Twitter: Trysten vs Neville

Cowboys22

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  • It is comical that the majority of fans like or love the Gallimore pick but hated the Hill pick.
  • Based strictly on game footage, they are very similar players in many ways.
    • Both are very quick and projected as 3tech pass rushing type DTs but both played more snaps in college at the 1tech or 0tech spots.
  • Both played somewhat opposite of the general style of players aligned at their positions (specific to their final college seasons).
    • Gallimore played a 3tech pass rushing style while most often aligning as a 1tech.
    • Hill was moved to 3tech in his final college season but played more of a 1 or 0 tech style.

One plays like his pants are on fire and the other one is known to be lazy and always plays like his grandma died 20 minutes before game time. What's comical about fans liking the first guy more?
 

xwalker

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One plays like his pants are on fire and the other one is known to be lazy and always plays like his grandma died 20 minutes before game time. What's comical about fans liking the first guy more?
It is comical because it's a made up narrative.

All 3 D-Coordinators (2 from college and Marinelli) have said that Hill is a "high motor" player and that he practices hard.

The problem is that his first college coaching staff coached him to play the run as a priority but the 2nd college coaching staff and Marinelli wanted him to focus on pass rushing.

The 1st college DC played him as a run stopping 3-4 NT. That position requires a completely different mindset than playing as a 3tech DT, especially in Marinelli's scheme.

Hill's 2nd college coaching staff told him the 1st staff's way was wrong and he could never accept that the 2nd staff knew more than the 1st staff.
- The first staff did move upwards to a bigger college program and is indeed much more highly regarded.

The new Cowboys DC is likely to expect more of a play the run first mentality by the DTs as opposed to Marinelli's "play the run on the way to the QB concept".
 

xwalker

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Gallimore is known for his effort and Hill is known for his inconsistent effort. Effort makes a lot of difference to me.

False narrative.

Both college D-Coordinators and Marinelli said that Hill is a "high motor" player and practices hard.

The issue is that Hill struggled to adapt his style/technique to the requirements of the 2nd college DC or the requirements of Marinelli.
 

xwalker

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The issue with where they drafted Hill was the off the field factor. Everyone said he wasn't motivated hence the reason they got absolutely nothing out of him but the Cowboys gambled anyway. It's nice they grabbed an interior linemen, but you just knew the Dline whisperer was behind it. Another part of the problem was he was their only answer after the Ram debacle besides the usual bottom feeder FAs. With Garrett and Marinelli here I no longer got too excited about the draft anyway. That's really the biggest difference between Gallimore and Hill.. A real HC finally! Hill still reeks of the previous regime.

None of Hill's coaches have said that he is not motivated. They've all said he is a "high motor" player and practices hard.
 

xwalker

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Comparing Tomsula to Wade is like comparing Landry to Garrett, laughable.

Tomsula is best as DL coach, not DC and certainly not a HC.

1. I didn't compare Wade and Tomsula to each other. I gave an example (Wade) of another defensive coach that never should have been a Head Coach.

2. Wade has been coaching 20 years longer than Tomsula. I would expect him to have more accomplishments.
 

Whyjerry

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New defensive coaches and style. Trysten has 1 year experience on Neville. Neville was drafted by the new regime though.

This will be an interesting battle to see who backs up McCoy and Poe.

I'm not writing Trysten off just yet.


Hill was over drafted. Expectations too high for a guy that is a workout warrior but not a hard worker. Sleeping during meetings as a rookie 2nd rounder that can barely suit up is a really bad sign. Gallimore is the exact opposite in terms of makeup. It might be Hill’s last year in Dallas. I expect nothing from the guy.
 

Big_D

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None of Hill's coaches have said that he is not motivated. They've all said he is a "high motor" player and practices hard.


The team in November was saying the opposite. Even Jerry called him out for "lollygagging"! Again I see the stink of the previous regime. So we'll see how he responds with the vets here and the new coaching. Hopefully we get to see that high motor soon.
 

Cowboys22

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It is comical because it's a made up narrative.

All 3 D-Coordinators (2 from college and Marinelli) have said that Hill is a "high motor" player and that he practices hard.

The problem is that his first college coaching staff coached him to play the run as a priority but the 2nd college coaching staff and Marinelli wanted him to focus on pass rushing.

The 1st college DC played him as a run stopping 3-4 NT. That position requires a completely different mindset than playing as a 3tech DT, especially in Marinelli's scheme.

Hill's 2nd college coaching staff told him the 1st staff's way was wrong and he could never accept that the 2nd staff knew more than the 1st staff.
- The first staff did move upwards to a bigger college program and is indeed much more highly regarded.

The new Cowboys DC is likely to expect more of a play the run first mentality by the DTs as opposed to Marinelli's "play the run on the way to the QB concept".


What's not made up is that he looked like a total bust last year in the preseason. If it was possible to do less than nothing then he did. He was a total joke of a professional football player last year. I hope he turns it around but there is nothing comical about fans not liking him after his pathetic performances last season. I could care less about all the excuses you posted above. The bottom line is he didn't put the time and effort in to do what it took for him to be better. Maybe he will moving forward but I highly doubt it. Poor attitude and effort guys rarely change. They may for a short period but they almost always return to their old ways.
 

Beaker42

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New defensive coaches and style. Trysten has 1 year experience on Neville. Neville was drafted by the new regime though.

This will be an interesting battle to see who backs up McCoy and Poe.

I'm not writing Trysten off just yet.

How’s Juan Thornhill doing?
Asking for a friend ..........
 
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eromeopolk

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New defensive coaches and style. Trysten has 1 year experience on Neville. Neville was drafted by the new regime though.

This will be an interesting battle to see who backs up McCoy and Poe.

I'm not writing Trysten off just yet.

Hill is going to do very well with a new DL coach. Also Neville is not the athlete Hill is out of college. But Neville has played more in college and was a big reason for the improvement of the poor OU defense that basically had 1 player for a few years, Kenneth Murray. I wish the Cowboys could have gotten Murray and Diggs vs. Lamb. But, Jerry had a little Lamb.

This defense still has too many unreliable and unavailable players project with starting roster spots and no depth in key positions on defense. They really need Hill and Gallimore to blow up.
 

xwalker

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Hey man, I'm not exactly on the against Hill bandwagon and I hope he becomes a useful member of the DLine, and has every shot to do so.

However using one specific sites rankings to make that point isnt fair. The guy was generally considered overdrafted.

I'll offer the opinion that the 20 draft was much deeper than the 19 draft, so the comparision is apples vs oranges.

Heck there are people out there that say Garrett was a great coach. We all have opinions, and that's the purpose of this forum, no?

The fact that people at CZ repeated something thousands of times does not make it true.


It's not "just some website". Its' the NFL website.

The NFL.com rankings are not perfect but they're not going to vary radically from the general consensus of draft media rankings.

NFL.com Relative to All Prospects
Hill: 62
Gallimore: 129

Brugler Relative to All Prospects
Hill: 91
Gallimore: 82

If Hill was "over-drafted" relative to general expectations it was by 1 round at the very most.
 
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QuincyCarterEra

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Well, as far as projected draft status, one was a steal and the other a reach.

Could be part of things.
But the fans here weren't buying it as a reach at the time.

There was a thread entirely about how Hill would have been a 1st rounder if not for attitude issues and the majority agreed with the OP, I chimed in saying that he should have been an early 3rd rounder without the attitude issues and it was not well received. Those same fans have now flip flopped like Jazz said.
 

xwalker

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What's not made up is that he looked like a total bust last year in the preseason. If it was possible to do less than nothing then he did. He was a total joke of a professional football player last year. I hope he turns it around but there is nothing comical about fans not liking him after his pathetic performances last season. I could care less about all the excuses you posted above. The bottom line is he didn't put the time and effort in to do what it took for him to be better. Maybe he will moving forward but I highly doubt it. Poor attitude and effort guys rarely change. They may for a short period but they almost always return to their old ways.

  • Fan Narratives
    • I don't have any stake in Trysten Hill per se. I didn't advocate for them to draft him or anything of that nature and I'm not claiming they he will be good in 2020.
    • My arguments are based on the comedy that is "fan narratives" where fans don't bother to get accurate details and don't care to consider them when presented.
    • Fans generally just enjoy making statements based on "fan narratives" regardless of facts.
  • Hill
    • He looked like an average mid round rookie DT in the preseason.
    • He looked OK in the limited snaps that he played in the regular season games but he played at 1tech not at 3tech where they drafted him to play.
    • Again, no coach has said that he lacks effort or that he has a bad attitude.
    • His only known transgression are:
      • He got angry when the 2nd college Head Coach refused to let him transfer with the previous coaching staff.
      • He fell asleep in a Cowboys meeting.
      • Everything else is made up by fans/media.
 

quickccc

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Want to see how Hill does with the new regime. Not writing him off yet either. Both he and Gallimore could be the new set of DT's in a few years, as McCoy and Poe move on.

i'm doubting Gallimore and Hill will be the future bookends, they are just too similar DT types.
they are both 3 tech types, and too long we've been deprived of that and needing more bulk
and wide body brawny types at the 1 tech role.
Quality prototypes that change how we play defense.

And certainly right now, Hill doesn't know how to play the DT role at the NFL level at this point.
i've re-watch so many film where he actually held his ground for a green rookie vs run for someone

But vs pass he gets stuck and stonewalled on blocks and he goes to freelancing and moving and
looping outside trying to make something happen. Coaches dont take well to freelancing
and having two players in same area, same rush lanes, etc. (ala Tank Johnson)

- Hill has to better use his hands and leverage to shed blocks more quickly, to win one on one
at his spot, in his lane. He'll still have the same DT coach in Leon Lett, he'll be managed by
very reputable new DL coach
Jim Tomsula which i think he'll be much better coached up and more disciplined than what he was
vs Marinelli. who did some very questionable coaching decisions himself.

- But Hill has to respond to coaching, he has to keep the peddle to the meddle in pushing himself and not
getting discouraged (which i tend to believed happened under Rod M.) ..and they have to let him
extensively play. Cannot learn and improve without game day experience.
He cannot continue to be Game Day Inactive and sitting as what severely happened with Rod M.
 

Cowboys22

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  • Fan Narratives
    • I don't have any stake in Trysten Hill per se. I didn't advocate for them to draft him or anything of that nature and I'm not claiming they he will be good in 2020.
    • My arguments are based on the comedy that is "fan narratives" where fans don't bother to get accurate details and don't care to consider them when presented.
    • Fans generally just enjoy making statements based on "fan narratives" regardless of facts.
  • Hill
    • He looked like an average mid round rookie DT in the preseason.
    • He looked OK in the limited snaps that he played in the regular season games but he played at 1tech not at 3tech where they drafted him to play.
    • Again, no coach has said that he lacks effort or that he has a bad attitude.
    • His only known transgression are:
      • He got angry when the 2nd college Head Coach refused to let him transfer with the previous coaching staff.
      • He fell asleep in a Cowboys meeting.
      • Everything else is made up by fans/media.

My argument is based on what my eyes relayed to my brain not some fan narrative. I saw him suck and then I saw him suck some more and when it all was done, all I saw was him sucking. I don't care about what happened before or during. When you suck, it doesn't really matter why, does it?
 

alicetooljam

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The fact that people at CZ repeated something thousands of times does not make it true.


It's not "just some website". Its' the NFL website.

The NFL.com rankings are not perfect but they're not going to vary radically from the general consensus of draft media rankings.

NFL.com Relative to All Prospects
Hill: 62
Gallimore: 129

Brugler Relative to All Prospects
Hill: 91
Gallimore: 82

If Hill was "over-drafted" relative to general expectations it was by 1 round at the very most.


I dont think anyone really disputes this, but the 2 players have been trending in different directions. Hill showed early promise in college and then disappointed there late and since being here. Gallimore started football late, was raw from Canada, displayed leadership qualities (defense captain) late in college. Time will tell, but my money is on Gallimore at this point, though I would be thrilled to see them both become monsters.
 

CowboyRoy

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New defensive coaches and style. Trysten has 1 year experience on Neville. Neville was drafted by the new regime though.

This will be an interesting battle to see who backs up McCoy and Poe.

I'm not writing Trysten off just yet.


Those are athletic cards, nothing more. What the don't show there is strength, motor, heart, attitude which are all more important at DT. Size also matters.
 

xwalker

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Hill was over drafted. Expectations too high for a guy that is a workout warrior but not a hard worker. Sleeping during meetings as a rookie 2nd rounder that can barely suit up is a really bad sign. Gallimore is the exact opposite in terms of makeup. It might be Hill’s last year in Dallas. I expect nothing from the guy.
The team in November was saying the opposite. Even Jerry called him out for "lollygagging"! Again I see the stink of the previous regime. So we'll see how he responds with the vets here and the new coaching. Hopefully we get to see that high motor soon.

Antwaun Woods was "sent home" at the same time for the same reason as Hill. Nobody has ever said that Woods was lazy.

Fans just love to find any reason to criticize a player or coach or owner that they don't like.

Jerry did not say that Hill was Lollygagging. Jerry generically answered a question about Hill by saying that if players put in the required attention to detail, work on technique, etc. that the player will eventually show up in games but that if a player is lollygagging that it won't have a good outcome.

FYI, Dez was late more than any player in Cowboys history and Garrett never sent him home.
 
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