10 year contract extension for Mahomes worth $500 million

Corso said:

Half a billion dollars. Wow.
That's a lot of filthy lucre my friend.

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Lol, yes it is. Kind of shoots down the idea that Dak was looking for elite money.

Sydla said:

And it was out of a discussion of the rumor Dak was demanding $45MM in that 5th year if he were to sign a 5 year deal.

The point I was making that even Mahomes likely wouldn't even have a year where he made a base salary of $45MM. People, I think, confuse base salary with AAV. They aren't the same thing.

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No one talks about base salary number, the AAV is the only number people care or talk about because not many players only make their base salary. Especially QB's since the AAV is tied into so many things.

ElGatoGrande said:

lol, now I'm taking insults from the village idiot, what next!? This just in, you quoted my post and proceeded to talk about something entirely different. Stay in your lane grandma!

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No dummy, I posted the very basic facts to educate you very specifically about your goofy, bereft of thought, post.
It was a free service I offer to those unable to grasp simple concepts without getting a headache.
The fact it confused you even more is par for the course.

Sydla said:

Literally in the first post in this thread, there is a tweet from Schefter and he says, and I quote, "........making it a new 12-year contract in total".

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Only in the context of how long he will be a Chief. Not in the context of the size of the contract. Otherwise you might as well start counting the years already paid because it is all the same contract in the end because it is technically an extension.

Sevenup3000 said:

What about Wentz or Goff? Those are apt comparisons no?

Keep saying along. Give Dak the updated version of the Wentz and Goff deal as those are his peers in both terms of position, year they entered, and in production.

So whatever Wentz/Goff got (add inflation) and then add another $26mm over 5 years (Dak gives up his extra year).

Wentz/Goff is expected to be FA in 2024 and at that point so would Dak...so Wentz, Goff, and Dak would ALL enter FA in 2024 having made the exact same amount.

Otherwise, sign Dak to 4 years...forego the extra $26mm...and Dak enters Free Agency a year earlier but $26mm less than Wentz/Goff.

Simple.

EDIT: $26MM because this number represents what Wentz/Goff MORE in career earnings than Dak over their first 4 years (Wentz/Goff: about $30mm so far...Dak: about $4mm..)

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I've said I have no problem given Dak a deal in the realm of what Goff or Wentz got, even a bit more. My sticking point has always been the 4 years. I think he needs to sign the 5 year deal for cap purposes, and give some flexibility to the team to work his contract as need be.

PS - Wentz isn't a FA until 2025, not 2024. Same with Goff. They signed 4 year extensions in 2019 that were tacked onto the back end of their remaining two years on their rookie deals - essentially 6 year contracts. So.... 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024............

Anyone still curious why this gives Dak even more leverage?

Adreme said:

Except the thing is if you are demanding say 4 years 140 (35m per year) and you then say you want 45 for the 5th year what you are really saying is that to go to a 5th year it has to be 5 years 185(37m per year). That is not some drastic bump in money. Basically it says that if you want to get that 5th year the average per year has to go up relative to that.

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But no player has a last year premium like that. It's an excessive demand. The reason the Cowboys want that 5th year is for cap purposes. But if they are on the hook for $45MM in actual cash (which would be the cap hit + whatever bonus money is still outstanding), it defeats the point of adding that 5th year from Dallas' perspective.

Again, the AAV is largely meaningly. In your eyes, an AAV of $35 vs $37MM isn't a big deal but in terms of looking at how the structure would work, yes, it's an absolutely big deal from the Cowboys perspective.

4/144 with 114 guaranteed. No way Dak is getting anything less.

88sAndHeartbreak said:

No one talks about base salary number, the AAV is the only number people care or talk about because not many players only make their base salary. Especially QB's since the AAV is tied into so many things.

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Actually people do talk about base salary and how it works with the cap, etc. And in the discussion you cherry picked a comment from, it was in relation to Dak reportedly wanting $45MM in cash in that 5th year. Well in order to do that, the Cowboys would have to make that 5th year base salary $45MM (or some combo of base + a 5th year roster bonus). That would be an unusual demand and as I said, not even Mahomes would have a contract that would pay him a base salary of $45MM in a single season.

Honestly, what's Dak worth on the open market right now?

Sydla said:

But no player has a last year premium like that. It's an excessive demand. The reason the Cowboys want that 5th year is for cap purposes. But if they are on the hook for $45MM in actual cash (which would be the cap hit + whatever bonus money is still outstanding), it defeats the point of adding that 5th year from Dallas' perspective.

Again, the AAV is largely meaningly. In your eyes, an AAV of $35 vs $37MM isn't a big deal but in terms of looking at how the structure would work, yes, it's an absolutely big deal from the Cowboys perspective.

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Not really especially when it looks like 45m will be what QBs cost in 5 years. Saying "I want 2m per year extra for that 5th year (honestly it is probably 37-38 initial anyway so it is more like 1.5 million more per year) is not exactly an unreasonable demand.

The entire reason Mahomes deal is earthshattering right now is because of the length. The Cowoboys did exactly the same thing years ago with Tyron and it worked out well there, because in only a few years the average deal caught up to that number and it will here to.

Adreme said:

Only in the context of how long he will be a Chief. Not in the context of the size of the contract. Otherwise you might as well start counting the years already paid because it is all the same contract in the end because it is technically an extension.

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If you say it's a new 12 year contract, you would then combine all the monies. You said a reporter wouldn't describe it as such and yet Schefter did. Your last sentence makes no sense. People renegotiate contracts all the time and at the time of renegotiation you don't include what someone has earned. When you renegotiate an extension and modify what's left on an existing contract, for all intents and purposes, it's a new contract.

Sevenup3000 said:

What about Wentz or Goff? Those are apt comparisons no?

Keep saying along. Give Dak the updated version of the Wentz and Goff deal as those are his peers in both terms of position, year they entered, and in production.

So whatever Wentz/Goff got (add inflation) and then add another $26mm over 5 years (Dak gives up his extra year).

Wentz/Goff is expected to be FA in 2024 and at that point so would Dak...so Wentz, Goff, and Dak would ALL enter FA in 2024 having made the exact same amount.

Otherwise, sign Dak to 4 years...forego the extra $26mm...and Dak enters Free Agency a year earlier but $26mm less than Wentz/Goff.

Simple.

EDIT: $26MM because this number represents what Wentz/Goff MORE in career earnings than Dak over their first 4 years (Wentz/Goff: about $30mm so far...Dak: about $4mm..)

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They tried that but Dak wants only 4 years where the Cowboys want 5 years.

Sevenup3000 said:

What about Wentz or Goff? Those are apt comparisons no?

Keep saying along. Give Dak the updated version of the Wentz and Goff deal as those are his peers in both terms of position, year they entered, and in production.

So whatever Wentz/Goff got (add inflation) and then add another $26mm over 5 years (Dak gives up his extra year).

Wentz/Goff is expected to be FA in 2024 and at that point so would Dak...so Wentz, Goff, and Dak would ALL enter FA in 2024 having made the exact same amount.

Otherwise, sign Dak to 4 years...forego the extra $26mm...and Dak enters Free Agency a year earlier but $26mm less than Wentz/Goff.

Simple.

EDIT: $26MM because this number represents what Wentz/Goff MORE in career earnings than Dak over their first 4 years (Wentz/Goff: about $30mm so far...Dak: about $4mm..)

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No they aren't apt comparisons.
Wentz has had major injury concerns and Goff has mostly been bad with better offensive weapons and coaching.
Wentz injury woes make signing him a far larger gamble than Dak.


Dallas most definitely isn't getting Pat Mahomes in Dak but acting like he is some middle of the road starter is simply not true.
He's a legit top 7 guy and he's going to be the 2nd highest paid QB when he signs his long term deal.
The issue is what that number is because the more players sign in front of him the larger it will be.

Stephen Jones has screwed this up royally.
It took an insane lack of situational awareness to not sign him long-term last summer before watching him practice deep balls in the new Kellen offense to Gallup and Cooper.
Dak and the team told us they were gonna air that mo out...
How did Stephen not use his brain and sign the guy before he did?
Everyone in the league knew Dallas was far better and more dangerous at WR than when they had been with Beasley and Witten as your top targets....

jterrell said:

Anyone still curious why this gives Dak even more leverage?

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It certainly defeats the argument that Dak was looking for elite money. The Mahomes deal is what elite looks like. What Dak Has reportedly asked for, and what Goff, Wentz and Cousins got before, does Not look like an elite range now.

Damn missed a hell of a thread working... 10 years?? F.

LOL @ Trubisky

Adreme said:

It is his story and it is the teams story and that is the story because that is what matters. Agents and teams now know the new highest paid player is playing on an AAV of 45m per. Period. No wiggle room, no "well if you count the two years before that then it is not that and while we are at it why dont we count the 3 years he already played..." because none of that matters. He signed 10 years 450+ million.

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No, this team belongs to Jerry. He will pay what he will pay. What you outline here matters to you. It doesn't matter to me. Dak is not getting paid what Mahomes got. That's not happening but if you wish to believe that, that's fine with me.

Mahomes signed an extension. That means he added years to the existing contract. He's got a 12 year deal for 477 mil with 150 guaranteed. That's what the deal is. That averages out to 39.75 AAV. If you think Dak can get that deal, that's fine. I don't care one way or the other because I know he isn't getting that deal without a championship and a long term contract, which he does not want. But as I've said, if that is what you want to believe, that's fine.

I'm not sweating it because the truth is the truth. Time will ultimately tell. Win a championship and the entire equation changes but this business of using stats to justify pay not gonna happen IMO. If it were, Dak would not be playing on the tag now. Look how long it took Mahomes to get Baseball money. Now look how long it's taking to simply get a deal done with Prescott. That tell's you everything you need to know about this situation IMO.

Adreme said:

Not really especially when it looks like 45m will be what QBs cost in 5 years. Saying "I want 2m per year extra for that 5th year (honestly it is probably 37-38 initial anyway so it is more like 1.5 million more per year) is not exactly an unreasonable demand.

The entire reason Mahomes deal is earthshattering right now is because of the length. The Cowoboys did exactly the same thing years ago with Tyron and it worked out well there, because in only a few years the average deal caught up to that number and it will here to.

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It is an unreasonable demand when you pay attention to the structure of the contract and the likely cap hit that the Cowboys would endure in the 5th year in order to pay Dak $45MM in that 5th year. The AAV is largely meaningless here, especially to the Cowboys. They are concerned mostly with cap implications, which is why they want the 5th year.

If the Cowboys gave into Dak and agreed to pay him $45MM in the 5th year (2024), they'd likely have a cap hit that last year in excess of $50MM. For comparison, Wentz and Goff carry cap hits of around $32MM in 2024.

OmerV said:

It certainly defeats the argument that Dak was looking for elite money. The Mahomes deal is what elite looks like.

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That's the thing.
What's elite now becomes average starter money very quickly.
Dak had to be insanely patient but the team let it get this far which is unbelievably bad front office work.

Not like everyone didn't know Pat was starting talks at 40M per.
Dak asked for 37AAV on a 5 year deal or 35AAV on a 4.
The Cowboys are arguing over 10M on a 5th year... they likely wouldn't have paid lol.
They'd have extended him, traded him or released him before they just played out the entire 5th year of the deal.

Sydla said:

Actually people do talk about base salary and how it works with the cap, etc. And in the discussion you cherry picked a comment from, it was in relation to Dak reportedly wanting $45MM in cash in that 5th year. Well in order to do that, the Cowboys would have to make that 5th year base salary $45MM (or some combo of base + a 5th year roster bonus). That would be an unusual demand and as I said, not even Mahomes would have a contract that would pay him a base salary of $45MM in a single season.

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I cherry picked the quote because it was relevant to the news of the day, especially now seeing that Mahomes will actually be getting closer to $47M/yr guaranteed/base. $503M is the total AAV