Emmitt Smith/Jerry Rice Double Standard (BTB)

QuincyCarterEra

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"So MVP of the league is "generally" the best player over an 82 game sample size, with 300+ players competing.

The finals MVP is "generally" the best player over a 4-7 game sample size out of the 20ish players that see the floor."

Notice somebody still hasn't been able to come up with anything coherent to respond to this
Just childish responses lol
 
StuckMojo

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QuincyCarterEra said:
Yeah, your argument just doesn't make sense.

There is a case for Westbrook who shattered the triple-double record having a better season than Durant, while also holding advantages in every measurable statistical category, while there is no case for Iggy having a better season than 30+(3 on his own team) other players that year. You already know this, but have your heels dug in.

Fact is, if it was entirely based off of accolades, Kareem would be the GOAT, that's all I was pointing out.

Btw Steph didn't get robbed, Iggy was better for the very small sample size of the finals. This only further proves the point.

Kareem was the best player in the entire league 6 times, Jordan only 5. That's the point.
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Well there were quite a few seasons MJ should have been the MVP but wasn’t given the award. MJ was the alpha of the alphas in the NBA.

My list has MJ 1, KAJ 2!
 

Manster_Mash

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If you want to end the argument about it was him or his line, just watch games when emmitt wasn't in the lineup.

Ends that argument quick.
 
Kingofholland

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Aviano90 said:
Who is the best is a fruitless conversation. There is no right or wrong answer although many people believe their opinion should be the same opinion others should have, too. There is also no prize that goes to the winner, even if a winner could be agreed upon.
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Yep everyone has their opinion it's impossible to ever get a true consensus. Those that saw Jim Brown play will probably say him. Those growing up in the 70s and 80s would probably say Payton. Those in the 90s would probably say Barry or Emmitt. The next group may say Tomlinson or Faulk. Then there's guys that had great careers Dorsett, Dickerson that could also get into the top 5 discussion.

I think you can argue top 5 order, but a top 5 list without Emmitt would be crazy.
 
Flamma

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CowboyRoy said:
Barry didn't need a spread formation, that is nonsense. Barry didn't even need holes for heavens sake. If Barry had Emmitt type holes, he would have ran for 3000 yards.

And I can tell you that during the Emmitt years, I always said I would take Emmitt over Barry. But since I understand the NFL much better than I did back then, the truth is that Barr was the better back. Give me Emmitt possibly down at the 2 yard line or 3rd and 2 for consistency.
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Actually Barry did need the spread formation. I forget what year it was, but Detroit tried to run Barry behind a lead blocker and it was a disaster. They had to go back to the spread, or run and shoot, whatever it was, and Barry still managed to lead the league in rushing. But for the first 3-4 games he was completely ineffective. They usually took him out in GL situations too. I'm pretty sure it was in an episode of "A Football Life".
 
CowboyRoy

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Flamma said:
Actually Barry did need the spread formation. I forget what year it was, but Detroit tried to run Barry behind a lead blocker and it was a disaster. They had to go back to the spread, or run and shoot, whatever it was, and Barry still managed to lead the league in rushing. But for the first 3-4 games he was completely ineffective. They usually took him out in GL situations too. I'm pretty sure it was in an episode of "A Football Life".
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3 games on a Detroit team proves little. Barry, in Dallas, with Moose and our system would have been devastating.
 
Flamma

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CowboyRoy said:
3 games on a Detroit team proves little. Barry, in Dallas, with Moose and our system would have been devastating.
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I actually went back and looked it up. Barry always played out of the spread and single set back. It was 1997 with a new head coach they tried to run him out of the power I formation and he got 53 yards in the first 2 games. They went back to the single setback spread and he ended up rushing for over 2000 yards. Bottom line is, Barry's success was out of the single set back spread formation his entire career in the NFL.
 
Super_Kazuya

Super_Kazuya

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Flamma said:
Actually Barry did need the spread formation. I forget what year it was, but Detroit tried to run Barry behind a lead blocker and it was a disaster. They had to go back to the spread, or run and shoot, whatever it was, and Barry still managed to lead the league in rushing. But for the first 3-4 games he was completely ineffective. They usually took him out in GL situations too. I'm pretty sure it was in an episode of "A Football Life".
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It was the 1997 season, and it was 2 games. He famously ran for only 53 yards combined in the first two games and then ran for 2,000 in the final 14. I don’t think 2 games is really enough time to make any kind of judgement, but you can definitely say they found something that worked after that.
Edit: wow, jinx!
 
CowboyRoy

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Flamma said:
I actually went back and looked it up. Barry always played out of the spread and single set back. It was 1997 with a new head coach they tried to run him out of the power I formation and he got 53 yards in the first 2 games. They went back to the single setback spread and he ended up rushing for over 2000 yards. Bottom line is, Barry's success was out of the single set back spread formation his entire career in the NFL.
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I get it. A guy like that is probably better out of a spread than the jumbo. Regardless, Dallas would have made the appropriate adjustments and that Oline would have steamrolled for him. However............I have no doubts that Barry would have been just fine with Moose blocking for him.
 
BrAinPaiNt

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CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
STOP WITH THE PERSONAL ATTACKS AND NAME CALLING. TIME TO GROW UP.
 
Reverend Conehead

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Rice was supposed to be a Dallas Cowboy. The Cowboys were all set to draft him, but the Commie Niners traded up to draft him just ahead us. That was a dark day and was a victory for communism over all that is good and pure. Then Rice helped the goons win more Super Bowls in the dark decade that was the 80s. Rice and the 9ers brought a lot of joy to Satan in that decade. Anyone who rooted for them is an evil person who sacrifices cute little puppies and kittens to the Devil.
 
Chuck 54

Chuck 54

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Thomas82 said:
I just finished reading a BTB article that talks about this, and I saw in the comments that even Cowboys fans sell Emmitt short in this discussion. Without trying to sound biased, here are my thoughts on it:

Jerry Rice is the equivalent of Emmitt Smith at the wide receiver position. Just like Emmitt does for running back, he holds the majority of the major NFL records for receivers.

They also have a couple of career parallels: They both slid in the draft because of concerns over their measurables at the NFL Combine. Neither was the first player selected at their position in their drafts. They both won 3 Super Bowls. They even retired the same year.

But......Jerry actually played on more stacked teams than Emmitt. His supporting cast had a combined 69 Pro Bowls and 18 All-Pro (1st Team) selections between them. If you include his offensive lines, that makes 126 Pro Bowls and 33 All-Pro selections. By comparison, Emmitt's supporting cast had 48 Pro Bowls and 14 All-Pro selections.

If Jerry Rice is widely considered the GOAT wide receiver and gets a pass for the teammates he played with, why does Emmitt Smith get penalized for his teammates when his name is mentioned as an all-time great?

Emmitt's supporting cast was top-notch, but HE was the most important and indispensable out of the group. Even with all the talent that Emmitt had surrounding him, teams still feared him the most when they played the Cowboys. He routinely faced defenses stacked with 8 and 9 men in the box. They wanted to take their chances with the passing game and not let Emmitt get going.

I have a little bit more to add, but for right now I'll leave off here and give you a link to the article below:

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/202...itt-smith-is-also-the-greatest-rb-of-all-time
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There will never be a consensus on the greatest RB ever, and trying to base it only on the most career yards is foolish. Emmitt was a great RB, but better than fellow Cowboys HOFer Tony Dorsett? Better than Gayle Sayers, Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, OJ Simpson, and others? Sorry. When Walter held the rushing title, I knew he was great, but he never came close to passing the eye test when compared to Brown, Sayers, and Simpson, in my opinion.

I love #22, but give me my choice of any RB in history for a team, I’m taking Sayers, Simpson, or Brown.
 
Chuck 54

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The Kansas Comet scored 22 TDs in his rookie year in 1965 (12 games). Gayle Sayers was unstoppable and scored from everywhere in every way.
First preseason game...77 yard punt return, 93 yard kickoff return, and threw a 25 yard TD pass vs the Rams.
Next to last game of the season, on a muddy field where others could barely walk, he glided over the mud for 6 TDs vs 49ers....including 80 yard pass/run, a 50 yard rushing TD, and a 65 yard punt return. Watch some vintage film and you’ll never judge a guy just on career stats again. Sayers was a great rusher, could tak a pass the distance, and was often the best punt and kick returner on the field.
 
Irvin88_4life

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CowboyRoy said:
I get it. A guy like that is probably better out of a spread than the jumbo. Regardless, Dallas would have made the appropriate adjustments and that Oline would have steamrolled for him. However............I have no doubts that Barry would have been just fine with Moose blocking for him.
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You can speculate like that with any player. For example, Irvin played on a run dominate first team but if he played for the 49ers and Rice on the Cowboys Irvin would without a doubt be considered the greatest WR
 
CowboyRoy

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Irvin88_4life said:
You can speculate like that with any player. For example, Irvin played on a run dominate first team but if he played for the 49ers and Rice on the Cowboys Irvin would without a doubt be considered the greatest WR
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I find that comment completely laughable. Im sure Irvin would have better numbers. But no chance does he have Rice or Moss numbers.

Irvin was known for leadership, route running , hands, toughness. Didnt need Montana and Bill Walsh to see that. And you didnt need them to see that he didnt have the deep speed, the separation, or the YAC to be on that level.
 
Johnny23

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QuincyCarterEra said:
My reply should have been:
Do all-NBA, all defense, and all star appearances mean nothing to you?
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Jordan retired twice. Stockton is the only big name guy one from the 1984 draft that played the full 20 season from 1984-85 to 2002-2003
 
Hypotenoose

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Thomas82 said:
I just finished reading a BTB article that talks about this, and I saw in the comments that even Cowboys fans sell Emmitt short in this discussion. Without trying to sound biased, here are my thoughts on it:

Jerry Rice is the equivalent of Emmitt Smith at the wide receiver position. Just like Emmitt does for running back, he holds the majority of the major NFL records for receivers.

They also have a couple of career parallels: They both slid in the draft because of concerns over their measurables at the NFL Combine. Neither was the first player selected at their position in their drafts. They both won 3 Super Bowls. They even retired the same year.

But......Jerry actually played on more stacked teams than Emmitt. His supporting cast had a combined 69 Pro Bowls and 18 All-Pro (1st Team) selections between them. If you include his offensive lines, that makes 126 Pro Bowls and 33 All-Pro selections. By comparison, Emmitt's supporting cast had 48 Pro Bowls and 14 All-Pro selections.

If Jerry Rice is widely considered the GOAT wide receiver and gets a pass for the teammates he played with, why does Emmitt Smith get penalized for his teammates when his name is mentioned as an all-time great?

Emmitt's supporting cast was top-notch, but HE was the most important and indispensable out of the group. Even with all the talent that Emmitt had surrounding him, teams still feared him the most when they played the Cowboys. He routinely faced defenses stacked with 8 and 9 men in the box. They wanted to take their chances with the passing game and not let Emmitt get going.

I have a little bit more to add, but for right now I'll leave off here and give you a link to the article below:

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/202...itt-smith-is-also-the-greatest-rb-of-all-time
Click to expand...
Been saying this for years. I’ve maintained that Jerry Rice is the receiver analog to Emmitt Smith as running back. Great post.
 
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