Cowboys Defensive Alignments

DanA · Sep 25, 2020

xwalker said:
And this overall coverage scheme is different and is integrated into how they use Aldon Smith.

This scheme focuses in stopping the run with the front 7 which frees up allows for keeping both Safeties back out of the box which is better for coverage.

The old scheme often had the SS right up almost on the line. That meant it was easier to isolate a player like DLB Damien Wilson in coverage.

You only look at things in isolation without looking at the big picture of the scheme. i.e. comparing Wilson directly to Smith without understanding that the bigger Smith is one of the reasons they can play the run with the front 7 instead of always bringing a Safety down to help stop the run while lowering that Safety's effectiveness against the pass.

You brought the Wilson / Smith comparison. And I can’t do a 300 page dissertation covering every aspect of the defense in detail. You’ve got to restrict the conversation somewhere.

Why can’t Jaylon play Aldon’s role? That is what everyone thought was gonna happen and we’re excited about.

xwalker · Sep 25, 2020

DanA said:
I thought the great thing about this coaching staff was they’d fit the scheme to the players rather than the other way around.

Did we really need to trial Griffen/Lawrence in a 2 point stance. Is it a surprise that a highly complex defense is causing problem in this Covid season?

The bottom line is I think Nolan has given several ill-suited assignments to players and it’s limited pressure and not been effective in coverage.

Griffen obviously had the choice of hand down or stand up with the coaches asking him to try standing some of the time. This is based on his comments. It does not appeared that they forced him to stand up a certain percent of the time or anything like that.

The defense has not been that complex. It just appears that a couple of players are dumb dumbs.

Pressure was limited vs the Falcons because they were way up on the scoreboard for much of the game due to 5 turnovers by the offense and special teams.

xwalker · Sep 25, 2020

DanA said:
You brought the Wilson / Smith comparison. And I can’t do a 300 page dissertation covering every aspect of the defense in detail. You’ve got to restrict the conversation somewhere.

Why can’t Jaylon play Aldon’s role? That is what everyone thought was gonna happen and we’re excited about.

Why does Jaylon need to play that role?

They still need 2 off ball LBs. If Jaylon plays the Aldon Smith role then Justin March is a starter.

I prefer to divide snaps between Jaylon, Aldon Smith, DLaw and Griffen. If Jaylon plays the Aldon Smith role then that exact same total of snaps has to be divided by Justin March, Jaylon, Aldon Smith, DLaw and Griffen.

DanA · Sep 25, 2020

xwalker said:
Why does Jaylon need to play that role?

They still need 2 off ball LBs. If Jaylon plays the Aldon Smith role then Justin March is a starter.

I prefer to divide snaps between Jaylon, Aldon Smith, DLaw and Griffen. If Jaylon plays the Aldon Smith role then that exact same total of snaps has to be divided by Justin March, Jaylon, Aldon Smith, DLaw and Griffen.

I was thinking Luke Gifford or Francis Bernard rather than March who I see as ST only. And while I like the players you mentioned more I don’t like them more when you consider assignments.

I actually think we should have had another LB on the roster and was calling for it from right after the draft.

xwalker · Sep 25, 2020

DanA said:
I was thinking Luke Gifford or Francis Bernard rather than March who I see as ST only. And while I like the players you mentioned more I don’t like them more when you consider assignments.

I actually think we should have had another LB on the roster and was calling for it from right after the draft.

I just don't think you study the game footage.

DanA · Sep 25, 2020

xwalker said:
I just don't think you study the game footage.

Well nobody has the time to watch the game 30 times like you evidently do. This is a hobby, not my profession. I watched it more than once. The second time rewinding plays to figure out what was happening. That’s enough for me.

Majic · Sep 26, 2020

jrumann59 said:
Two different body types and players. Peppers was always the pass rusher, guys like peppers and ware con be good at both. DLaw does not have that bend.

I think going forward we need to draft players with versatility to play both techniques. Many teams would not have had D-Law so high on their board as we did. I think MM and MN both are aware of this.

Also partly explains why the market for EG was limited this off-season. Clowney had more suitors because of his versatility

Dak_Attack_09 · Sep 26, 2020

xwalker said:
DLaw made the tackle on the first 2 plays of the game. He probably would have been a step or two short if he had started with his hand down.

He would probably have sacks with his hands down. Nolan needs to change it up and adapt to players.

Parcells4Life · Sep 26, 2020

ConstantReboot said:
With a full year of training, OC and preseason. He was also used situationally.

None of our players have that or be in a position to be used in certain situations.

He also hated it at first. He got hurt and people thought he was done as a Cowboy with the injury and outward complaining then came back and balled out.

DuncanIso · Sep 26, 2020

DanA said:
I thought the great thing about this coaching staff was they’d fit the scheme to the players rather than the other way around.

Did we really need to trial Griffen/Lawrence in a 2 point stance. Is it a surprise that a highly complex defense is causing problem in this Covid season?

The bottom line is I think Nolan has given several ill-suited assignments to players and it’s limited pressure and not been effective in coverage.

Agree.

this isn’t working.

but who is surprised?

xwalker · Sep 26, 2020

Dak_Attack_09 said:
He would probably have sacks with his hands down. Nolan needs to change it up and adapt to players.

If Lawrence Taylor had played with his hand down maybe he would have been able to sack the QB.

DeMarcus Ware just wasted away standing up...

Dak_Attack_09 · Sep 26, 2020

xwalker said:
If Lawrence Taylor had played with his hand down maybe he would have been able to sack the QB.

DeMarcus Ware just wasted away standing up...

D-Law & Everson Griffen aren’t standup guys , but we don’t need force them to be when we have Aldon Smith & Anae. Use D-Law & Griffen more in 4-3 3-tech position to stop the run first. If you stop the run then you can play around with formation more for rushing the QB.

xwalker · Sep 26, 2020

DanA said:
Well nobody has the time to watch the game 30 times like you evidently do. This is a hobby, not my profession. I watched it more than once. The second time rewinding plays to figure out what was happening. That’s enough for me.

If you do then I'll take your word for it and I retract my comment.

As long as you are reviewing the games then I can respect that even if I disagree with your opinions.

It would be boring if everyone agreed with me.

I think you can see that many people are focused on the stand up, hand down issue just because it is an obvious change and easy to hypothesize that it must be the problem. Then other people just start repeating what they've heard and it becomes another overblown fan narrative like "Dak is not accurate" blah blah blah...

xwalker · Sep 26, 2020

Dak_Attack_09 said:
D-Law & Everson Griffen aren’t standup guys , but we don’t need force them to be when we have Aldon Smith & Anae. Use D-Law & Griffen more in 4-3 3-tech position to stop the run first. If you stop the run then you can play around with formation more for rushing the QB.

The reason for standing is primarily for run defense.

They played the majority of the game in a 4-2-5 with the DEs sometimes standing up and sometimes with their hand down.

Griffen played about half the snaps with his hand down and he said he decided when to try up vs down (i.e. The coaches were not forcing him).

DLaw stood up much more than Griffen in game 1 and the snaps he played in game 2. It appears that DLaw made the decision to stand up much more than than Griffen. DLaw has not made any comments to the public about the issue.

I think that Nolan really only needs 1 DE to stand up in the 4-2-5 and Aldon Smith is a stand up player.

The only real issue is when they play a 3-4 look. Nolan might want both outside players to stand up then. That should not be a significant issue because he uses the 3-4 as a run defense alignment and the pass rush opportunities will be very limited in that alignment anyway.

When Randy Gregory returns he is a perfect fit as a stand up player. Gregory is terrific athlete and playing in space a little more would be perfect for him.

DuncanIso · Sep 26, 2020

Why the DL rotation?

Play our best 4DL.

Are they that tired? Most drives avg 6.x plays.

We need our best 4 on every drive.

DuncanIso · Sep 26, 2020

xwalker said:
The reason for standing is primarily for run defense.

They played the majority of the game in a 4-2-5 with the DEs sometimes standing up and sometimes with their hand down.

Griffen played about half the snaps with his hand down and he said he decided when to try up vs down (i.e. The coaches were not forcing him).

DLaw stood up much more than Griffen in game 1 and the snaps he played in game 2. It appears that DLaw made the decision to stand up much more than than Griffen. DLaw has not made any comments to the public about the issue.

I think that Nolan really only needs 1 DE to stand up in the 4-2-5 and Aldon Smith is a stand up player.

The only real issue is when they play a 3-4 look. Nolan might want both outside players to stand up then. That should not be a significant issue because he uses the 3-4 as a run defense alignment and the pass rush opportunities will be very limited in that alignment anyway.

When Randy Gregory returns he is a perfect fit as a stand up player. Gregory is terrific athlete and playing in space a little more would be perfect for him.

Nolan’s “scheme” needs results in this game.

We are ranked around 25th in yds/scoring and headed the wrong direction.

xwalker · Sep 26, 2020

DuncanIso said:
Nolan’s “scheme” needs results in this game.

We are ranked around 25th in yds/scoring and headed the wrong direction.

Cowboys Defense vs Rams by Possession
TD
Turnover
FG
FG
TD
Turnover
P
P
P

Note: I list failed 4th down plays as turnovers.

gimmesix · Sep 27, 2020

xwalker said:
Aldon Smith is used differently than DLaw/Griffen on snap when they are standing up.

Smith has played real coverage snaps (man coverage on the FB (2nd and 7 in the 1st quarter) and carried him 20 yards down field.

Any coverage by DLaw/Griffen has been short zone drops which many 4-3 defenses do a few snaps per game with their DEs that start with their hand on the ground.

Finally, getting a chance to go back and watch the game concentrating on the alignment on defense (and Brandon Knight on offense), I can confirm at least from the first quarter that what you say here is correct.

So far, they've played four snaps in the Big 4-3 (Smith, Crawford, Poe, Hill, Griffen/Lawrence). Smith rushed the passer once, had coverage responsibilities twice and played the run like a linebacker once. And I've only gotten to the point in my review where Hayden Hurst was wide open for the touchdown.

We've mostly played nickel up to this point, so my eyeball test was off. I guess I'm just not a fan of that Big 4-3/3-4/5-2 alignment because A) it puts Crawford on the field at end over Griffen; B) now I see that it has Smith dropping in coverage instead of rushing the passer; and C) it hasn't been effective with pressure.

Floatyworm · Sep 27, 2020

The second I opened up this thread...I knew I would regret it... :laugh:

jblaze2004 · Sep 27, 2020

TJ Watt vs Taco Charlton pick really looks bad. TJ watt was a beast last year and off to a great start this year.
TJ Watt > Demarcus Lawrence. > turd on the field > Taco Charloton lol

I guess you can't win them all.

Cowboys Defensive Alignments

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