PFF Grades & Rankings After Week 5

AbeBeta said:

Crawford is a solid technical player who always carries out his assignments. He's on this team because every d coordinator knows he's gonna do his job and be in position

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Crawford is not really in position when he gets pushed back into the secondary.

KingintheNorth said:

Both catch your eye with quickness off the snap, but if you watch them all the way throughout the play, you see they have no idea what to do after that initial explosion.

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This just blows my mind. We've all played football in our backyards, on the high school team, college team, etc.. When the ball is snapped, you have two choices to make when playing D-line...kill the guy running the ball or kill the QB dropping back to pass. My 8-year old nephew knows this for goodness sake. And at some point, this team needs to stop feeding these guys analytics, crazy schemes, ect. and just tell them to go out there and play football like you've been doing since you were a kid. When ball is snapped, kill the guy who has it however you want to go about doing it. They're d-linemen and not physics majors.

thebigeasy88 said:

This just blows my mind. We've all played football in our backyards, on the high school team, college team, etc.. When the ball is snapped, you have two choices to make when playing D-line...kill the guy running the ball or kill the QB dropping back to pass. My 8-year old nephew knows this for goodness sake. And at some point, this team needs to stop feeding these guys analytics, crazy schemes, ect. and just tell them to go out there and play football like you've been doing since you were a kid. When ball is snapped, kill the guy who has it however you want to go about doing it. They're d-linemen and not physics majors.

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Exactly. At the end of the day as a d lineman you are in charge of a gap and have to have good discipline in attacking the ball. That's it.

rocyaice said:

Anyone who's seen Hill play this year as opposed to last year can see an improvement. Doesn't mean PFF is wrong.

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Anyone that watched these games and pretended they didn't see THill show unique and useful NFL skills is someone you can ignore as a fake scout.
So not surprisingly you can check their historical scouting type posts and they are pretty awful as a whole.

THill was often washed out of plays because he is no where near strong enough yet to anchor a 2 gap system as he has been asked to this year. He is not a 0 tech guy and likely never will be.
He's a quick tackle that has to win at the snap. And he showed he could do that 3-4 times a game this year. That's about 3-4 times more than any other Dallas Cowboy DT in 2020.
At the same time no one is pretending he's Aaron Donald.
He probably couldn't bull rush a TE.
But anyone can get in a world class gym and get stronger, VERY few can weigh 300+ with a lot of it fat and still be quick.

jterrell said:

Anyone that watched these games and pretended they didn't see THill show unique and useful NFL skills is someone you can ignore as a fake scout.
So not surprisingly you can check their historical scouting type posts and they are pretty awful as a whole.

THill was often washed out of plays because he is no where near strong enough yet to anchor a 2 gap system as he has been asked to this year. He is not a 0 tech guy and likely never will be.
He's a quick tackle that has to win at the snap. And he showed he could do that 3-4 times a game this year. That's about 3-4 times more than any other Dallas Cowboy DT in 2020.
At the same time no one is pretending he's Aaron Donald.
He probably couldn't bull rush a TE.
But anyone can get in a world class gym and get stronger, VERY few can weigh 300+ with a lot of it fat and still be quick.

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I agree. You think the strength will
Eventually come?

jterrell said:

Anyone that watched these games and pretended they didn't see THill show unique and useful NFL skills is someone you can ignore as a fake scout.
So not surprisingly you can check their historical scouting type posts and they are pretty awful as a whole.

THill was often washed out of plays because he is no where near strong enough yet to anchor a 2 gap system as he has been asked to this year. He is not a 0 tech guy and likely never will be.
He's a quick tackle that has to win at the snap. And he showed he could do that 3-4 times a game this year. That's about 3-4 times more than any other Dallas Cowboy DT in 2020.
At the same time no one is pretending he's Aaron Donald.
He probably couldn't bull rush a TE.
But anyone can get in a world class gym and get stronger, VERY few can weigh 300+ with a lot of it fat and still be quick.

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Good stuff.

I know one of the qualities I use to determine whether or not a player is any good is initially justifying why they get washed out of plays.

"Unique" skills.

Just really good stuff.

rocyaice said:

I agree. You think the strength will
Eventually come?

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Definitely.
I've never met a football player who was as strong as 22 and he was at 24.
As someone who lifted heavy weights most of my life I started as a string bean kid and eventually ended up more like a powerlifter.
It is much easier to gain strength than just about anything else.
Technique and speed are far more work with less proven results.

But any personal trainer can increase someone's strength in short order.
Conditioning and strength are the easiest areas to improve.
Especially if you choose 1 to the exclusion of the other. See Larry Allen.
I once saw Larry do cardio in Coppell and it was hilarious.
... but it wasn't hilarious when he bench pressed.

KingintheNorth said:

Good stuff.

I know one of the qualities I use to determine whether or not a player is any good is initially justifying why they get washed out of plays.

"Unique" skills.

Just really good stuff.

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If you are looking for possible models.
David Irving had .5 sacks as a 22 year old.
4 sacks at 23
7 sacks at 24

Jay Ratliff 1 sack at 24
4 at 25
3 at 26
then made the pro bowl 4 straight years.

This little known player named Randy White
started 1 game at 22
0 at 23
and then started every game thereafter for a decade.

Had THill went JUCO then to Bama and RS then played 2 years he'd likely have been a round mid-late 1 selection.
But instead he came out 2 years early and was a baby 21 year that was still fat playing mostly against bad comp.
He was probably about the 90-100 best player in that draft class but the shortage of DTs league-wide raise his value.
It is the Bill Parcells theory of unique humans and why he always took DTs very high in drafts but hated drafting WRs in round 1.

jterrell said:

If you are looking for possible models.
David Irving had .5 sacks as a 22 year old.
4 sacks at 23
7 sacks at 24

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Physical freak with off-field concerns that caused him to be suspended and thus, impacted his development.

jterrell said:

Jay Ratliff 1 sack at 24
4 at 25
3 at 26
then made the pro bowl 4 straight years.

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7th round draft pick. I think most people would have been fine with Trysten Hill being drafted in the 7th round.

jterrell said:

This little known player named Randy White
started 1 game at 22
0 at 23
and then started every game thereafter for a decade.

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Was initially a Linebacker but my guess is you knew that and tried to sneak it in anyway. Nice try though.

jterrell said:

Had THill went JUCO then to Bama and RS then played 2 years he'd likely have been a round mid-late 1 selection.

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Are you trying to say being at UCF hurt his value? Plenty of Golden Knights in the NFL.

jterrell said:

But instead he came out 2 years early and was a baby 21

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Which is the average age of most draft picks, especially athletes taken in the 1st three rounds.

I understand why you want Hill to be a good player, it validates your world view.

My issue is you trying to pretend he is a good player. He has not played well.

He did not work out well pre-draft. He was out of shape and would tap out of workouts. Marinelli would find these off-the-wall "qualities" in players to try to sell them as innovative or being ahead of the curve. Trysten Hill has shown the football world who he was at every step... benched as a junior for a team contending for a national title, out-of-shape for pre-draft workouts, signed promise to work hard with Marinelli, late to practice, fell asleep in meetings, barely played last year when team was desperate for DT play, played a lot this year and played poorly.

Marinelli tried to sell you all on Nick Hayden too. Marinelli is where he belongs. Not coordinating and not having heavy influence on player acquisitions.

Hill will be out of the league and a few years and all of the apologists here will chalk it up to sometimes draft picks don't work out. Everybody misses on draft picks, no problem with that logic. My issue with selecting Hill was the logic behind the pick, ignoring several red flags.

KingintheNorth said:

Physical freak with off-field concerns that caused him to be suspended and thus, impacted his development.


7th round draft pick. I think most people would have been fine with Trysten Hill being drafted in the 7th round.


Was initially a Linebacker but my guess is you knew that and tried to sneak it in anyway. Nice try though.


Are you trying to say being at UCF hurt his value? Plenty of Golden Knights in the NFL.


Which is the average age of most draft picks, especially athletes taken in the 1st three rounds.

I understand why you want Hill to be a good player, it validates your world view.

My issue is you trying to pretend he is a good player. He has not played well.

He did not work out well pre-draft. He was out of shape and would tap out of workouts. Marinelli would find these off-the-wall "qualities" in players to try to sell them as innovative or being ahead of the curve. Trysten Hill has shown the football world who he was at every step... benched as a junior for a team contending for a national title, out-of-shape for pre-draft workouts, signed promise to work hard with Marinelli, late to practice, fell asleep in meetings, barely played last year when team was desperate for DT play, played a lot this year and played poorly.

Marinelli tried to sell you all on Nick Hayden too. Marinelli is where he belongs. Not coordinating and not having heavy influence on player acquisitions.

Hill will be out of the league and a few years and all of the apologists here will chalk it up to sometimes draft picks don't work out. Everybody misses on draft picks, no problem with that logic. My issue with selecting Hill was the logic behind the pick, ignoring several red flags.

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I had no "world view" on THill. I saw very little of him in college and could not care less about him before drafted.
He was in exactly zero of my mocks or projections for Dallas.
Last year he played basically zero snaps and flashed quickness like twice... ever.
I wasn't ready to give up on him but hopes weren't exactly high.

But NO. 21 year olds aren't the average age of anything except when US kids can legally drink.
Round 1 where elite players come out early based off good underclassmen seasons is 22.3(decade from 2010-19) and that's DRAFT day not months later when they play.

In fact in round 1 of 2019(also the youngest round 1 of the decade) Trysten Hill would have been the 3rd youngest player.
After only Devin Bush and Brian Burns.
He wasn't just drafted at 21, he played(or sat) an entire rookie season at 21.

I could care less about Rod beyond thinking he is a good DL coach who really doesn't need to do more than that role
I simply don't judge 21 year old rookies off of year 1 because I am not stupid.
I don't know if Hill develops or not but only goofballs write off players this early.
Much of the Ring of Honor did nothing to write home about as a rookie.

jterrell said:

ound 1 where elite players come out early based off good underclassmen seasons is 22.3

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You are right, I as going off age drafted not the age when they actually begin to play.

KingintheNorth said:

Physical freak with off-field concerns that caused him to be suspended and thus, impacted his development.


7th round draft pick. I think most people would have been fine with Trysten Hill being drafted in the 7th round.


Was initially a Linebacker but my guess is you knew that and tried to sneak it in anyway. Nice try though.


Are you trying to say being at UCF hurt his value? Plenty of Golden Knights in the NFL.


Which is the average age of most draft picks, especially athletes taken in the 1st three rounds.

I understand why you want Hill to be a good player, it validates your world view.

My issue is you trying to pretend he is a good player. He has not played well.

He did not work out well pre-draft. He was out of shape and would tap out of workouts. Marinelli would find these off-the-wall "qualities" in players to try to sell them as innovative or being ahead of the curve. Trysten Hill has shown the football world who he was at every step... benched as a junior for a team contending for a national title, out-of-shape for pre-draft workouts, signed promise to work hard with Marinelli, late to practice, fell asleep in meetings, barely played last year when team was desperate for DT play, played a lot this year and played poorly.

Marinelli tried to sell you all on Nick Hayden too. Marinelli is where he belongs. Not coordinating and not having heavy influence on player acquisitions.

Hill will be out of the league and a few years and all of the apologists here will chalk it up to sometimes draft picks don't work out. Everybody misses on draft picks, no problem with that logic. My issue with selecting Hill was the logic behind the pick, ignoring several red flags.

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Talk that talk