Offensive Personnel Packages and why adding Pollard more might help

quickccc

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thats jason garrett kind of thinking. which is why jason witten got the majority of the snaps and why Zeke had 300+ carries. If Pollard's touches are to be increased, it should come from Zeke. It doesn't have to be a 50/50 or a 60/40 1-2 punch like the backfields you mentioned. In 2019, it was 77/22 between Zeke and Pollard. Going to 70/30 will keep Zeke fresh and healthier. You just have to give 2 carries a game more to Pollard that comes from Zeke to get to that 70/30.

Will it happen? Dunno. But I think its better for the team.

there is a strong chance that zeke carries will not be on the same amount as previous years
as upon Dak's new contract may make us a more transiting passing team than the previous run oriented concept,
so if that becomes so, it's likely to decreased to some extent.
and i cannot see a RB that we just made paid to be the highest paid in the NFL history taking a even lesser touch role in addition
to a greater passing team concept.

Now i could be wrong as Seattle was still among the top teams in running the ball, even with making Russell Wilson the highest paid
QB in the league (at the time) Will that happen with McCarthy team as well

And when it comes time for him to carry the ball, the team is gonna lean on him early in the game to get him involved and
established, in the flow of the game and in closing out games in crunch time.

And Zeke isn't on fumes the way old gizzer Witten was on his last legs,
and this is not Sony Michel, Chris Carson or Raheem Morstert, if you still listening to players around the
NFL, they keep tellin how Zeke beats them up because he is so difficult to keep taking head on. he's an powerful,churning, angry runner.
Though my biggest hope is getting him back to more big splash plays per his carries. .

Now what that does mean is Pollard should no longer have these games where he either barely has two touches in the entire game,
or not even in the game at game - per kellen moore/Garrett.
That's where McCarthy, Phiibin, Skip Peete have to take over the run game and schemes to better design the RBs in the pass game.
 

glimmerman

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He just needs to make the most out of and maximize his opportunities. MM has to trust these guys and Pollard has to hold onto the football...
 

Cowboyny

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i don't see how that's likely to happen when consider the number of possessions, momentum of the game, scoring territory,closing the game,.. with a player and a reputation like Zeke, and also considering how much they have invested in him, it's not likely to be a shared backfield and such roles such as we've seen some prominent teams when thinking of the better past the 1-2 punch RB duo, such as Raheem Mostert/ Tevin Coleman of Niners, .. Pat's Sony Michel and James White.. or even when there was Mark Ingram and Alvin Kamara with the Saints.

With Pollard, i think it's gonna be the usual spelling zeke in every 3rd series of the game, and only times there'd be dual presences in the game at the same time, is with a 20 Personnel look.. (2 running backs, 0 tight ends, 3 wide receivers)
- with Pollard flexed in motion out of the backfield; or in a run formation in one of McCarthy's mis-direction formations where he'd actually be required to run block.

if Pollard's touches is to be increased, it will come at someone else's expense,and that won't be Zeke,.. and how i'm seeing it, it stands a chance it will be from Blake Jarwin .... than Zeke or the three amigo WR's.

I seen a few posters state that Pollard will share carries, that's high unlikely to happen. Zeke is one of the team's best players, he only comes off the field to give him a breather. What we want to see from Zeke is him being in better shape and not asking to come out during a drive.
 

quickccc

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and while dwelling on who gets touches and game reps, how will the McCarthy's John Kuhn type FB come into play as well ?

:oops:
 

quickccc

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Its always about matchups, and who can beat their man, their player assignment.
That was always the issue with the past regime, JG had is good qualities, he keeps a locker room in order.
A real coach and maybe MM is, understands the Xs and Os of the game,, its not complicated, its all about miss matches.
Just having running back depth may seem revolutionary to us, because as Cowboys fans we have been waiting …….
Pollard is here to stay, and we finally have that piece that, that player, that can open the can, open this offense up and exploit a mismatch.
Exploiting a mismatch is really essential, always has been, but has been ignored for several reasons for several years, we have the ability to
exploit most defenses now.

Once Pollard has further cemented and established his capability as a play maker and his rookie contract is up,
i can see another NFL team coming after him in FA as a future starter.
We have to prepared for that in the future as well.
 

Oz-of-Cowboy-Country

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Were us fans smarter than Garrett?
Is Mike McCarthy smarter than Garrett?

We know how we would make this offense unstoppable? But will these coaches realize Pollard's and Cooper's potential, in the slot, as we already have?



Let's just hope McCarthy is smarter than Garrett.
 

OmerV

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Too many fans think by Pollard being on the field more that it somehow takes away some of Zeke’s effectiveness or god forbid, his stats. (The stats that matter most are wins of course)

Actually, I believe having them both on the field at the same time more makes it tougher on defenses because it just adds another possible problem for them to think about.
This makes sense if they come up with unique formations and plays (an occasional 2 RB set?), but if it's just to use one as a RB and the other as a WR/slot guy it may not be much different than we can do with other personnel.
 

buybuydandavis

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A few weeks ago, Dallas Radio man and writer Bob Sturm posted a good overview of NFL Personnel packages, and I have included the Twitter link below to show the graphic he used.


According to the graphic, there are 11 basic offensive personnel groupings, all based on having 5 skill position players in addition to the QB. The grouping numbers used to identify packages are based on the number of RBs (first number) and number of TEs (second number) All sets include the traditional 5 OL.

In 2019, the Cowboys used the 11 package for nearly 67% of its plays, followed by the 12 package about 18% of its plays.

Many of us on these boards have voiced a desire to see Tony Pollard have a larger role in the offense. In his rookie year, he had 101 touches in 15 games- about 6.5 touches per game, which was actually pretty good. The only problem with Pollard’s use last year was how few times both he and Zeke were on the field together. When Pollard was in, Zeke usually wasn’t. When Pollard was in the game last year, he was very often getting the ball, making it easier for defenses to be prepared.

What I think would make the overall offense better, would be placing both Pollard and Zeke on the field together more often- maybe 5 plays a game, giving defenses something else to think about in an already talented bevy of skill position players to worry about.

Mike McCarthy is known for his creative use of offensive personnel. This should be fun to watch.


Pollard doesn't give you much blocking, but gives the best run/pass balance of the threats on the field. I'd rather have him on non-nickel downs than Jarwin.

I've been itching for a true multi back offense for years. Jet sweeps are a great complementary option to Zeke running north/south up the middle, as is a running back with the speed to go deep.

Best offense is Pollard splitting the 5th man with Jarwin. After years of Garrett's threat last offenses, I'm emotionally unable to feel they'll do that, even though Moore seemed like exactly the OC to do it. Will McCarthy Unleash the Beast? He seems like a HC to do that too, but I just can't feel it. Garrett has left me dead inside.
 

Bobhaze

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and while dwelling on who gets touches and game reps, how will the McCarthy's John Kuhn type FB come into play as well ?

:oops:
My point here quick is not so much about how many touches Pollard or Zeke gets. My bigger point is really about how to make this offense more effective through better use of deception and giving defenses more to think about.

Zeke is clearly the better RB over Pollard. I don’t think there is any question about that that. But if on occasion, like 4-5 plays a game, by having both Pollard and Zeke on the field at the same time, it creates a serious question about which weapon is about to be used.

The Cowboys last year, and most years under Garrett, ran nearly 70% of their plays from the 11 personnel set- 1 RB, 1 TE and 3 WRs. I’m just suggesting that this team can create a much less predictable offense by occasionally switching things up. I don’t think there is much question that the Cowboys have been one of the most predictable and easier offenses to prepare for in the NFL. We need to change that and I believe Big Mac will be doing just that.
 

75boyz

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My point here quick is not so much about how many touches Pollard or Zeke gets. My bigger point is really about how to make this offense more effective through better use of deception and giving defenses more to think about.

Zeke is clearly the better RB over Pollard. I don’t think there is any question about that that. But if on occasion, like 4-5 plays a game, by having both Pollard and Zeke on the field at the same time, it creates a serious question about which weapon is about to be used.

The Cowboys last year, and most years under Garrett, ran nearly 70% of their plays from the 11 personnel set- 1 RB, 1 TE and 3 WRs. I’m just suggesting that this team can create a much less predictable offense by occasionally switching things up. I don’t think there is much question that the Cowboys have been one of the most predictable and easier offenses to prepare for in the NFL. We need to change that and I believe Big Mac will be doing just that.

All of this sounds good from a wishful thinking, hopeful and avoid predictability mindset as has been expressed in response to your OP

The fact of the matter is that there is no historical evidence by this coach to support this integration of a dynamic 2 back set.

He depended upon A hybrid/quasi west coast offense that was more downfield oriented than the Walsh 80s horizontal type of quick rubs and underneath YAC with Rice.

He accomplished his philosophy with Favre and Rodgers primarily throwing downfield more than a traditional west coast offense philosophy because of the arm strength and accuracy of his signal callers.

If names like Kuhn or Eddie Lacy wanna be mentioned as staples to his past precedence as play caller I would counter by saying they were simple novelty change of pace guys but whose base was still based on downfield passing.
Kinda like the jet sweep with Dunbar, or Switzer or Austin in Dallas. It's a change of pace wrinkle but the main course is still to feed Zeke.

How McCarthy uses Zeke and that contract to go with his downfield passing concepts is the college thesis paper I would assume he and Moore are working on this offseason with regards to integrating the 2.
Hopefully, Pollard can be used more as has been discussed here.

Again that word. Hopefully.
 

charron

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The worst thing you can do is run 1 or 2 things out of each alignment. That is easy to defend. What coaches need to do is run more things out of each alignment and run the same play in different alignments. You can't just run zeke up the middle, or pollard to the outside. They also need to use them in other ways while in the same formation. All coaches need to do a better job at this. The rams only ran 6-8 main plays 2 years ago but had success as each play had 3-4 ways of attacking a defense they needed to account for. Given enough time coaches/people go back to the plays they like and what they think will work. It's why Romo knows what types of play is coming based off of offensive alignment when calling games.
 

75boyz

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The worst thing you can do is run 1 or 2 things out of each alignment. That is easy to defend. What coaches need to do is run more things out of each alignment and run the same play in different alignments. You can't just run zeke up the middle, or pollard to the outside. They also need to use them in other ways while in the same formation. All coaches need to do a better job at this. The rams only ran 6-8 main plays 2 years ago but had success as each play had 3-4 ways of attacking a defense they needed to account for. Given enough time coaches/people go back to the plays they like and what they think will work. It's why Romo knows what types of play is coming based off of offensive alignment when calling games.

Exactly. I agree and believe you are spot on here. Your explanation would help in avoiding the predictability here. Remember tells of the defensive line in the Rams playoff game a couple years back. Even Sam Darnold calling out the defense as to how simplistic it was to analyze.
Moore himself said his Boise offense was predicated on same alignment or formation but extreme flexibility within the scheme in order to mis lead defenses into thinking what they were seeing was not necessarily one past offensive play. When ALL members are crosstrained or gosh forbid, position flexible enough to carry out their alignment assignments so as to disguise the offense in such a way, then that truly will leave them guessing.
If limiting personnel packages to just 4 to 5 plays with specific player grouping you are again setting yourself up for failure as predictable.

Again I'll reference the past Dallas sweep. Everybody in the building knew when Dunbar Switzer or Austin was gonna run it based on the tells.

For all offensive players to be so well versed in this position flex while carrying out their assignments and "appearing" to always look the same would require massive repetition in my opinion.

With the current CBA mandated limited practice time, I can scarcely believe a change up look of 4 to 5 plays with Pollard will be implemented before smart defensive coordinators wont have identified it based on past offensive personnel groupings. Same tells as the old jet sweep, lol.

Could be wrong if Dallas can make every play design "appear" to be the same pre snap while executing a myriad of new running and passing plays all carried out from the same formation.

This is actually what I expected from last year.

We shall see if McCarthy's 30 plus yrs of NFL offensive playcalling will add diversity to Moore's playbook.

It was a huge sticking point around here last year on where Garrett's offensive influence began and ended.

Again, I hope the new coach isn't as predictable.
 

charron

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Exactly. I agree and believe you are spot on here. Your explanation would help in avoiding the predictability here. Remember tells of the defensive line in the Rams playoff game a couple years back. Even Sam Darnold calling out the defense as to how simplistic it was to analyze.
Moore himself said his Boise offense was predicated on same alignment or formation but extreme flexibility within the scheme in order to mis lead defenses into thinking what they were seeing was not necessarily one past offensive play. When ALL members are crosstrained or gosh forbid, position flexible enough to carry out their alignment assignments so as to disguise the offense in such a way, then that truly will leave them guessing.
If limiting personnel packages to just 4 to 5 plays with specific player grouping you are again setting yourself up for failure as predictable.

Again I'll reference the past Dallas sweep. Everybody in the building knew when Dunbar Switzer or Austin was gonna run it based on the tells.

For all offensive players to be so well versed in this position flex while carrying out their assignments and "appearing" to always look the same would require massive repetition in my opinion.

With the current CBA mandated limited practice time, I can scarcely believe a change up look of 4 to 5 plays with Pollard will be implemented before smart defensive coordinators wont have identified it based on past offensive personnel groupings. Same tells as the old jet sweep, lol.

Could be wrong if Dallas can make every play design "appear" to be the same pre snap while executing a myriad of new running and passing plays all carried out from the same formation.

This is actually what I expected from last year.

We shall see if McCarthy's 30 plus yrs of NFL offensive playcalling will add diversity to Moore's playbook.

It was a huge sticking point around here last year on where Garrett's offensive influence began and ended.

Again, I hope the new coach isn't as predictable.


This is where the offseason is so important. you have got to get the base principles down in TC, then each week you are adjusting what you do, alignment, personnell etc to best attack your opponent. but if you are still having to teach the basic fundamentals each week you are limited on the time you can introduce the wrinkles and probably have less confidence they are executed properly.
 

quickccc

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My point here quick is not so much about how many touches Pollard or Zeke gets. My bigger point is really about how to make this offense more effective through better use of deception and giving defenses more to think about.

Zeke is clearly the better RB over Pollard. I don’t think there is any question about that that. But if on occasion, like 4-5 plays a game, by having both Pollard and Zeke on the field at the same time, it creates a serious question about which weapon is about to be used.

The Cowboys last year, and most years under Garrett, ran nearly 70% of their plays from the 11 personnel set- 1 RB, 1 TE and 3 WRs. I’m just suggesting that this team can create a much less predictable offense by occasionally switching things up. I don’t think there is much question that the Cowboys have been one of the most predictable and easier offenses to prepare for in the NFL. We need to change that and I believe Big Mac will be doing just that.

i think that will depend upon how Pollard is design-schemed/used and how they established Pollard as a bonafide play maker, imo.
it's not just the touches, but how we design certain personnel imo effectively attacking defenses.

- Right now opposing teams won't be worried about defensing or game planning for Pollard, because we have not established or
(much less developed him) as a receiver, whether that means quick RB screen passes, bubble screen, quick flairs and swings passes, occasional slot ,wheel routes, etc. We only saw the underneath TD pass vs Detroit, en route to me always saying he was poorly under ultilized

- And McCarthy does indeed has various change up looks, formations and deceptive mis-direction package looks in his repetitore.
And that includes both run and pass. for instance, i've regularly post a Voch Lombardi vid that displays two RBs, zero TEs and 3 WRs
( "20 ' Personnel look)

- and MM also has " power" looks in his run game and that includes a physical lead FB ala John Kuhn, and it wasn't a frequency but occasional
touch and change up.
i so hope MM and the offensive team design run plays from zeke can get deep handoffs from QB under center where he can better utilize
lane vision and build momentum .... vs those RPOs' draw plays that Moore often likes to utilize.

- While Kellen Moore exceeded with design of the pass game when it came to QB and receivers, i thought he failed at utilizing our RBs
when it came to the pass game. And i questioned the game plan involvement as there were a couple of games where Pollard wasn't
even heard from.
 

quickccc

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All of this sounds good from a wishful thinking, hopeful and avoid predictability mindset as has been expressed in response to your OP

The fact of the matter is that there is no historical evidence by this coach to support this integration of a dynamic 2 back set.

He depended upon A hybrid/quasi west coast offense that was more downfield oriented than the Walsh 80s horizontal type of quick rubs and underneath YAC with Rice.

He accomplished his philosophy with Favre and Rodgers primarily throwing downfield more than a traditional west coast offense philosophy because of the arm strength and accuracy of his signal callers.

If names like Kuhn or Eddie Lacy wanna be mentioned as staples to his past precedence as play caller I would counter by saying they were simple novelty change of pace guys but whose base was still based on downfield passing.
Kinda like the jet sweep with Dunbar, or Switzer or Austin in Dallas. It's a change of pace wrinkle but the main course is still to feed Zeke.

How McCarthy uses Zeke and that contract to go with his downfield passing concepts is the college thesis paper I would assume he and Moore are working on this offseason with regards to integrating the 2.
Hopefully, Pollard can be used more as has been discussed here.

Again that word. Hopefully.

Several Good Points.

- McCarthy has coached up all purpose RBs such as Duece McAlister to a successful rate, and how many teams have 2 dynamic back sets ?

- i do agree that fans tend to be drawn in by the term West Coast offense and automatically relay it back to original innovative Bill Walsh/Montana days and may think of it in that sense vs teams over the decades that have evolved it into a more push the ball vertical pass game and a quick hurry pace. It does depend upon the coaches as some are more aggressive in pushing the ball, while some such as Jon Gruden may still be stuck on that dink- dunk, sneak attack .

- Using Zeke (and his contract) in the MM pass game ? If RB in pass game is a design of MM rather than K-Moore, we will see the RBs getting t
the passes in a multiple looks such as mis direction swing passes, flairs, wheel routes, quick screen passs (something zeke used to be utterly deadly on) vs the mere dump off, safety valves.

- As a poster mentioned a concern, which i too have myself, because of the cancellation of OTA's limited camp time, and possibility of zero preseason games, i have my doubts as how much can be implemented and worked out

- i was waiting for someone to make mentioned of the notorious slow starts that even the NFL's 2nd ranked yardage offense persistently had troubles with all year long,..and how much will McCarthy play a part in resolving those issues.
 

75boyz

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Several Good Points.

- McCarthy has coached up all purpose RBs such as Duece McAlister to a successful rate, and how many teams have 2 dynamic back sets ?

- i do agree that fans tend to be drawn in by the term West Coast offense and automatically relay it back to original innovative Bill Walsh/Montana days and may think of it in that sense vs teams over the decades that have evolved it into a more push the ball vertical pass game and a quick hurry pace. It does depend upon the coaches as some are more aggressive in pushing the ball, while some such as Jon Gruden may still be stuck on that dink- dunk, sneak attack .

- Using Zeke (and his contract) in the MM pass game ? If RB in pass game is a design of MM rather than K-Moore, we will see the RBs getting t
the passes in a multiple looks such as mis direction swing passes, flairs, wheel routes, quick screen passs (something zeke used to be utterly deadly on) vs the mere dump off, safety valves.

- As a poster mentioned a concern, which i too have myself, because of the cancellation of OTA's limited camp time, and possibility of zero preseason games, i have my doubts as how much can be implemented and worked out

- i was waiting for someone to make mentioned of the notorious slow starts that even the NFL's 2nd ranked yardage offense persistently had troubles with all year long,..and how much will McCarthy play a part in resolving those issues.

Nice post. Agree and appreciate the sharing of similar opinions.
 

75boyz

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i think that will depend upon how Pollard is design-schemed/used and how they established Pollard as a bonafide play maker, imo.
it's not just the touches, but how we design certain personnel imo effectively attacking defenses.

- Right now opposing teams won't be worried about defensing or game planning for Pollard, because we have not established or
(much less developed him) as a receiver, whether that means quick RB screen passes, bubble screen, quick flairs and swings passes, occasional slot ,wheel routes, etc. We only saw the underneath TD pass vs Detroit, en route to me always saying he was poorly under ultilized

- And McCarthy does indeed has various change up looks, formations and deceptive mis-direction package looks in his repetitore.
And that includes both run and pass. for instance, i've regularly post a Voch Lombardi vid that displays two RBs, zero TEs and 3 WRs
( "20 ' Personnel look)

- and MM also has " power" looks in his run game and that includes a physical lead FB ala John Kuhn, and it wasn't a frequency but occasional
touch and change up.
i so hope MM and the offensive team design run plays from zeke can get deep handoffs from QB under center where he can better utilize
lane vision and build momentum .... vs those RPOs' draw plays that Moore often likes to utilize.

- While Kellen Moore exceeded with design of the pass game when it came to QB and receivers, i thought he failed at utilizing our RBs
when it came to the pass game. And i questioned the game plan involvement as there were a couple of games where Pollard wasn't
even heard from.

Nice post and I share a lot of your views and hope many of these same things can be accomplished as well.

Lack of practice for all of this to be done sure has me doubtful.
 

75boyz

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This is where the offseason is so important. you have got to get the base principles down in TC, then each week you are adjusting what you do, alignment, personnell etc to best attack your opponent. but if you are still having to teach the basic fundamentals each week you are limited on the time you can introduce the wrinkles and probably have less confidence they are executed properly.

Totally agree.
 

quickccc

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This is where the offseason is so important. you have got to get the base principles down in TC, then each week you are adjusting what you do, alignment, personnell etc to best attack your opponent. but if you are still having to teach the basic fundamentals each week you are limited on the time you can introduce the wrinkles and probably have less confidence they are executed properly.

with the crisis pandemic limiting and changing the dynamics, all NFL teams will be experiencing the very same challenges as well.
it will come down to the better or worse coaches in having their teams best prepared ..or a lack there of.
 
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