Emmitt Smith/Jerry Rice Double Standard (BTB)

QuincyCarterEra · Aug 10, 2020

Runwildboys said:
Is that including receiving yards?

Yes sir! Full picture

InTheZone · Aug 10, 2020

Considering emmitt has an unbreakable record that has to mean something.

QuincyCarterEra · Aug 10, 2020

Everyone on here complained about DeMarco's "fumbling problem"

Touches per fumble:
Murray- 100.6
Emmitt- 80.7

Also found that Barry Sanders had 10!! Fumbles in a season. That's insane.

Runwildboys · Aug 10, 2020

When all is said and done, it's the same as it always is: You just can't compare players of different eras well. It's hard to compare players of the same era, simply because they play with different teammates and against different teams, with different offensive and defensive philosophies. Now try to compare players in a passing league vs. running league, different rules, etc. It just can't be accurately done.

bandfan · Aug 10, 2020

gjkoeppen said:
This is true. Brown led the league in rushing all but one year of his career. That's 8 years out of 9. No other RB has come anywhere close to dominating the league like that. That being said, Emmitt is still the best because a RB's job is primarily running the ball and Emmitt has the most career yards.
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You could also make the parameters to who is the most "talented" running back ever and everything changes...

DFWJC · Aug 10, 2020

I don't think Emmitt is over or underrated.
Almost everyone has at least as a top 10 back of all time. Many have him top 5 and even on very rare occasions, I've even seen people rank him 1st or 2nd.
In any case, that's damn good.

LatinMind · Aug 10, 2020

Nav22 said:
Yep.

Michael Jordan is the GOAT NBA player because of his career accomplishments.

Jerry Rice is the GOAT WR because of his career accomplishments.

Tom Brady is the GOAT QB because of his career accomplishments.

Running back is the only position where they try to switch it up. Nope, not on my watch. Emmitt’s the GOAT RB. Period.

Brady isnt the GOAT. He started dominating when the rules changed. IMO the GOAT is Montana

conner01 · Aug 10, 2020

RS12 said:
Love Emmitt I'd say top 50 for sure All time. Rice is one of the top 5 players I ever saw step on a field. Is what it is.

Rice records are so far above anyone close to him
Smith has the rushing record and while some argue he is or is not the best RB there is no argument that rice is the greatest WR ever and his records even in a league where passing is king, will stand a very long time
It’s no knock on smith but if you ranked the greatest players at all positions, rice would be above smith

OmerV · Aug 10, 2020

baltcowboy said:
I have heard fans on this board say imagine if Barry Sanders ran behind our offensive line. He gets the least amount of the credit of the triplets. Emmitt was the true lynchpin of the 90s Cowboys.

I don't think recognizing Sanders greatness as a runner necessarily equates to underestimating Emmitt. Reasonable people, including Cowboy fans, can fully appreciate Emmitt and still think Sanders was a better pure runner.

I personally would say they each worked better in their particular offenses than the other would have. In other words, Smith didn't have the sheer quickness and speed to maneuver as well in the spread type offense the Lions used, and Sanders didn't have the strength to run in a more traditional, run the ball down the throat of the opponent type of offense like Dallas used. What they had in common is great vision and balance.

Fastpitch Dad · Aug 10, 2020

QuincyCarterEra said:
Kareem has more MVPs, more all defense, more all NBA.

Karen's accolades outshine Jordan's, and he's never mentioned in the top 3 of NBA players. I do like how you tried to find a way to fit your narrative though by combining finals MVPs and season MVPs lol, it was inventive.

Bill Russell's name is never brought up in the conversation either. He changed the way the game was played and was even better on defense than offense. Oscar Roberston is another, but I think a lot of these kinda things are what have you done for me lately.

Jake · Aug 10, 2020

Bigdog said:
And to think that Jerry Rice could have been a Cowboy if Bill Walsh did not see a sports highlight clip of him on the local news in his hotel room room while his team was playing the Saints the next day. He even traded up to the 16th pick from the last pick right before the Cowboys 17th pick that draft year to snag him before the Cowboys could. The Cowboys were in shock when the Niners picked him.

I remember the Niners trading up (I think it was with the Patriots) but I never heard the Bill Walsh story. Even as recently as the mid-80s scouting for talent was a lot different than today.

pansophy · Aug 10, 2020

buybuydandavis said:
Jim Brown was the GOAT RB, and it's not even close. All Pro, league leader in rushing yards in 8 years of his 8 year career, 100 yards+ per game in 7 years. Probably few RB records he didn't hold when he retired, and probably could have played years more if he had wanted to, retiring after 3 straight All Pro seasons. League MVP 3 times.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrowJi00.htm

Emmitt had a 5 year stint of dominance plus a 9 year stint as a quality RB, giving him the career records. MVP once.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitEm00.htm

Jerry had a 10 out of 11 year All Pro tear *plus* a 8 year stint as a quality WR to give him the career receiving numbers. He's got the combination of Jim Brown's achievements and Emmitt's achievements. GOAT.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RiceJe00.htm

I'm not that impressed with career accumulation of yardage. I'm against Frank Gore making it in. HOF to me is about being near the top for a chunk of time. That's not Frank Gore.

For GOAT, I lean toward Jim Brown's dominance over Jerry, but Emmitt isn't in the ballpark of either.

Pro Football Reference has a HOF Monitor metric for all positions. No metric is perfect, but it does sort them pretty sensibly.

Emitt is in a pack of Payton, Brown, and Sanders.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_RB.htm

Jerry has twice the score of any other WR. GOAT.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_WR.htm

Jerry Rice’s metrics are 100 points higher than any other player at any position. That’s incredible.

gjkoeppen · Aug 10, 2020

bandfan said:
You could also make the parameters to who is the most "talented" running back ever and everything changes...

Most talented is strictly opinions. To me, the primary job of a RB is rushing and therefore the RB that leads all RB's in the history of the league is the best RB.
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DFWJC · Aug 10, 2020

I don't get into the Barry vs Emmitt debates.
Tomatoes--tomahtoes.

However, Barry was in such an unusual situation. The Lions front office seemed to not even care about winning at the time.
The dude was ahead of Emmitt at the time and on his way to breaking Payton's all-time rushing record and left while he was still dominating.
He averaged about 1700 yards a season his last 3 years! Insane.
And he was pulling away from Emmitt, as he had by then, outrushed him 3 straight years by a large margin
He was still in top shape and showing no signs of real decline.
If he played just 2-3 more years--and he could've gone way longer than that--he would still be holding all the records.

Jake · Aug 10, 2020

QuincyCarterEra said:
A regular season MVP is worth at least 3x that of a finals MVP though to be sure.

I'll take Things Made Up On The Spot for $400, Alex.

Valkyr · Aug 10, 2020

QuincyCarterEra said:
Wait... who is the GOAT WR?

Kevin Ogletree? Wane McGarity? Jason Tucker?

Take your pick there.

DFWJC · Aug 10, 2020

Fastpitch Dad said:
Bill Russell's name is never brought up in the conversation either. He changed the way the game was played and was even better on defense than offense. ...

yeah
Russell was a defensive and rebounding monster.
Always considered a "winner"
He was not really a great offensive layer. Ok enough, but not great. For example, he never averaged 19 ppg in a single season. Was more of a 15 pt guy

Runwildboys · Aug 10, 2020

So do "intangibles" count in this thread?

Runwildboys · Aug 10, 2020

DFWJC said:
I don't get into the Barry vs Emmitt debates.
Tomatoes--tomahtoes.

However, Barry was in such an unusual situation. The Lions front office seemed to not even care about winning at the time.
The dude was ahead of Emmitt at the time and on his way to breaking Payton's all-time rushing record and left while he was still dominating.
He averaged about 1700 yards a season his last 3 years! Insane.
And he was pulling away from Emmitt, as he had by then, outrushed him 3 straight years by a large margin
He was still in top shape and showing no signs of real decline.
If he played just 2-3 more years--and he could've gone way longer than that--he would still be holding all the records.

Maybe. Or maybe he would have had his leg broken behind the line of scrimmage. You just can't say with any degree of certainty what would have happened.

OmerV · Aug 10, 2020

QuincyCarterEra said:
Kareem has more MVPs, more all defense, more all NBA.

Karen's accolades outshine Jordan's, and he's never mentioned in the top 3 of NBA players. I do like how you tried to find a way to fit your narrative though by combining finals MVPs and season MVPs lol, it was inventive.

Of course part of what has happened is that guys like MJ, Kobe, LeBron are all more noticeable to the public because they came up in a time where there are boatloads of media sources and where fans can watch every game played by every team if they want. Players are celebrities now and their faces and highlights are plastered everywhere. That's not how it was when older players came up through the NBA. I can remember trying to watch the NBA playoffs when Lew Alcindor (I assume you know who that is) was with the Bucks, and they played games on tape delay after the evening news. Guys like Chamberlain and Robertson never had that, and Jabbar only nicked the edge of it, but for their time they were every bit as dominant, or more so, as anyone has ever been.

Emmitt Smith/Jerry Rice Double Standard (BTB)

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