamb as the #3 and him as the number 4-5th option. Send him out there and if hes got no big play then scale back his role. I think this coaching is brighter than that 12 personnel

That is a no brainer kill the 12

Austin is still a cheap 4th wr who has playmaking abilities and we could sign him for a cup of coffee. As a good 4th wr or a backup plan.

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OmerV said:

Boy, did you just make up a load of crap about what the article said. Lol. Of course, you do that frequently.

The article actually says Jarwin should “blossom” now, just in less of a traditional TE role. It says Jarwin will be used often more like a big slot receiver, and his ability as a receiver is fairly well established, and his numbers were hindered by Witten playing so much. The only thing you got even close to right is that Ryle feels Pollard may occasionally be used without Jarwin, and there will be fewer 2 TE sets, but the indication in the article was clearly that Jarwin will play most of the time - and do well.

By the way, Beasley never indicated a TE shouldn’t play, and in fact, in the 11 personnel you said Beasley touted, a TE did play. 3 WRs does not eliminate the TE.

Also, by the way, Austin STILL isn’t on the Dallas Cowboys, so you are STILL pushing something that isn’t even possible with him.

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OmerV said:

Lol, I knew you would simply adjust and ignore the mass of grossly false statements you make and take the tiny shred of what you were close on and pretend you had it figured out. Never a doubt - it’s what you do.

And you are still stupidity not acknowledging the difference between primary TE and backup and pretending Jarwin can’t be good because he didn’t put up stellar numbers his first 2 seasons as the backup.

And, as we’ve seen, you are a hypocrite because you praise Cook even though he had a fraction of the production in his first 2 years. And you are still clinging to a player the team has shown no interest in signing.

You aren’t remotely capable of rational conversation. No matter how many times you are caught in lies and blatant misrepresentations you just create a new version and pretend you are saying the same thing.

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CowboysExchange said:

beasely was the
it said that this coaches primary personel group is 3 wrs and a tight end 11 personnel. Thats not a scale back of the dual te passing attack thats an elimination of it for the most part on passing downs.

The scale back is in the 11 personell group and Jarwin. Jarwin wont be the 3rd option like # 82. He'll be the 4th or 5th option. Not the 3rd option. The 3rd wr will be the starter not the te anymore. The spot played 3rd receiver is now under this staff the everydown player like ive been preaching. How is that a misrepresentation?

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