Why the OL could potentially be better this season!

ESisback said:

So the OP is “Glass Half Full” and you’re “Glass Half Empty”!

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Nah. Want the realist approach

buybuydandavis said:

Tyron's back lasted the season looking healthy, Collins is borderline pro bowl, Martin should only be better starting healthy, and Williams should certainly be better. He's a young guy who needed to bulk up playing a power position.

Biadasz and McGovern are two high quality prospects for C, and we've got Leary as a fallback. We probably start the season better than last year, but that's largely on Frederick starting so slowly.

I like the interior depth, but not Erving over Fleming.

C was going to be fun to watch. Voldemort probably puts McGovern out of the running. Biadasz has at least been playing C for years, and Looney has been our backup.

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-Erving has been a quality backup in the west coast offense. Wasn't much of a fan in Fleming. Both are not starting type of players, but have the ability to spot start if needed.

-Badzzz may take a year to get his body right, but is considered a high level, future starter.

-The McGovern/Williams competition should be a good one, think Williams will have the upper hand due to his experience.

QuincyCarterEra said:

Is one sack and one penalty bad?

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Sacks given up at the Center position mean very little as the majority of time they are help blockers.

JayFord said:

I honestly doubt we have a season

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BOO!!! HISS!!!
You might be right, but I don't want to hear about it.

Frederick was still a good player last year, just not the dominant player he once was. Looney filled in well the year before, so at worst we have a solid option in place but not as good as Frederick. What I will say is depth and competition for starting center and guard is shaping up to be a good battle between McGovern, Williams, Biadasz, and Looney. Whoever doesn't win wouldn't seem like a huge dropoff in talent if called on. Erving and Flemming feels more like a wash. Flemming may be a better starting LT based on Erving's track record there, while Erving has more position flexibility.

Depth looks better, which will be important with covid. Are we actually better among our starters? Maybe depends on the availability and development of the young guys.

Kingofholland said:

Frederick was still a good player last year, just not the dominant player he once was. Looney filled in well the year before, so at worst we have a solid option in place but not as good as Frederick. What I will say is depth and competition for starting center and guard is shaping up to be a good battle between McGovern, Williams, Biadasz, and Looney. Whoever doesn't win wouldn't seem like a huge dropoff in talent if called on. Erving and Flemming feels more like a wash. Flemming may be a better starting LT based on Erving's track record there, while Erving has more position flexibility.

Depth looks better, which will be important with covid. Are we actually better among our starters? Maybe depends on the availability and development of the young guys.

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Nice post. I share this opinion.

Offensively OL is my biggest concern, honestly, would feel better if CWill wasn't coming back from injury. I agree with a previous post this OL is in a rebuild, so finding legit starters at C and LG is necessary because after they need to find a LT or RT depending on where LC plays.

One of the common components of Super Bowl teams is the cohesion of an offensive line that has been playing together for a while.

Three of the Cowboys have been playing together for five season. The extremely unusual part of this is that none of them have turned 30.

The RB has been rumning behind them for four seasons. He knows them. They know him. They know how each other moves, how quickly they move, the direction they are most likely to move to.

You arent going to see that level of familiarity on most teams if any. It can show on the field. When they are in sync, they can bully any defense in the league.

This relationship has been underutilized since it first began. When McCarthy sees the magic, he won't make the same mistake as the previous HC.

In Super Bowl 30 three starters on the Cowboy offensive line were 34, 35, and 37 respectively. Many offensive linemen have had very long careers. This line could stay intact for several more seasons.

Cowboyny said:

When we look at the changes along the OL this season, the majority believe the unit will be not as good, mainly due to the loss of Travis Frederick.

Frederick was an all-pro center when he was healthy, but he was a shell of himself from the physical standpoint after his illness. He decided to call it a career, when he knew he could no longer play up to his high standards. The team will certainly feel his loss in leadership and his high IQ making all the pre-snap protection calls. Keep in mind we aren't replacing the all pro Travis, but rather the last year's version of him.

You can look up all the early 2020 mocks drafts and you will find Tyler Biadasz projected as a 1st round pick. Many media scouts projected him as a sure fire day 2 selection this year. His play did dip somewhat after hip surgery, but many believe he will be able to return close to 100%. Make no mistake, Biadasz is a high level prospect, no matter where he was drafted.

Connor McGovern received a 2nd rd grade from the Cowboy Front Office, in which they decided to take him when still available in rd 3. They said it was a blinking light pick, as he was atop of their draft board. Unfortunately, McGovern got hurt in the off-season workouts, in which he had to have a red shirt type of season. He has starting experience at both Guard and the Center positions. McGovern is considered a high level future starter prospect. The two Connor's are both talented players in which the loser becomes a quality,gameday, active reserve player.

Cameron Erving is an former 1st rd selection who has the versatility to backup all 5 positions and easily can spot start if needed. He might be a small upgrade over Fleming as the team's swing tackle, but he offers veteran insurance across the entire line.

Zach Martin was playing hurt all season long. Still was playing at a high level, but probably not on an all-pro level that he has in the past. Probably his worst season as a Cowboy, which is saying a lot, as he still was a pro bowl player at the position. Better health could have him reach those elite levels of production once again.

The depth along the entire OL is the best we have seen in many years. The offense is going to have backups with starting experience that have the versatility to play multiple positions along the OL. Add in the return to the zone blocking scheme in which the OL has been prior success with, the group has potential to become even better.

A lot of young prospects, but with more experience they can become quality, high end starters for the future. Perhaps we will see some early growing pains, but by mid season this group could be very good!

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Erving is a failure who remarkably is on his 3rd team after being picked in the 1st. He can not play outside to save his life. If that's our swing T option, we're screwed. He's serviceable inside but really is just competing against UDFA types at this point of his career.

QuincyCarterEra said:

Is one sack and one penalty bad?

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No. But stats for OL are crap. Fred was a bit above league average last year but definitely not great.

Ya'll whine about Zeke not breaking runs. Dig deeper and see Fred not getting 2nd level blocks at all.

QuincyCarterEra said:

I only read the very first bit, but we need to stop lying to ourselves.

Hyperbole is always bad, Frederick was not an all-pro last season but he was still a top tier center. He allowed only 1 sacks and had 1 penalty for the season. Saying he was a "shell of himself", come on.
Here is what happened along the OL this season.

LT got another year older
LG added competition from a redshirt sophomore
C lost a top tier center and only added a rookie coming off injury
RG is another year older
RT nothing has changed
Swing tackle we found a way to get worse, which I didn't think was possible.

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I'll go ahead and say it.....If we go young....there will be some growing pains...but I think the kids have a higher ceiling than Frederick/Conner ever had...

LT-Smith
LG-McGovern
C- Biadasz
RG-Martin
RT-Collins

Good Thread - Thanks for Sharing.

it's three ways to look at the OL
1) Look at this OL unit collectively
2) Looking at this OL on an individual basis
3) Looking at this OL when it comes to new coaching, new scheme

Fredrick aside, the same unit that surrendered the 2nd least sacks allowed in the entire NFL, returns four of five members.
But no question Travis' absence was huge in terms of his savvy knack for the game, experience and ability to adjust on the move.

i am one who believes Fredrick's play was serviceable at best. Still trying to recover from his syndrome that took him out
for an entire year in 2018. Reports seem to suggest that he could not sustain blocks as he used to.

He never made it back and there's no telling if there could've been discomfort pain and ailment he privately had to still endure while trying to make it back. Needless he felt he still wasn't where he needed to be and called it quits for a career.

-Williams is also a decent/serviceable player, imo- he continues to take slack because he was a high pick as 2nd round, and that high gives expectations a future pro bowler, but its not looking that way as of now. And to add to it, CW has had knee injuries his first 2 years in the NFL.
Including a season ending one in 2019. If the Cowboys want to further strengthen the depth chart; having Williams flexing to play both OT/OG in a pinch would be a huge plus.

- But that's assuming Williams loses out to inexperienced 2nd yr McCovern.

- i dunno about Tyler Biadasz's recovery point. Possible he may still need a full year still after hip surgery. Otherwise i'm fully on board with
a rookie of his collegiate stature hit the ground running as a starter.

- We won't be at our best with Looney, but we won't be at our worst either. Looney is just decent enough in an emergence injury pinch.
Eventually he'll be exposed. Just as he was vs Rams playoff in 2018.
And he doesn't react well to stunts and twist games upfront and there's a limit to how he gets out on middle LBs at the 2nd level of blocking.

I'll really be hoping our OL doesn't experience a downturn this year.

Hoping the center spot shines by year's end and LG gets settled in!

Of course, the injuries to Tyron and Zack, hopefully won't be returning!

I know, that's a lot of hoping but good things can occur. Keep the faith.

Cowboyny said:

When we look at the changes along the OL this season, the majority believe the unit will be not as good, mainly due to the loss of Travis Frederick.

Frederick was an all-pro center when he was healthy, but he was a shell of himself from the physical standpoint after his illness. He decided to call it a career, when he knew he could no longer play up to his high standards. The team will certainly feel his loss in leadership and his high IQ making all the pre-snap protection calls. Keep in mind we aren't replacing the all pro Travis, but rather the last year's version of him.

You can look up all the early 2020 mocks drafts and you will find Tyler Biadasz projected as a 1st round pick. Many media scouts projected him as a sure fire day 2 selection this year. His play did dip somewhat after hip surgery, but many believe he will be able to return close to 100%. Make no mistake, Biadasz is a high level prospect, no matter where he was drafted.

Connor McGovern received a 2nd rd grade from the Cowboy Front Office, in which they decided to take him when still available in rd 3. They said it was a blinking light pick, as he was atop of their draft board. Unfortunately, McGovern got hurt in the off-season workouts, in which he had to have a red shirt type of season. He has starting experience at both Guard and the Center positions. McGovern is considered a high level future starter prospect. The two Connor's are both talented players in which the loser becomes a quality,gameday, active reserve player.

Cameron Erving is an former 1st rd selection who has the versatility to backup all 5 positions and easily can spot start if needed. He might be a small upgrade over Fleming as the team's swing tackle, but he offers veteran insurance across the entire line.

Zach Martin was playing hurt all season long. Still was playing at a high level, but probably not on an all-pro level that he has in the past. Probably his worst season as a Cowboy, which is saying a lot, as he still was a pro bowl player at the position. Better health could have him reach those elite levels of production once again.

The depth along the entire OL is the best we have seen in many years. The offense is going to have backups with starting experience that have the versatility to play multiple positions along the OL. Add in the return to the zone blocking scheme in which the OL has been prior success with, the group has potential to become even better.

A lot of young prospects, but with more experience they can become quality, high end starters for the future. Perhaps we will see some early growing pains, but by mid season this group could be very good!

Click to expand...

I'm guessing that the new OL scheme new OL coach Joe Philibin will be implementing will be based off positioning and zone scheme
vs man on man maul style Coumbo and asst. consultant Hudson Houck immediately implemented after the Paul Alexander firing.

- Oddly Marc Columbo worked under departed Frank Pollack, who in turn was a descending student of the Bill Callahan style of OL zone blocking scheme.
Speaking of Pollack, his firing seemed to be particularly aimed at the ATL/Chaz Green disaster.
Management admitted in pre-draft interviews that this game haunted them to no ends.
Exit Pollack, Enter Paul Alexander, who was by far even worst than Pollack and fired mid season, completely rare for an OL coach.

- While i really admired what Columbo brought in terms of individual training, and a physical approach and scheme to the OL unit
and he brought top results in terms of top notch pass protection among NFL teams. The splash run plays and run game creativity
seemed so bland and predictability. Everything seemed based on just running up the gut middle. (just like the 'ole Emmitt Smith 90's days)
i guess we thought we'd be just like the Great Wall of Dallas 90's OL ..and keep it simple and domination is due to follow ..
And i guess Columbo was more preferred to the 90's man blocking approach v..vs Frank Pollack's zone blocking scheme approach.

- Plus McCarthy not only has a right to bring in a guy he is better familiar with during his GB days, but also a guy that seems
to have proven to be successful at grooming drafted OL personnel into pro bowl caliber.
If Philibin's approach and scheme can generate productive splash plays vs run. while also maintaining excellent level vs pass
as well as achieving quality depth in backup roles,i'll be all agreement as Joe P. being a replacement for a quality OL coach in Columbo..

My only concerns with the OL:
- the lack of continuity time this OL will have with new OL coach Joe Philbin,.. with no OTA's,.. limited training camp,
practically no preseason game time, ..and totally assuming that we even have a NFL season.

- the full health and recovery of rookie center Tyler Badazzz;

- and BTW, another reason why to keep 2nd rd pick Conner Williams around as long as possible ?
Should Tyron Smith shockingly decide to call it quits (like Travis) - we could slide CW right into the LT role which he excelled at Texas.
And forget the talk of short arms as Lael Collins has similar arm length as does Williams, and look how he is panning out.
Also the option of flipping Collins to LT (he's left handed and he excelled at OT at LSU) while Williams moves to RT as well.

quickccc said:

I'm guessing that the new OL scheme new OL coach Joe Philibin will be implementing will be based off positioning and zone scheme
vs man on man maul style Coumbo and asst. consultant Hudson Houck immediately implemented after the Paul Alexander firing.

- Oddly Marc Columbo worked under departed Frank Pollack, who in turn was a descending student of the Bill Callahan style of OL zone blocking scheme.
Speaking of Pollack, his firing seemed to be particularly aimed at the ATL/Chaz Green disaster.
Management admitted in pre-draft interviews that this game haunted them to no ends.
Exit Pollack, Enter Paul Alexander, who was by far even worst than Pollack and fired mid season, completely rare for an OL coach.

- While i really admired what Columbo brought in terms of individual training, and a physical approach and scheme to the OL unit
and he brought top results in terms of top notch pass protection among NFL teams. The splash run plays and run game creativity
seemed so bland and predictability. Everything seemed based on just running up the gut middle. (just like the 'ole Emmitt Smith 90's days)
i guess we thought we'd be just like the Great Wall of Dallas 90's OL ..and keep it simple and domination is due to follow ..
And i guess Columbo was more preferred to the 90's man blocking approach v..vs Frank Pollack's zone blocking scheme approach.

- Plus McCarthy not only has a right to bring in a guy he is better familiar with during his GB days, but also a guy that seems
to have proven to be successful at grooming drafted OL personnel into pro bowl caliber.
If Philibin's approach and scheme can generate productive splash plays vs run. while also maintaining excellent level vs pass
as well as achieving quality depth in backup roles,i'll be all agreement as Joe P. being a replacement for a quality OL coach in Columbo..

My only concerns with the OL:
- the lack of continuity time this OL will have with new OL coach Joe Philbin,.. with no OTA's,.. limited training camp,
practically no preseason game time, ..and totally assuming that we even have a NFL season.

- the full health and recovery of rookie center Tyler Badazzz;

- and BTW, another reason why to keep 2nd rd pick Conner Williams around as long as possible ?
Should Tyron Smith shockingly decide to call it quits (like Travis) - we could slide CW right into the LT role which he excelled at Texas.
And forget the talk of short arms as Lael Collins has similar arm length as does Williams, and look how he is panning out.
Also the option of flipping Collins to LT (he's left handed and he excelled at OT at LSU) while Williams moves to RT as well.

Click to expand...

Really good stuff here, sir -- a big key to the OL this year will be in the offing with the backup strength being so plentiful. It's a wonderful thing to have that available at this juncture, with some old injuries that are always unpredictable. I think we'll be in good shape with the wise decisions that we've had in our recent offseason. The new staff must be happy with the backup help available to bolster their OL strength this year.

Cowboyny said:

When we look at the changes along the OL this season, the majority believe the unit will be not as good, mainly due to the loss of Travis Frederick.

Frederick was an all-pro center when he was healthy, but he was a shell of himself from the physical standpoint after his illness. He decided to call it a career, when he knew he could no longer play up to his high standards. The team will certainly feel his loss in leadership and his high IQ making all the pre-snap protection calls. Keep in mind we aren't replacing the all pro Travis, but rather the last year's version of him.

You can look up all the early 2020 mocks drafts and you will find Tyler Biadasz projected as a 1st round pick. Many media scouts projected him as a sure fire day 2 selection this year. His play did dip somewhat after hip surgery, but many believe he will be able to return close to 100%. Make no mistake, Biadasz is a high level prospect, no matter where he was drafted.

Connor McGovern received a 2nd rd grade from the Cowboy Front Office, in which they decided to take him when still available in rd 3. They said it was a blinking light pick, as he was atop of their draft board. Unfortunately, McGovern got hurt in the off-season workouts, in which he had to have a red shirt type of season. He has starting experience at both Guard and the Center positions. McGovern is considered a high level future starter prospect. The two Connor's are both talented players in which the loser becomes a quality,gameday, active reserve player.

Cameron Erving is an former 1st rd selection who has the versatility to backup all 5 positions and easily can spot start if needed. He might be a small upgrade over Fleming as the team's swing tackle, but he offers veteran insurance across the entire line.

Zach Martin was playing hurt all season long. Still was playing at a high level, but probably not on an all-pro level that he has in the past. Probably his worst season as a Cowboy, which is saying a lot, as he still was a pro bowl player at the position. Better health could have him reach those elite levels of production once again.

The depth along the entire OL is the best we have seen in many years. The offense is going to have backups with starting experience that have the versatility to play multiple positions along the OL. Add in the return to the zone blocking scheme in which the OL has been prior success with, the group has potential to become even better.

A lot of young prospects, but with more experience they can become quality, high end starters for the future. Perhaps we will see some early growing pains, but by mid season this group could be very good!

Click to expand...

I disagree, the surprise is going to Issac Alarcon Garcia is going to be suprise player on the OL.

He is going to win out the LG spot and beat weak Connor Williams and always injured Connor McGovern.

He is going to be the Quenton Nelson LG of the Dallas.


Will McClay is a genius.

quickccc said:

I'm guessing that the new OL scheme new OL coach Joe Philibin will be implementing will be based off positioning and zone scheme
vs man on man maul style Coumbo and asst. consultant Hudson Houck immediately implemented after the Paul Alexander firing.

- Oddly Marc Columbo worked under departed Frank Pollack, who in turn was a descending student of the Bill Callahan style of OL zone blocking scheme.
Speaking of Pollack, his firing seemed to be particularly aimed at the ATL/Chaz Green disaster.
Management admitted in pre-draft interviews that this game haunted them to no ends.
Exit Pollack, Enter Paul Alexander, who was by far even worst than Pollack and fired mid season, completely rare for an OL coach.

- While i really admired what Columbo brought in terms of individual training, and a physical approach and scheme to the OL unit
and he brought top results in terms of top notch pass protection among NFL teams. The splash run plays and run game creativity
seemed so bland and predictability. Everything seemed based on just running up the gut middle. (just like the 'ole Emmitt Smith 90's days)
i guess we thought we'd be just like the Great Wall of Dallas 90's OL ..and keep it simple and domination is due to follow ..
And i guess Columbo was more preferred to the 90's man blocking approach v..vs Frank Pollack's zone blocking scheme approach.

- Plus McCarthy not only has a right to bring in a guy he is better familiar with during his GB days, but also a guy that seems
to have proven to be successful at grooming drafted OL personnel into pro bowl caliber.
If Philibin's approach and scheme can generate productive splash plays vs run. while also maintaining excellent level vs pass
as well as achieving quality depth in backup roles,i'll be all agreement as Joe P. being a replacement for a quality OL coach in Columbo..

My only concerns with the OL:
- the lack of continuity time this OL will have with new OL coach Joe Philbin,.. with no OTA's,.. limited training camp,
practically no preseason game time, ..and totally assuming that we even have a NFL season.

- the full health and recovery of rookie center Tyler Badazzz;

- and BTW, another reason why to keep 2nd rd pick Conner Williams around as long as possible ?
Should Tyron Smith shockingly decide to call it quits (like Travis) - we could slide CW right into the LT role which he excelled at Texas.
And forget the talk of short arms as Lael Collins has similar arm length as does Williams, and look how he is panning out.
Also the option of flipping Collins to LT (he's left handed and he excelled at OT at LSU) while Williams moves to RT as well.

Click to expand...

-It's very unlikely the team starts multiple first year starters, especially in a year in which there was no on the field off-season activities. Continuity is very important, which I could see Williams/Looney continue to start, but if either struggles, we could see a in-season promotion. We have to expect some growing pains when these young prospects do see the field, even Tyron Smith who was a former top 10 pick, needed time to develop.

-That disaster in Atlanta should of costed Jason Garrett his job not use Pollack as the scapegoat. Clearly Garrett saw what what happening, he could of gave Green more help or even replaced him, he did neither.

-It seems like under Columbo the OL became far better in pass protection, but took a step back in the ground game. When the OL was at it's best, they were killing teams on the ground even in stacked boxes. This of when they employed a zone blocking scheme.

QuincyCarterEra said:

Nah. Want the realist approach

Click to expand...

That’s how most people see themselves.

Floatyworm said:

I'll go ahead and say it.....If we go young....there will be some growing pains...but I think the kids have a higher ceiling than Frederick/Conner ever had...

LT-Smith
LG-McGovern
C- Biadasz
RG-Martin
RT-Collins

Click to expand...

Higher ceiling than one of the best centers of all time?
I doubt it.

quickccc said:

I'm guessing that the new OL scheme new OL coach Joe Philibin will be implementing will be based off positioning and zone scheme
vs man on man maul style Coumbo and asst. consultant Hudson Houck immediately implemented after the Paul Alexander firing.

- Oddly Marc Columbo worked under departed Frank Pollack, who in turn was a descending student of the Bill Callahan style of OL zone blocking scheme.
Speaking of Pollack, his firing seemed to be particularly aimed at the ATL/Chaz Green disaster.
Management admitted in pre-draft interviews that this game haunted them to no ends.
Exit Pollack, Enter Paul Alexander, who was by far even worst than Pollack and fired mid season, completely rare for an OL coach.

- While i really admired what Columbo brought in terms of individual training, and a physical approach and scheme to the OL unit
and he brought top results in terms of top notch pass protection among NFL teams. The splash run plays and run game creativity
seemed so bland and predictability. Everything seemed based on just running up the gut middle. (just like the 'ole Emmitt Smith 90's days)
i guess we thought we'd be just like the Great Wall of Dallas 90's OL ..and keep it simple and domination is due to follow ..
And i guess Columbo was more preferred to the 90's man blocking approach v..vs Frank Pollack's zone blocking scheme approach.

- Plus McCarthy not only has a right to bring in a guy he is better familiar with during his GB days, but also a guy that seems
to have proven to be successful at grooming drafted OL personnel into pro bowl caliber.
If Philibin's approach and scheme can generate productive splash plays vs run. while also maintaining excellent level vs pass
as well as achieving quality depth in backup roles,i'll be all agreement as Joe P. being a replacement for a quality OL coach in Columbo..

My only concerns with the OL:
- the lack of continuity time this OL will have with new OL coach Joe Philbin,.. with no OTA's,.. limited training camp,
practically no preseason game time, ..and totally assuming that we even have a NFL season.

- the full health and recovery of rookie center Tyler Badazzz;

- and BTW, another reason why to keep 2nd rd pick Conner Williams around as long as possible ?
Should Tyron Smith shockingly decide to call it quits (like Travis) - we could slide CW right into the LT role which he excelled at Texas.
And forget the talk of short arms as Lael Collins has similar arm length as does Williams, and look how he is panning out.
Also the option of flipping Collins to LT (he's left handed and he excelled at OT at LSU) while Williams moves to RT as well.

Click to expand...

Philbin has spent most of his time being either an OC or a failed HC.

he was hired because he is big buddies with Mike, who would rather Have KMoore join Colombo.

that is the only reason Colombo was fired.

of course, Colombo was immediately hired by the Gnats.