Twitter: Trysten vs Neville

Beaker42

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Your response is an indicator that my post was too complicated for you to understand and/or you're too lazy to respond to the details.

It's funny that fans hammer on players for being lazy or for not immediately understanding NFL schemes/techniques, yet those same fans are often too lazy to put any effort into discussing the details and either too lazy or not competent enough to make a legit counter arguments.
I did read your TLDR post and he was still a suck pick two rounds too early. Throw out whatever you want but we could’ve had a starting quality safety instead of some doosh who couldn’t get on the field.
 

J12B

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I think the reason why Hill is facing scrutiny is because of the talent that was available when he was drafted in the 2nd round.

Thornhill
Rapp
Even Metcalfe would have been a better pick.

There were a few other players that were getting linked to us and most fans were familiar with, but Hill came out of nowhere and he apparently had a rough senior year with the coaching staff at UCF for not giving 100%. Didn't even play that much.

That's why Hill looks like a bad pick.

Neville is a 3rd round pick out of a top notch program.
 

xwalker

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Hill had problems with his UCF staff and then the Cowboys staff last year. I’d tell you to quit being obtuse but it would be pointless. You’re the resident expert on knowing jack s**t.

His D-Coordinator did any interview after the 2019 draft where the interviewers specifically wanted to ask him about Hill.

The D-Coordinator said that there was not a problem with Hill's attitude or work ethic.

Either you are wrong or the D-Coordinator is wrong. Since he was there and you have not even met Trysten Hill, I'm going to believe the D-Coordinator.

He said Hill did get upset when the Head Coach refused his request to transfer with the previous coaching staff but that Hill didn't have any on-going attitude issues and that Hill practiced hard and had a "high motor".

The DC said that Hill did struggle to adapt to the new scheme and new position requirements. The previous staff had ingrained a specific style and techniques into Hill's mindset and he struggled to change from those.
 

Sydla

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I take it that you failed reading comprehension...

Again, they're not reporting that they know that Hill had clashes with his college coaches. They're just referencing the general narrative that it happened.

His 2nd college D-Coordinator said specifically on-air that there was not a problem between Hill and the coaches with regards to attitude or effort.

The D-Coordinator knows what happened. Local Dallas area Cowboys beat reporters do not know what happened. How is that hard to understand?

Thanks for being the person that got suckered into helping me make my point.

You're giving evidence of how a herd member attaches themselves to a narrative.

You're giving exact examples of how it happens by showing how you fall for the implied comments as being "reports".

The word is nuance by the way, not "naunce".

I really don't know if you're just desperate to "win" an argument or if your reading comprehension if really just terrible. Hopefully it's not the latter.

LOL. Is this the best you have? A fat finger move where I switched the "u" and the "a" in a word by accident?

The statement in the Cowboys story wasn't referencing a general narrative. It made a declarative statement. Hill clashed with coaches (and clashed is a wide term - it doesn't mean they fought with each other, it could mean the coaches got frustrated that Hill wasn't listening to them during practices, or wasn't consistent in his drills, etc.)

We also know FOR A FACT he got reprimanded for falling asleep during a team meeting led by a Hall of Fame NBA player. We also know FOR A FACT he was late for a meeting. We also know the HC admitted he needed to be more of a professional and grow up. Throw in respected reporters like Archer talking about issues Hill had that needed to be worked on. The picture is quite clear. Hill had some maturity issues that hurt him last year (along with just being raw as a player) and he's going to have to rectify that soon to get his career on the right path. Maybe he'll do that with a new voice in his head in Tomsula. Or maybe he won't and he'll just fizzle out his career as nothing more than a run of the mill backup DT that ends up playing for 5 teams. Who knows? What we do know is that part of his problem last year was that he simply struggled with the maturity side of being a young NFL player.

You can continue to pretend that's not the case but that's because you seem incapable of being honest and fair when it comes to criticism of a player.
 

xwalker

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I think the reason why Hill is facing scrutiny is because of the talent that was available when he was drafted in the 2nd round.

Thornhill
Rapp
Even Metcalfe would have been a better pick.

There were a few other players that were getting linked to us and most fans were familiar with, but Hill came out of nowhere and he apparently had a rough senior year with the coaching staff at UCF for not giving 100%. Didn't even play that much.

That's why Hill looks like a bad pick.

Neville is a 3rd round pick out of a top notch program.

Thornhill was the 6th Safety drafted in 2019. It's not as if they passed on an Earl Thomas clone.

No coach has said that Hill lacked effort. That's a fan/media narrative. He had a couple of issues in college but lack of effort was not one of them.

The D-Coordinator from his final college season and Marinelli have both said effort is not the problem.
 

J12B

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Thornhill was the 6th Safety drafted in 2019. It's not as if they passed on an Earl Thomas clone.

No coach has said that Hill lacked effort. That's a fan/media narrative. He had a couple of issues in college but lack of effort was not one of them.

The D-Coordinator from his final college season and Marinelli have both said effort is not the problem.

And those safeties were all seen as an upgrade over our starters of Heath and X. Woods.

Even seeing how Metcalfe progressed in Seattle makes it look like a terrible pick. Although I'm happy we got Lamb, Dallas could have Metcalfe and the DE the Falcons drafted. Or traded back and picked up a couple of more picks to a team wanting Lamb.

Hill didn't show much of anything at all during his playing time in the few games he was actually active.

There is no way around it, Hill was a terrible pick in hindsight.
 

jnday

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False narrative.

Both college D-Coordinators and Marinelli said that Hill is a "high motor" player and practices hard.

The issue is that Hill struggled to adapt his style/technique to the requirements of the 2nd college DC or the requirements of Marinelli.
That is a direct contradiction from every report I have read about Hill. He put forth so much effort that he didn’t even start in college and Hill didn’t live up to Marinelli‘s contract. Marinelli as said that Hayden was a stud , so his opinion means nothing to me. Have you seriously forgot about all the reports from Cowboy’s insiders?
 

Kaiser

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That is a direct contradiction from every report I have read about Hill. He put forth so much effort that he didn’t even start in college

Read post 129 on the previous page. The first coaching staff loved Hill, the second coaching staff come in and tried to "show who is boss" by benching Hill for a first snaps of the game and calling it a benching. They tried to make an example of out of him because he was their best player by a mile.

There is no way to call Hill a backup because of that situation.
 

xwalker

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My entire point in this thread is that there is a false fan/media narrative about Trysten Hill.

The false narrative is that he is lazy and has a bad attitude.


In reality, he was considering a very "high motor" player that plays with extreme effort and urgency.

All of his D-Coordinators (2 from college and Marinelli) have said that he is a high effort player and hard worker in practice.

Hill has plenty of issues as you can see below where I highlighted his negatives in red; however, lack of effort is absolutely not one of his issues.

In fact, it appears to he plays with too much effort which causes some of his technique issues and causes him to be out of control at times.

The 2nd college coaching staff made him a non-starter due to his struggles to adapt to their scheme and technique requirements; however, he had career highs for tackles, tackles for loss and sacks that season.

Memphis with Tony Pollard struggled to do anything vs UCF in the AAC Championship game when Hill was on the field, but scored at ease when he was not on the field.


Draft Reports by Joe Marino and Jon Ledyard

Red = Bad
Blue = Good

Marino:
Run Defense - Attacks the neutral zone with unbelievable urgency and offers gap-shooting ability. Unfortunately, his high level of urgency doesn’t completely mask his soft anchor. He gets worked by drive blocks and gets washed by down blocks. Needs to add lower body strength and maintain his run fits with more consistency.

Pass Rush - He’s busy. Gets off the ball in a hurry and attacks the edges of blockers. Lack of contact power and balance shows up when blockers land their punch. His plan is reliant on beating opponents to landmarks and powering through angles. Must develop more nuance with his hands and counters.

Effort - One of the most urgent football players I have ever seen. Plays every snap like his life depends on it. Always pursues the football at a full sprint. Gets knocked down and immediately pops up looking for the football. More technique is needed to take advantage of his effort and turn it into consistent playmaking.

Hand Technique - Hands are busy not lack purpose. HAS to do a better job of keeping his pads clean given his lack of functional power. Has single moves that are effective but timing and deployment of counters needs major development.

Flexibility - He generally forces blockers out of their sets and powers through angles but I wouldn’t exactly call him bendy. Rushes with good tilt through angles. Insane effort leads to quicker turns despite some tightness in his lowers.

Play Strength - He can reset the line of scrimmage by plowing into blockers but he doesn’t have the anchor to sustain his ground. Has built in leverage but he doesn’t do a good enough job with his hands to keep punches off his frame.

Play Speed - There’s no doubt that he plays fast with insane urgency but it can be to his detriment and he’ll run right out of his rush lanes and run fits. Creates levels in the run game by getting too far up the field.

Lateral Movement - Fast flower up and down the line of scrimmage and to the sideline. Has terrific range but he needs to be more reliable to stay in his fits on stretch runs.

Versatility - Best deployed on the interior in even fronts as a gap-shooter. Not a candidate to defend multiple gaps in odd fronts. Has potential against the run and pass if he can develop technically.

BEST TRAIT - Motor

WORST TRAIT - Technique

Hill is one of the most urgent football players my eyes have ever seen. He battles on every single snap, fires off the ball with intent and pursues the football with reckless abandon. With that said, Hill is often more active than he is effective. More technique is required for Hill to take advantage of his motor that always runs hot. While he outworks opponents and makes his share of plays, that will be mitigated at the next level and more functional strength and hand technique is necessary for him to make an impact. Hill’s elite competitive demeanor is worth taking a chance on and he should be able to make an impact in a rotation.


Ledyard:
Get-off/Burst - Erupts off the ball with good reactionary quickness. Can pop straight up in the air rather than straight out up the field, but when he fires out, he can wreck plays with his burst. Quickness allows him to cross the face of offensive linemen and backdoor gaps, leading to a lot of his TFL production.

Leverage - Has some built-in leverage at 6-foot-1, but does let his pad level swell and stands straight up off the snap at times. Loses ground against base blocks and doubles when he plays high, doesn't control gaps like he should. When he fired out low, has the burst and power to re-set the line of scrimmage and knock blockers back off the snap (Memphis).

Hand Usage - If you can't defend your frame, you can't dictate terms 1v1. Hill can beat blockers to spots at times, but everything about his point of attack defense is inconsistent. Has stretches of play where he doesn't use full arm extension with good hand placement to stack and shed well and can get walled off as a result (Temple). When he does unlock his hands, has exceptional power and has tossed and hump moved opponents before (Memphis). Technique needs a lot more consistency, but talent is clear.

Rush Plan/Counters - Tons of energy with very little purpose as a pass rusher. Hands are constantly churning, but misses target and gets off-balance as a result. Elbows get hinged and speed-to-power conversions die out due to high pad level. Can't keep blockers off his frame and gets body-to-body too often. Plan of attack has to become more intricate, almost solely reliant on shooting gaps to get pressure right now.

Mental Processing/Block Recognition - True bull in a china shop. Gets overrun by zone schemes and plays with very little mental processing. Doubles and down blocks can catch him by surprise and generate movement. Reckless style ends with him on the ground more than you'd like to see.

Range - Despite elite hustle, doesn't have great range and speed is average for the position. Will make plays with his effort that some more rangy defensive tackles wouldn't consider attempting. Short-area quickness is impressive, some of his tackles for loss involved quick lateral movement.

Bend/Flexibility - He's tilted a few impressive angles for backfield stops. Doesn't work to the blocker's edge often enough to know exactly what he's capable of in this area, but the few times he has I've been impressed.

Tackling - Overruns tackles in space far too often. Has to throttle down and keep his eyes up as a tackler. Doesn't have a big tackle radius, but he'll go all out for stops and maximize what he's got.

Competitive Toughness - Part of a heavy rotation, but played unbelievably hard when he was on the field. Ridiculous hustle in every game to attempt to chase down runners away from his gap. Plays with reckless abandon and physicality. Chirps too.

Athleticism/Size - Carries some extra weight around his midsection and lacks ideal length, but can't teach girth. If his technique improves, his size and natural center of gravity could be an asset. Decent athlete with some impressive short-area quickness.

BEST TRAIT - Hustle/Burst

WORST TRAIT - Pass Rush Plan


Oddly enough, Hill started the first 26 games of his career before coming off the bench in all but one game as a junior. His production went up however, as the defensive tackle posted career highs in tackles (36), TFL (10.5) and sacks (3). Hill's quickness and power are clear strengths on tape, but his technique remains a work-in-progress, and his pass rush plan is significantly lacking.
 

xwalker

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That is a direct contradiction from every report I have read about Hill. He put forth so much effort that he didn’t even start in college and Hill didn’t live up to Marinelli‘s contract. Marinelli as said that Hayden was a stud , so his opinion means nothing to me. Have you seriously forgot about all the reports from Cowboy’s insiders?

My point in this thread is to show how the extremes of false fan/media narratives.

Trysten Hill just happens to be a great example of false fan/media narratives.

Fans/media take something that happened and exaggerate it and add completely false information to it and the false fan/media narrative develops and then goes to extremes due to fan emotion.

Once the narrative has started, fans/media look for anything to "pile on" with regards to the narrative.

Trysten Hill had many issues as a player in college; however, none of those issues were due to a lack of effort.
  • Facts:
    • Hill got angry when the 2nd college Head Coach refused to let him transfer with the previous coaching staff.
    • Hill was a very good player for 2 years with the original coaching staff and that staff loved him as a player.
    • The 2nd Head Coach made Hill a non-starter; although, he often played more than the starters.
    • Hill's stats actually improved despite not being a "starter". His overall stats were better than the stats for the "starting" DTs.
    • The 2nd D-Coordinator did an interview with ESPN after that draft and he said Hill practiced hard and was a "high motor" player.
      • The DC said that Hill had a good attitude in all interactions that the DC had with Hill.
      • The DC said that the problem with Hill was that he didn't adapt to their scheme and techniques quickly enough.
      • The DC said it was the Head Coach that made the decisions on who starts (i.e. Not the DC's decision).
    • Marinelli on camera during the 2019 season when asked said that lack of effort or a bad attitude was not the reason Hill was not always active for games.
      • Marinelli: He has the want-to and the work ethic, but he is just not getting it.
 

xwalker

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I think the reason why Hill is facing scrutiny is because of the talent that was available when he was drafted in the 2nd round.

Thornhill
Rapp
Even Metcalfe would have been a better pick.

There were a few other players that were getting linked to us and most fans were familiar with, but Hill came out of nowhere and he apparently had a rough senior year with the coaching staff at UCF for not giving 100%. Didn't even play that much.

That's why Hill looks like a bad pick.

Neville is a 3rd round pick out of a top notch program.

Didn't play that much? His stats actually improved from previous seasons despite not being a "starter".

His overall stats were better than the starting DTs:

 

J12B

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Didn't play that much? His stats actually improved from previous seasons despite not being a "starter".

His overall stats were better than the starting DTs:


He must've mainly been brought in on passing downs and was able to mainly rush the passer.

He certainly didn't continue that upward trend in the NFL.
 

xwalker

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He must've mainly been brought in on passing downs and was able to mainly rush the passer.

He certainly didn't continue that upward trend in the NFL.

No, in the games I watched they tended to play them by series.

In the 2018 AAC championship game between Memphis (with Tony Pollard) and UCF (with Hill), Memphis scored 41 points but only 10 on drives with Hill on the field.

The 1 TD scored when Hill was in the game came after the UCF offense fumbled and gave it to Memphis with about 20 yards needed to score.

On that TD play they ran outside to the opposite side from Hill.

Hill was not terrible when he played for the Cowboy in the regular season, but they played him at 1tech DT, not 3tech where he had practiced all off-season and where he had played in the preseason games.

Hill just did't play the way that Marinelli wanted him to play.

The Cowboys front 7 were already struggling to figure out how to stop zone running teams after the Rams exposed their weakness against zone running in the playoff game.

Hill's biggest weakness in the preseason just so happened to be playing against zone run plays.
 

Oz-of-Cowboy-Country

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I'm not a fan of Hill or Gallimore. They are carbon copies of one another, IMO. Should have drafted Jordan Elliott. Right now I'd take Antwan Woods over both Hill and Gallimore.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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My entire point in this thread is that there is a false fan/media narrative about Trysten Hill.

The false narrative is that he is lazy and has a bad attitude.


In reality, he was considering a very "high motor" player that plays with extreme effort and urgency.

All of his D-Coordinators (2 from college and Marinelli) have said that he is a high effort player and hard worker in practice.

Hill has plenty of issues as you can see below where I highlighted his negatives in red; however, lack of effort is absolutely not one of his issues.

In fact, it appears to he plays with too much effort which causes some of his technique issues and causes him to be out of control at times.

The 2nd college coaching staff made him a non-starter due to his struggles to adapt to their scheme and technique requirements; however, he had career highs for tackles, tackles for loss and sacks that season.

Memphis with Tony Pollard struggled to do anything vs UCF in the AAC Championship game when Hill was on the field, but scored at ease when he was not on the field.


Draft Reports by Joe Marino and Jon Ledyard

Red = Bad
Blue = Good

Marino:
Run Defense - Attacks the neutral zone with unbelievable urgency and offers gap-shooting ability. Unfortunately, his high level of urgency doesn’t completely mask his soft anchor. He gets worked by drive blocks and gets washed by down blocks. Needs to add lower body strength and maintain his run fits with more consistency.

Pass Rush - He’s busy. Gets off the ball in a hurry and attacks the edges of blockers. Lack of contact power and balance shows up when blockers land their punch. His plan is reliant on beating opponents to landmarks and powering through angles. Must develop more nuance with his hands and counters.

Effort - One of the most urgent football players I have ever seen. Plays every snap like his life depends on it. Always pursues the football at a full sprint. Gets knocked down and immediately pops up looking for the football. More technique is needed to take advantage of his effort and turn it into consistent playmaking.

Hand Technique - Hands are busy not lack purpose. HAS to do a better job of keeping his pads clean given his lack of functional power. Has single moves that are effective but timing and deployment of counters needs major development.

Flexibility - He generally forces blockers out of their sets and powers through angles but I wouldn’t exactly call him bendy. Rushes with good tilt through angles. Insane effort leads to quicker turns despite some tightness in his lowers.

Play Strength - He can reset the line of scrimmage by plowing into blockers but he doesn’t have the anchor to sustain his ground. Has built in leverage but he doesn’t do a good enough job with his hands to keep punches off his frame.

Play Speed - There’s no doubt that he plays fast with insane urgency but it can be to his detriment and he’ll run right out of his rush lanes and run fits. Creates levels in the run game by getting too far up the field.

Lateral Movement - Fast flower up and down the line of scrimmage and to the sideline. Has terrific range but he needs to be more reliable to stay in his fits on stretch runs.

Versatility - Best deployed on the interior in even fronts as a gap-shooter. Not a candidate to defend multiple gaps in odd fronts. Has potential against the run and pass if he can develop technically.

BEST TRAIT - Motor

WORST TRAIT - Technique

Hill is one of the most urgent football players my eyes have ever seen. He battles on every single snap, fires off the ball with intent and pursues the football with reckless abandon. With that said, Hill is often more active than he is effective. More technique is required for Hill to take advantage of his motor that always runs hot. While he outworks opponents and makes his share of plays, that will be mitigated at the next level and more functional strength and hand technique is necessary for him to make an impact. Hill’s elite competitive demeanor is worth taking a chance on and he should be able to make an impact in a rotation.


Ledyard:
Get-off/Burst - Erupts off the ball with good reactionary quickness. Can pop straight up in the air rather than straight out up the field, but when he fires out, he can wreck plays with his burst. Quickness allows him to cross the face of offensive linemen and backdoor gaps, leading to a lot of his TFL production.

Leverage - Has some built-in leverage at 6-foot-1, but does let his pad level swell and stands straight up off the snap at times. Loses ground against base blocks and doubles when he plays high, doesn't control gaps like he should. When he fired out low, has the burst and power to re-set the line of scrimmage and knock blockers back off the snap (Memphis).

Hand Usage - If you can't defend your frame, you can't dictate terms 1v1. Hill can beat blockers to spots at times, but everything about his point of attack defense is inconsistent. Has stretches of play where he doesn't use full arm extension with good hand placement to stack and shed well and can get walled off as a result (Temple). When he does unlock his hands, has exceptional power and has tossed and hump moved opponents before (Memphis). Technique needs a lot more consistency, but talent is clear.

Rush Plan/Counters - Tons of energy with very little purpose as a pass rusher. Hands are constantly churning, but misses target and gets off-balance as a result. Elbows get hinged and speed-to-power conversions die out due to high pad level. Can't keep blockers off his frame and gets body-to-body too often. Plan of attack has to become more intricate, almost solely reliant on shooting gaps to get pressure right now.

Mental Processing/Block Recognition - True bull in a china shop. Gets overrun by zone schemes and plays with very little mental processing. Doubles and down blocks can catch him by surprise and generate movement. Reckless style ends with him on the ground more than you'd like to see.

Range - Despite elite hustle, doesn't have great range and speed is average for the position. Will make plays with his effort that some more rangy defensive tackles wouldn't consider attempting. Short-area quickness is impressive, some of his tackles for loss involved quick lateral movement.

Bend/Flexibility - He's tilted a few impressive angles for backfield stops. Doesn't work to the blocker's edge often enough to know exactly what he's capable of in this area, but the few times he has I've been impressed.

Tackling - Overruns tackles in space far too often. Has to throttle down and keep his eyes up as a tackler. Doesn't have a big tackle radius, but he'll go all out for stops and maximize what he's got.

Competitive Toughness - Part of a heavy rotation, but played unbelievably hard when he was on the field. Ridiculous hustle in every game to attempt to chase down runners away from his gap. Plays with reckless abandon and physicality. Chirps too.

Athleticism/Size - Carries some extra weight around his midsection and lacks ideal length, but can't teach girth. If his technique improves, his size and natural center of gravity could be an asset. Decent athlete with some impressive short-area quickness.

BEST TRAIT - Hustle/Burst

WORST TRAIT - Pass Rush Plan


Oddly enough, Hill started the first 26 games of his career before coming off the bench in all but one game as a junior. His production went up however, as the defensive tackle posted career highs in tackles (36), TFL (10.5) and sacks (3). Hill's quickness and power are clear strengths on tape, but his technique remains a work-in-progress, and his pass rush plan is significantly lacking.

Get a job.
 

Cowboys22

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My entire point in this thread is that there is a false fan/media narrative about Trysten Hill.

The false narrative is that he is lazy and has a bad attitude.


In reality, he was considering a very "high motor" player that plays with extreme effort and urgency.

All of his D-Coordinators (2 from college and Marinelli) have said that he is a high effort player and hard worker in practice.

Hill has plenty of issues as you can see below where I highlighted his negatives in red; however, lack of effort is absolutely not one of his issues.

In fact, it appears to he plays with too much effort which causes some of his technique issues and causes him to be out of control at times.

The 2nd college coaching staff made him a non-starter due to his struggles to adapt to their scheme and technique requirements; however, he had career highs for tackles, tackles for loss and sacks that season.

Memphis with Tony Pollard struggled to do anything vs UCF in the AAC Championship game when Hill was on the field, but scored at ease when he was not on the field.


Draft Reports by Joe Marino and Jon Ledyard

Red = Bad
Blue = Good

Marino:
Run Defense - Attacks the neutral zone with unbelievable urgency and offers gap-shooting ability. Unfortunately, his high level of urgency doesn’t completely mask his soft anchor. He gets worked by drive blocks and gets washed by down blocks. Needs to add lower body strength and maintain his run fits with more consistency.

Pass Rush - He’s busy. Gets off the ball in a hurry and attacks the edges of blockers. Lack of contact power and balance shows up when blockers land their punch. His plan is reliant on beating opponents to landmarks and powering through angles. Must develop more nuance with his hands and counters.

Effort - One of the most urgent football players I have ever seen. Plays every snap like his life depends on it. Always pursues the football at a full sprint. Gets knocked down and immediately pops up looking for the football. More technique is needed to take advantage of his effort and turn it into consistent playmaking.

Hand Technique - Hands are busy not lack purpose. HAS to do a better job of keeping his pads clean given his lack of functional power. Has single moves that are effective but timing and deployment of counters needs major development.

Flexibility - He generally forces blockers out of their sets and powers through angles but I wouldn’t exactly call him bendy. Rushes with good tilt through angles. Insane effort leads to quicker turns despite some tightness in his lowers.

Play Strength - He can reset the line of scrimmage by plowing into blockers but he doesn’t have the anchor to sustain his ground. Has built in leverage but he doesn’t do a good enough job with his hands to keep punches off his frame.

Play Speed - There’s no doubt that he plays fast with insane urgency but it can be to his detriment and he’ll run right out of his rush lanes and run fits. Creates levels in the run game by getting too far up the field.

Lateral Movement - Fast flower up and down the line of scrimmage and to the sideline. Has terrific range but he needs to be more reliable to stay in his fits on stretch runs.

Versatility - Best deployed on the interior in even fronts as a gap-shooter. Not a candidate to defend multiple gaps in odd fronts. Has potential against the run and pass if he can develop technically.

BEST TRAIT - Motor

WORST TRAIT - Technique

Hill is one of the most urgent football players my eyes have ever seen. He battles on every single snap, fires off the ball with intent and pursues the football with reckless abandon. With that said, Hill is often more active than he is effective. More technique is required for Hill to take advantage of his motor that always runs hot. While he outworks opponents and makes his share of plays, that will be mitigated at the next level and more functional strength and hand technique is necessary for him to make an impact. Hill’s elite competitive demeanor is worth taking a chance on and he should be able to make an impact in a rotation.


Ledyard:
Get-off/Burst - Erupts off the ball with good reactionary quickness. Can pop straight up in the air rather than straight out up the field, but when he fires out, he can wreck plays with his burst. Quickness allows him to cross the face of offensive linemen and backdoor gaps, leading to a lot of his TFL production.

Leverage - Has some built-in leverage at 6-foot-1, but does let his pad level swell and stands straight up off the snap at times. Loses ground against base blocks and doubles when he plays high, doesn't control gaps like he should. When he fired out low, has the burst and power to re-set the line of scrimmage and knock blockers back off the snap (Memphis).

Hand Usage - If you can't defend your frame, you can't dictate terms 1v1. Hill can beat blockers to spots at times, but everything about his point of attack defense is inconsistent. Has stretches of play where he doesn't use full arm extension with good hand placement to stack and shed well and can get walled off as a result (Temple). When he does unlock his hands, has exceptional power and has tossed and hump moved opponents before (Memphis). Technique needs a lot more consistency, but talent is clear.

Rush Plan/Counters - Tons of energy with very little purpose as a pass rusher. Hands are constantly churning, but misses target and gets off-balance as a result. Elbows get hinged and speed-to-power conversions die out due to high pad level. Can't keep blockers off his frame and gets body-to-body too often. Plan of attack has to become more intricate, almost solely reliant on shooting gaps to get pressure right now.

Mental Processing/Block Recognition - True bull in a china shop. Gets overrun by zone schemes and plays with very little mental processing. Doubles and down blocks can catch him by surprise and generate movement. Reckless style ends with him on the ground more than you'd like to see.

Range - Despite elite hustle, doesn't have great range and speed is average for the position. Will make plays with his effort that some more rangy defensive tackles wouldn't consider attempting. Short-area quickness is impressive, some of his tackles for loss involved quick lateral movement.

Bend/Flexibility - He's tilted a few impressive angles for backfield stops. Doesn't work to the blocker's edge often enough to know exactly what he's capable of in this area, but the few times he has I've been impressed.

Tackling - Overruns tackles in space far too often. Has to throttle down and keep his eyes up as a tackler. Doesn't have a big tackle radius, but he'll go all out for stops and maximize what he's got.

Competitive Toughness - Part of a heavy rotation, but played unbelievably hard when he was on the field. Ridiculous hustle in every game to attempt to chase down runners away from his gap. Plays with reckless abandon and physicality. Chirps too.

Athleticism/Size - Carries some extra weight around his midsection and lacks ideal length, but can't teach girth. If his technique improves, his size and natural center of gravity could be an asset. Decent athlete with some impressive short-area quickness.

BEST TRAIT - Hustle/Burst

WORST TRAIT - Pass Rush Plan


Oddly enough, Hill started the first 26 games of his career before coming off the bench in all but one game as a junior. His production went up however, as the defensive tackle posted career highs in tackles (36), TFL (10.5) and sacks (3). Hill's quickness and power are clear strengths on tape, but his technique remains a work-in-progress, and his pass rush plan is significantly lacking.

Draft reports have no bearing whatsoever with how he showed up to Dallas and performed. He had numerous red flag issues last year and then played like he didn’t have a clue or didn’t care. That’s not a false fan narrative. We all saw his play on the field. He didn’t have a high motor. He was easily blocked and ended up on the ground away from the play a lot of the time. For the last time, he totally sucked as a rookie for the Dallas Cowboys and no amount of pre draft write ups, statements from who knows who, or twisted logic from you can change that but by means, go down with the ship. I’m waiting on your next topic discussing how much better Quincy Carter was than Romo because he started 7 games as a rookie.
 

fivetwos

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Listen more. Talk less.

  • I was undecided on Thornhill vs Hill.
    • It was obvious that Thornhill would be ready earlier than Hill, but if Hill panned out it is the much more difficult type player to obtain.
      • Keep in mind that Thornhill was the 6th Safety drafted that year. Other teams obviously did not have him super highly rated either...
      • I liked Thornhill but he was a FS or CB and the Cowboys had 2 players that could play FS but zero that were good options at SS.
    • The Cowboys decision on Thornhill vs Hill came down to Thornhill vs Safeties they liked in the 3rd round.
      • They were not going to draft a Safety in both the 2nd and 3rd but they targeted getting a Strong Safety in the 3rd; therefore, they took the DT in the 2nd.
      • They targeted 2 DBs in the 3rd but their top target was drafted at #81 and they had pick #90.
      • That Safety did start as a rookie and played well. They had a good plan but it didn't work out.
    • Their approach did work out in 2020. They could have traded up in the 2nd to draft Diggs but took the chance that he would be available at their pick.
      • They took that chance because they were content to draft Gallimore in the 2nd if Diggs was off the board.
      • They ended up getting both.
  • "EVERYBODY"
    • The same group of people thought Travis Frederick was "over drafted". I loved the pick.
    • A huge number of people at CZ wanted to draft Manziel back in 2014. I was adamantly against drafting Manziel.
    • I was the only fan that wanted to draft Witten in the 1st round back in 2003...
      • The Cowboys get praised for picking Witten in the 3rd but that means they skipped drafting him in the 2nd.
      • That would have been a colossally bad decision if some other team had drafted him before their pick in the 3rd.
Very interesting post on a personal level.

I wasnt around here back then, but I thought Witten was a 1st round player.

I wasnt big into the Al Johnson pick, but I trusted Parcells, and WOW was he hideous at OL evaluation.

Jacob Rogers, Stephen Peterman, Cory Proctor...just off the top of the head. He was incredibly bad there while here.


As far as the Frederick thing....its absolutely maddening come draft time when you hear things like..."yeah I like the player, but not at 17. We need to trade back to 22 and it's good value."

It's nowhere NEAR that close to an exact science.

Without even as much as looking at it I know theres plenty of guys drafted in the general range as Fred that completely busted. There always is.

It's a matter of getting a good player, not picking a guy within the range of the internet experts.

Even the actual experts are far from that result wise.
 
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