Talent or Coaching

JohnnyTheFox · Sep 24, 2020

WillieBeamen said:
Coaching

A Great Coach will take a sub-par talented team further then a talented team with sub-par coaching

Case in point, the 2003 Cowboys and the 2019 Cowboys

Another case in point, several NE teams of the last 2 decades.

kskboys · Sep 24, 2020

WillieBeamen said:
Coaching

A Great Coach will take a sub-par talented team further then a talented team with sub-par coaching

Case in point, the 2003 Cowboys and the 2019 Cowboys

Of course, it does depend on just how subpar that talent is.

Diehardblues · Sep 24, 2020

WillieBeamen said:
Coaching

A Great Coach will take a sub-par talented team further then a talented team with sub-par coaching

Case in point, the 2003 Cowboys and the 2019 Cowboys

I’d agree with 2003. I’m not sold yet 2020 is anymore than the 8-8 team last year.

fivetwos · Sep 24, 2020

The way to do it is take chances on injury prone players and head cases in the draft.

Then, when they arent on the field because they are injured or suspended you fill in with UDFAs.

Then wonder why you go a quarter century without even coming close.

kskboys · Sep 24, 2020

fivetwos said:
The way to do it is take chances on injury prone players and head cases in the draft.

Then, when they arent on the field because they are injured or suspended you fill in with UDFAs.

Then wonder why you go a quarter century without even coming close.

And small schoolers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Diehardblues · Sep 24, 2020

kskboys said:
Of course, it does depend on just how subpar that talent is.

Right. How far was Jimmy going with that teams talent in 1989.

This era with Jerry’s dysfunction we’ve been talent dependent. Without great coaching on the most part could only go as far as the talent took us.

Which some years wasn’t bad. On the brink a few times of breaking thru to a championship appearance . Not a SB

Which is kinda of amazing considering how screwed up we’ve been this era.

HungryLion · Sep 24, 2020

WillieBeamen said:
Coaching

A Great Coach will take a sub-par talented team further then a talented team with sub-par coaching

Case in point, the 2003 Cowboys and the 2019 Cowboys

I hear ya.

Developing talent is also a key aspect of coaching. Great coaches maximize their players talents and put them in position to succeed. Crappy coaches hamstring their players talents.

you need to have a crazy strong roster to overcome poor coaching.

I know people like to bring up the cowboys winning a super bowl with Switzer. Switzer was a national championship winning coach. Was he as good as jimmy? No. Did he seem to mail it in after a couple years? Yes. But the dude knew football.

Diehardblues · Sep 24, 2020

DakPresgoat said:
I hear ya.

Developing talent is also a key aspect of coaching. Great coaches maximize their players talents and put them in position to succeed. Crappy coaches hamstring their players talents.

you need to have a crazy strong roster to overcome poor coaching.

I know people like to bring up the cowboys winning a super bowl with Switzer. Switzer was a national championship winning coach. Was he as good as jimmy? No. Did he seem to mail it in after a couple years? Yes. But the dude knew football.

Switzer worse Cowboys HC . It’s not even close.

Yes, he was very successful at OU. He was nothing more than a figure head in Dallas. Did very little coaching.

He ushered in the Puppet era.

xwalker · Sep 24, 2020

cowboybish said:
Which - Talent or Coaching is more important? Can an average talent team w good coaching beat a very talented team with average coaching. Which team wins 2 of 3?

kskboys · Sep 24, 2020

Diehardblues said:
Switzer worse Cowboys HC . It’s not even close.

Yes, he was very successful at OU. He was nothing more than a figure head in Dallas. Did very little coaching.

He ushered in the Puppet era.

Yeah, I left that one alone since we squabbled about that already. Switzer was terrible at DALL.

HungryLion · Sep 24, 2020

Diehardblues said:
Switzer worse Cowboys HC . It’s not even close.

Yes, he was very successful at OU. He was nothing more than a figure head in Dallas. Did very little coaching.

He ushered in the Puppet era.

He is not the worst head coach ever for the cowboys.

The point I’m making is. Even he had the coaching acumen to let the players do what needed to be done to win a lot of football games. Enough to win another super bowl.

even with spectacular talent like the cowboys had during those years you still needed a coach who knew what he was doing to a degree.

look at Jerry’s results since. You said yourself the puppet era began. How have the results been since those days when Jerry thought he could just hire any old coach and win a super bowl? Utter failure.

the whole situation is proof
That Jerry was wrong about being able
To have any coach he wanted and win a super bowl.

coaching matters

Idgit · Sep 24, 2020

I think we’re seeing it’s “talent” since we fixed the coaching problem and are somehow, inexplicably, getting the exact same results.

But at least it’s good we can finally put the coaching questions to rest.

HungryLion · Sep 24, 2020

Idgit said:
I think we’re seeing it’s “talent” since we fixed the coaching problem and are somehow, inexplicably, getting the exact same results.

But at least it’s good we can finally put the coaching questions to rest.

Looks like somebody may be counting his chickens before they hatch.

Idgit · Sep 24, 2020

DakPresgoat said:
Looks like somebody may be counting his chickens before they hatch.

Those chickens were already counted in the offseason, brother. I’m just relying on the forum’s math. But I do have to admit it’s really nice going into these first two games knowing that the coaching is so rock-solid and the issues must be elsewhere.

Somebody should probably tell Jaylon Smith and Everson Griffen, though.

Risen Star · Sep 24, 2020

Obviously it's coaching or we'd be winning titles on a routine basis.

HungryLion · Sep 24, 2020

Idgit said:
Those chickens were already counted in the offseason, brother. I’m just relying on the forum’s math. But I do have to admit it’s really nice going into these first two games knowing that the coaching is so rock-solid and the issues must be elsewhere.

Somebody should probably tell Jaylon Smith and Everson Griffen, though.

You really think players complaining is indicative of the quality of coaching or not?

you and I both know the results are what’s going to matter. And not the results after just 2 games. The long term results.

HungryLion · Sep 24, 2020

I do think there’s a bit of a “chicken or the egg” effect with the coaching/talent debate.

ultimately both do matter.

It’s important to remember that it’s also
A Coaches job to recognize talent, keep players who have talent that can be developed and cut players who don’t have enough talent.

good coaching leads to an increase in the teams talent level through development of players and roster construction.

on the flip side. Poor talent being brought in also leads to more losing which gets coaches fired.

75boyz · Sep 25, 2020

sureletsrace said:
I think it is an exercise in futility to try to compare talent vs coaching. I think the best coaches get the most out of their talent, and I think the best coaches become the best coaches because of their access to talent. It's a perfect binary system that feeds itself.

This.

Talent or Coaching

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