Any Concerns about Mike Nolan as Defensive Coordinator

Let's put it this way...when the Ravens won the Super bowl in 2000....Running a 4-3 defense...he was dumb enough to come in and change everything. That's concerning.

DuncanIso said:

Rob Davis is the AHC.

no one talks about him on here. He’s not even a coach. He’s a players rep.

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Very few even know his role (Ron Davis). He won't be seen on the sideline, or be camera interviewed
in locker rooms, pre or post games, or likely quoted in the media.

All we know is media driven as he is supposed to be an players relation/in-between players-coaches guy.
Broaddus once speculated that he is the replacement for Calvin Hill who had a similar role when it
came to players' rep and a confident/consultant role.
Frankly i have no problem with his role or his title, that's how McCarthy would like to address it as he is that
familiar with Davis,and he must be that extremely valuable to MM, and he has that right.

DuncanIso said:

edwards and Tomsula are the two best hires.

the LB coach is a GB reject that Mike brought over.

i don’t know how linguist was hired. He’s unknown.

Harris is another GB hire. Fired after the KC meltdown in the playoffs.

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As i posted a link related to DB hire preference, it was reported that Nolan (who you've criticized as a DC hire) actually
wanted to hire Kris Richard, (a guy that you've supported his coaching stint) as the DB coach here.
But apparently an agreement could not be met and Nolan went on to the next DB coach candidate.

- And BTW, even Kris Richard was fired - per his own role meltdown in Seattle.

- Oddly did you leave out well regarded special teams coach John Fassell as one of better hires by McCarthy ?

blueblood70 said:

um lets see

HOW ABOUT WE GIVE HIM 16 GAMES AND THEN JUDGE..SMH

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uh, it's a discussion board, isn't it ? what's wrong with bringing Nolan and the defense as a discussion topic ?
sports channels and social media sources, websites, blogs, ala BTB, etc. YouTube channels, Podcasts, etc, can bring up the DC's and defense as a discussion, but we should not do it here on a discussion board ? .
.. SMH.

John813 said:

As repeated on here before, I watched a Nolan run defense for 2 years when he was in Miami. Back then, he was really aggressive and it worked, but he would go conservative at the weirdest times and it usually backfired.

Say for 2-3 quarters the defense is just blitzing, effectively. Then the 4th quarter they would just let up. And it wouldn't be all on the players. It just felt like the playcalling went from kill to prevent. Looking back on it, that defense lineup was underrated. Paul Soliai was a beast at NT. Langford and Starks were good 3-4 DEs. Cameron Wake, Dansby were great/good LBs and Vontae Davis/Sean Smith was an underrated CB duo ultimately broken up by Jeff Bozo Ireland.

Now, Miami was in the sea of mediocre at that point too, so it's not like he was blowing games with a Marino led offense. They struggled too at times, and cost the team games.

Would he get buzzed from the HC to play it safe? Dunno. But always felt it was odd.

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Hmm, Interesting.
Will look out for such tendencies as the season goes on, .. and if Nolan has evolved from those tendency habits.

quickccc said:

Hmm, Interesting.
Will look out for such tendencies as the season goes on, .. and if Nolan has evolved from those tendency habits.

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The aforementioned description is kinda reminiscent of the infamous and preventive bend but don't break philosophy.
Tendencies and patterns tend to repeat themselves with regards to human behavior.
Just an observation. Most folks (ie DCs like Nolan)don't do wholesale changes if any. Usually in a far more subtle and gradual level would I assume Nolan to change his spots unless that change was based mainly on a substantial gain like inheriting a prime Khalil Mack, Aaron Donald or similar alpha dog to allow basic philosophy changes to justify breaking past tendencies.
The Cowboys do not possess anything remotely resembling a defensive playmaker as these so it will be my opinion that Nolan's BBDB defense won't be too much different from Marinellis. As you've pointed out, maybe with the exception of turnovers. The only question remaining would be the overall impact of how increased turnovers will affect overall team success.
I see that as an actual valid question to be determined.

quickccc said:

I'm still trying to get a track on new Defensive Coordinator Mike Nolan and his past record, pattern, what failed him and what made him successful as a DC.
And what " should " make him a successful DC here with the Cowboys.

As much as it is hyped and talked about the explosive offense, i truly believe our success to the SB will ride on what we produce on Defense.
I'm one of those old schoolers that believe defense decides the wins in SB championships .

Look back at the chances we've had in the playoffs - and it seems every time, every playoff game you can think of we have got butt -kicked outta the playoffs because of the failings of the defense
Green Bay,.. Vikes,.. Rams

And how many DC's have we gone through now ? Brian Stuart ..Wade Phillips..Rob Ryan.. ..Monte Kiffin ... Rod Marinell,... Kris Richard ... and now it's Mike Nolan's turn.

What will Mike Nolan bring here anew...vs the past failed DC's ?

Here were some of the teams and years of Nolan's stints as DC:

NYGiants 1993

Washington 1997

NYJets 2000

Ravens 2002

Denver 2009

Miami 2010

ATL 2012

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I could give you reasons why I dont believe in Nolans defense, but I wont.
I believe in Mike McCarthy and if he believes in his staff, thats good enough for an ignorant fan such as myself.
Go get em MM.

He's a retread but sometimes a new HC just wants people that he knows and trusts. MM can hand the defense over to him and focus on the offense.

Some DVOA rankings (better measure of defense) https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/team-defense:


Baltimore
2001 (before Nolan) #5
2002 (enter Nolan) #9
2003 #1
2004 #3
2005 (after Nolan) #6

Denver
2008 (before Nolan) #32
2009 (enter Nolan) #10
2010 (after Nolan) #30

Miami
2009 (before Nolan) #16
2010 (enter Nolan) #7
2011 #10
2012 (after Nolan) #17

Atlanta
2011 (before Nolan) #4
2012 (enter Nolan) #14
2013 #30
2014 #31
2015 (after Nolan) #22

Rankings (Yards per Drive / Points per Drive) https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/overall-drive-statsdef

*Some people prefer Drive stats to measure defense.

Baltimore
2001 (before Nolan) #1 / #1
2002 (enter Nolan) #14 #15
2003 #1 / #2
2004 #6 / #2
2005 (after Nolan) #4 / #10

Denver
2008 (before Nolan) #31 / #31
2009 (enter Nolan) #10 / #7
2010 (after Nolan) #28 / #31

Miami
2009 (before Nolan) #26 / #26
2010 (enter Nolan) #9 / #13
2011 #11 / #8
2012 (after Nolan) #19 / #9

Atlanta
2011 (before Nolan) #16 / #17
2012 (enter Nolan) #22 / #10
2013 #29 / #32
2014 #32 / #30
2015 (after Nolan) #28 /#18

Denim Chicken said:

Some DVOA rankings (better measure of defense) https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/team-defense:


Baltimore
2001 (before Nolan) #5
2002 (enter Nolan) #9
2003 #1
2004 #3
2005 (after Nolan) #6

Denver
2008 (before Nolan) #32
2009 (enter Nolan) #10
2010 (after Nolan) #30

Miami
2009 (before Nolan) #16
2010 (enter Nolan) #7
2011 #10
2012 (after Nolan) #17

Atlanta
2011 (before Nolan) #4
2012 (enter Nolan) #14
2013 #30
2014 #31
2015 (after Nolan) #22

Click to expand...

damn, ...thanks a lot for this Team by Team- Nolan statistical rankings .

75boyz said:

The aforementioned description is kinda reminiscent of the infamous and preventive bend but don't break philosophy.
Tendencies and patterns tend to repeat themselves with regards to human behavior.

Just an observation. Most folks (ie DCs like Nolan)don't do wholesale changes if any. Usually in a far more subtle and gradual level would I assume Nolan to change his spots unless that change was based mainly on a substantial gain like inheriting a prime Khalil Mack, Aaron Donald or similar alpha dog to allow basic philosophy changes to justify breaking past tendencies.

The Cowboys do not possess anything remotely resembling a defensive play maker as these so it will be my opinion that Nolan's BBDB defense won't be too much different from Marinellis. As you've pointed out, maybe with the exception of turnovers. The only question remaining would be the overall impact of how increased turnovers will affect overall team success.
I see that as an actual valid question to be determined.

Click to expand...

i don't think we have an elite defensive play maker but i do think we have playmakers on a B-tier level at best.
such as Dlaw and LVE. They are those two type players, imo.. i think we have potential players such as Gregory but still to this
day, i still like to think of him as more of a luxury vs a staple core player. Just has missed too much time during his career
still very much inexperienced and still developing at age 27 to be an established player.

Alden Smith as a pass rusher, used to be that kind of player in his earlier part career but like Gregory has missed so much time
and has very iffy eggshell conditions that it's more of a luxury if " than a sure thing, plus

Its gonna be mixed views when it comes to Dlaw as to being.. (or not being) that kind of elite player.

As for Nolan and Marinelli won't be much different:
- Run gap scheme,
- Physical size preference,
- Pass pressure philosophy,
- Hyrid 3-4 change up looks,
- Aggressive gambling vs Bend don't Break,
- DL rotation packages,
- Ability to make in-game adjustments
- Defense vs 2 minute offenses
These will be the elements and traits that i will be looking for,.. most interested in.. and definitely counting on when it comes to
Nolan over Marinelli.

Because if both Nolan and Marinelli have similarities and not far apart from one another, then we'll not be a better, advancing
defense than the previous regime. We have to take on a DC with a different better defensive approach that changes how we
play defense vs the Marinelli's and Rob Ryan's of the past.

quickccc said:

i don't think we have an elite defensive play maker but i do think we have playmakers on a B-tier level at best.
such as Dlaw and LVE. They are those two type players, imo.. i think we have potential players such as Gregory but still to this
day, i still like to think of him as more of a luxury vs a staple core player. Just has missed too much time during his career
still very much inexperienced and still developing at age 27 to be an established player.

Alden Smith as a pass rusher, used to be that kind of player in his earlier part career but like Gregory has missed so much time
and has very iffy eggshell conditions that it's more of a luxury if " than a sure thing, plus

Its gonna be mixed views when it comes to Dlaw as to being.. (or not being) that kind of elite player.

As for Nolan and Marinelli won't be much different:
- Run gap scheme,
- Physical size preference,
- Pass pressure philosophy,
- Hyrid 3-4 change up looks,
- Aggressive gambling vs Bend don't Break,
- DL rotation packages,
- Ability to make in-game adjustments
- Defense vs 2 minute offenses
These will be the elements and traits that i will be looking for,.. most interested in.. and definitely counting on when it comes to
Nolan over Marinelli.

Because if both Nolan and Marinelli have similarities and not far apart from one another, then we'll not be a better, advancing
defense than the previous regime. We have to take on a DC with a different better defensive approach that changes how we
play defense vs the Marinelli's and Rob Ryan's of the past.

Click to expand...

Excellent OP and I commend you on your unbiased neutral tone of writing and civilized sharing of opinions. Nice discussion man.

Go Cowboys

If any of us are not concerned every year with the Cowboys D, we're not paying attention. Last season they added a worse ST to make the D look better.

My concern is not with Nolan as I think every coach is talent dependent to carry out his plan. There are not new developments in defense, secrets that the others don't know. The DC's for PIT, CHI, BAL and TB in the past were able to have great talent. The 4-6 and Cover 2 don't get press without that talent. Zimmer has a good D now because of the talent, not because he is a better coach.

Nolan is seasoned and there's not much he hasn't seen in his years of coaching and I am not aware of a better one available when he was hired. Add to the fact this is a HC in a rep saving mode and he trusts him.

My question always comes back to the talent. Can this DC run his plan without reverting to the BDBD that every DC before him as had to do since the mid 90's. The one that didn't was Ryan and he was a walking disaster. His plan did not include his players being aware of exactly when they're supposed to be on the field.

Nolan's test will come when he has to rely on depth and not cover for the weak link in the chain of his D. Does he know how to do this job? Yes, but it remains to be seen if he can do it here.

quickccc said:

uh, it's a discussion board, isn't it ? what's wrong with bringing Nolan and the defense as a discussion topic ?
sports channels and social media sources, websites, blogs, ala BTB, etc. YouTube channels, Podcasts, etc, can bring up the DC's and defense as a discussion, but we should not do it here on a discussion board ? .
.. SMH.

Click to expand...

was done when they were hired, nothings changed since,...so ?

quickccc said:

I'm still trying to get a track on new Defensive Coordinator Mike Nolan and his past record, pattern, what failed him and what made him successful as a DC.
And what " should " make him a successful DC here with the Cowboys.

As much as it is hyped and talked about the explosive offense, i truly believe our success to the SB will ride on what we produce on Defense.
I'm one of those old schoolers that believe defense decides the wins in SB championships .

Look back at the chances we've had in the playoffs - and it seems every time, every playoff game you can think of we have got butt -kicked outta the playoffs because of the failings of the defense
Green Bay,.. Vikes,.. Rams

And how many DC's have we gone through now ? Brian Stuart ..Wade Phillips..Rob Ryan.. ..Monte Kiffin ... Rod Marinell,... Kris Richard ... and now it's Mike Nolan's turn.

What will Mike Nolan bring here anew...vs the past failed DC's ?

Here were some of the teams and years of Nolan's stints as DC:

NYGiants 1993

Washington 1997

NYJets 2000

Ravens 2002

Denver 2009

Miami 2010

ATL 2012

Click to expand...

..next question would be. How did those stints go for him? Then calculate an avg on the whole thing. Marinelli proved to us when the big games came up, he disappeared faster then Harvey the Rabbit.

quickccc said:

I'm still trying to get a track on new Defensive Coordinator Mike Nolan and his past record, pattern, what failed him and what made him successful as a DC.
And what " should " make him a successful DC here with the Cowboys.

As much as it is hyped and talked about the explosive offense, i truly believe our success to the SB will ride on what we produce on Defense.
I'm one of those old schoolers that believe defense decides the wins in SB championships .

Look back at the chances we've had in the playoffs - and it seems every time, every playoff game you can think of we have got butt -kicked outta the playoffs because of the failings of the defense
Green Bay,.. Vikes,.. Rams

And how many DC's have we gone through now ? Brian Stuart ..Wade Phillips..Rob Ryan.. ..Monte Kiffin ... Rod Marinell,... Kris Richard ... and now it's Mike Nolan's turn.

What will Mike Nolan bring here anew...vs the past failed DC's ?

Here were some of the teams and years of Nolan's stints as DC:

NYGiants 1993

Washington 1997

NYJets 2000

Ravens 2002

Denver 2009

Miami 2010

ATL 2012

Click to expand...

Nolan was so good in NY he became the next head coach, so good in Washington he became the Head Coach, so good in NY again he became the next head coach, so good in Baltimore he became the next Head Coach, so good in Denver he became the next Head Coach, and so good in Miami, he became the next Head Coach.....NOT.

His defensive performance got him one head Coaching job in the NFL and he failed miserably. Rex Ryan did better than that performance. George Edwards is the coach to watch in Dallas. He has the real impact defensive resume. Especially if you are flexing between 4-3 and 3-4, George Edwards is more important to the Cowboys defense.

eromeopolk said:

Nolan was so good in NY he became the next head coach, so good in Washington he became the Head Coach, so good in NY again he became the next head coach, so good in Baltimore he became the next Head Coach, so good in Denver he became the next Head Coach, and so good in Miami, he became the next Head Coach.....NOT.

His defensive performance got him one head Coaching job in the NFL and he failed miserably. Rex Ryan did better than that performance. George Edwards is the coach to watch in Dallas. He has the real impact defensive resume. Especially if you are flexing between 4-3 and 3-4, George Edwards is more important to the Cowboys defense.

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Nice post.

eromeopolk said:

Nolan was so good in NY he became the next head coach, so good in Washington he became the Head Coach, so good in NY again he became the next head coach, so good in Baltimore he became the next Head Coach, so good in Denver he became the next Head Coach, and so good in Miami, he became the next Head Coach.....NOT.

His defensive performance got him one head Coaching job in the NFL and he failed miserably. Rex Ryan did better than that performance. George Edwards is the coach to watch in Dallas. He has the real impact defensive resume. Especially if you are flexing between 4-3 and 3-4, George Edwards is more important to the Cowboys defense.

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Not interested in nolan as a head coach,.nor.as a future head coach.
His hire here is to rev up the defense
Has George Edwards ever ran a 3-4 defensive scheme as a DC?
And it had to be a reason why he was fired in Minnesota by Mike Zimmer as DC.

quickccc said:

Not interested in nolan as a head coach,.nor.as a future head coach.
His hire here is to rev up the defense
Has George Edwards ever ran a 3-4 defensive scheme as a DC?
And it had to be a reason why he was fired in Minnesota by Mike Zimmer as DC.

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At this point in their careers, Edwards is clearly the better DC. its not even close.

Someone, not named Mike M, hired Edwards. It probably came from Stephen.

They saw the mess that Nolan made in Atlanta in 2012-14 and freaked.

Edwards has that weird title too. "Senior Defensive Assistant." What exactly does that do for team? break down film?