Dalton is an upgrade over Dak eh?

leeblair said:

Yeah, and I bet you'd be one of the guys who walked off the field and didn't care that Dalton got cheap shotted.
But if it was Dak you'd be screaming for Bostic to be banned from the NFL.

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My god if you cared for Dak 1/100 as much as you care for Dalton.

When Dak got hurt...all you cared about was proving your little theory about what a "real QB" could do in Mike McCarthy's offense. You barely stopped to acknowledge your favorite team's QB...a guy who came in as a rookie not even promised a roster spot...and stepped in to save the 2016 season because of Romo's injury...who then stepped up as a second year QB to savage the 2017 Zeke suspension season...and who got your favorite team back to the playoffs in 2018...and last year and this year was doing everything possible to overcome his defense and coaching...

That is the guy you care little about.

But Dalton...WHO JUST WALKED IN THE DAMN DOOR (Although he did help save the Giants game after Dak went down), that is the QB you cry so passionately about.

Again, with you people it goes far deeper than you let on.

ABQCOWBOY said:

Yes, that is the problem so does it really make much sense to overspend on QB if you already know how the picture show turns out?

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It makes sense to keep our 1A 1B best player that keeps you in games no matter what. Its not our money, and paying him will stop anything the Defense needs, and not paying will not fix the defense.

thechosen1n2 said:

Bro...I am in full agreement. We definitely need a defense, but my point is we need both. The league has changed. There are no 2000 Ravens, 84 Bears, Whatever year Seattle defenses anymore. You cant play cornerback anymore, you cant hit anyone without 15 yard penalties. The top 5 defenses are giving up 20 to 24 points per game. Meaning your team has to score points to win....With Dak, Martin, Collins, Smith all due back....focus this draft strictly on defense and you go back at it. That is the quickest path. The following year, you start drafting trench guys for both sides. We have cooper and CD for the forseeable future. RB can be found.

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Do we though? I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not against signing Dak to a reasonable contract and that's like 35 with a real decent amount up front. I get that but I'm not all in on a short deal with record amounts of money because I just don't see how that helps us win. That helps Dak, for sure and I get it but not us. TBH, I'm much more in on getting a decent QB in here who can drive the bus and getting the ship right on the Defensive side of he ball, bringing in talent at OT and getting us back to some meat and potatoes Football that actually wins. I mean, when's the last time this team has won anything with an Offense that leads the league in passing etc? Hell, who's the last team in the NFC East who has done that and won a championship? I don't even know but I do know this, the teams who have won in the NFC East have been teams who are solid on both sides of the ball.

I got no agenda other then to win. I'm getting older now and I may not have too many more chances to watch this team celebrate a trophy season. I'm not in it for record setting passing teams or flash in the pan players or any of that stuff. I would like to see us win a Championship or two before I'm done.

All the rest is a bunch of noise to me. I could not care less about any of the other stuff. None of that crap is Football. All of that stuff is the crap that people bring into the game of football.

thechosen1n2 said:

It makes sense to keep our 1A 1B best player that keeps you in games no matter what. Its not our money, and paying him will stop anything the Defense needs, and not paying will not fix the defense.

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The idea that it's not our money is foolish. That's what people say who don't want to face the real life implications of the cap. That argument does not wash with me. Paying players on this team who are foundation type players over time absolutely effect other areas of the team. To say it won't is simply untrue. Not spending money wisely will abolutely hurt other areas of the team. Spending money wisely helps both all areas of the team.

I am a Dallas Cowboy fan. Being a avid supporter of this player and not that one is not my bag. If they're wearing the uniform, they have my support and nothing makes me happier when the player is killing it. Also, I imagine the vast majority of you spend time here because you love this team, too.

For me, that means:

• I don't care about being right, because internet/forum cat fights are the ultimate clown shhh
• Same with score-settling and calling out folks
  
• Coping with the same dysfunction, regardless of coaching - because any staff we bring on will eventually cave to the madness (or they were never equipped to begin with)
  
• Understanding that opinions are inconsequential and no one really cares
• The word "agenda" as used here is probably the ultimate LOL concept; these are thoughts, not action items

My hope was that Andy could pick up and at least keep this offense viable. Generally speaking, quarterbacks signed off the street in May are probably not coming close to matching the production of one of top performers at his position, who's been here and is intimate with the offense and personnel. The fact that Dak was able to navigate and put up points despite our OL woes is certainly a credit to him. I can't speak to the minority that didn't envision to dropoff. Not sure that I care. Does it matter?

Assuming we win the Giants game had Prescott not gone down, this team was still on a 6-win pace. The Cowboys were scoring points. To me, it just seemed the offense became dangerous once we found ourselves down 14 points, down 21 points. Going into the NY game, our average halftime deficit was 11 points! Of course the defense bears the brunt of that responsibility, though our offense continued to give the ball away at an alarming rate as well.

And then there's the special teams. That unit as bad it was in 2019, might have taken a step back. With the defense being awful on a historical level, with this offensive line and the onslaught of injuries, the ST seems to be flying under the radar of criticism. But they impact games, a lot.

All this to say: No one cares if you think Dalton was The Red Rifle savior or not. This team was bad in September. It's bad now, just not nearly as entertaining.

ABQCOWBOY said:

First of all, you don't know what the cap hit will be next year so stop right now with that. I listen to you on this nonsense once before and I'm not doing this again. You aren't going to throw up arbitrary numbers and act like they are real again. That's a waste of time and I'm not wasting more time on that. Beyond that, we don't officially know what the team cap is going to be next year. What we do know is that it will be less but how much less, we don't know. Rookies are not coming onto the Defense next year and making some kind of huge impact IMO. If we are getting better on that side of the ball next year, it's going to be through guys who are already here or guys who are brought in through FA. That's going to take money. Not signing Dak may or may not make sense but you have no way of knowing if it creates a whole or not. You don't know what we will do in the draft. We may try and go QB or we may make a trade or we may go out and sign a guy but either way, if the results from Dak are .500 or worse, as they have been over the last two seasons, what difference does it make?

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But the proposed rookie QB is going to come in and keep the offense scoring 33 ppg? We're going to get similar production out of rookie at the most difficult position in all of sports but we can't expect a top 5 pick on the dline to be able to come in and make an impact? Sure..

The only reason we don't know what Dak's cap hit is going to be next year is because he is not signed. The minute he is signed we will know and I would bet a couple of lemonades that it WON'T be as much as his cap hit was this year. No one is saying we can't go out and sign defenders in free agency AND draft playmakers .. like I keep saying.. starting over at QB adds to the list of problems .. why create more problems over and above what we already have? Because your ilk doesn't "like" Dak? The guy who was balling at a record rate over the first 4+ games this year? To hell with that.

thechosen1n2 said:

Bro...I am in full agreement. We definitely need a defense, but my point is we need both. The league has changed. There are no 2000 Ravens, 84 Bears, Whatever year Seattle defenses anymore. You cant play cornerback anymore, you cant hit anyone without 15 yard penalties. The top 5 defenses are giving up 20 to 24 points per game. Meaning your team has to score points to win....With Dak, Martin, Collins, Smith all due back....focus this draft strictly on defense and you go back at it. That is the quickest path. The following year, you start drafting trench guys for both sides. We have cooper and CD for the forseeable future. RB can be found.

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There aren't anymore of those until there are but so what, nobody is saying that this is what you need to be on Defense but you have to be solid. You have to be able to tackle, you have to be able to read keys, to get offenses off the field and to get pressure in critical situations. That's not even really asking that much out of a defense and for that, you need much better talent then we currently have. Teams have shown that you can put up 27 and win consistently without 40 mil QBs. You don't need that to score points or win games. But, if you are paying that kind of money to a QB or anybody, then that guy better be the guy who can get you wins when you need to score 38 consistently to win or he better be the guy who is holding everybody down to 14 points consistently and taking all the pressure off the Offense to score 24. He better be that guy and if he's not, then he's not worth the money. BTW, we don't have Cooper for much longer IMO. If you look at his contract, he's likely gone in another season. JMO

CATCH17 said:

In 2020 it's very rare to play defense at a high level. Most teams are garbage on defense.. It's very rare to see a team consistently play good defense.. You may see 3 or 4 years of great defense before the cap makes you start choosing players.

Keeping point totals low is about the best case scenario for the majority of NFL teams.

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Baltimore Ravens say different. And they are about to back up the brinks truck to their QBs front porch.

scottsp said:

I am a Dallas Cowboy fan. Being a avid supporter of this player and not that one is not my bag. If they're wearing the uniform, they have my support and nothing makes me happier when the player is killing it. Also, I imagine the vast majority of you spend time here because you love this team, too.

For me, that means:

• I don't care about being right, because internet/forum cat fights are the ultimate clown shhh
• Same with score-settling and calling out folks
  
• Coping with the same dysfunction, regardless of coaching - because any staff we bring on will eventually cave to the madness (or they were never equipped to begin with)
  
• Understanding that opinions are inconsequential and no one really cares
• The word "agenda" as used here is probably the ultimate LOL concept; these are thoughts, not action items

My hope was that Andy could pick up and at least keep this offense viable. Generally speaking, quarterbacks signed off the street in May are probably not coming close to matching the production of one of top performers at his position, that has been here and intimate with the offense and personnel. The fact that Dak was able to navigate and put up points despite our OL woes is certainly a credit to him. I can't speak to the minority that didn't envision to dropoff. Not sure that I care. Does it matter?

Assuming we win the Giants game had Prescott not gone down, this team was still on a 6-win pace. The Cowboys were scoring points. To me, it just seemed the offense became dangerous once we found ourselves down 14 points, down 21 points. Going into the NY game, our average halftime deficit was 11 points! Of course the defense bears the brunt of that responsibility, though our offense continued to give the ball away at an alarming rate as well.

And then there's the special teams. That unit as bad it was in 2019, might have taken a step back. With the defense being awful on a historical level, with this offensive line and the onslaught of injuries, the ST seem to be flying under the radar of criticism. But they impact games, a lot.

All this to say: No one cares if you think Dalton was The Red Rifle savior or not. This team was bad in September. It's bad now, just not nearly as entertaining.

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Please quit throwing out these fallacies like they're facts.. The offense averaged 15.4 points in the first half with Dak at the helm.

The halftime scores from the first 5 games

1 14-13 Cowboys +1
2 29-10 Falcons - 19
3 23-15 Seahawks - 8
4 31-14 Browns -17
5 24-20 Cowboys +4

The Cowboys were scoring in double digits in the first half of every game.. Only the titanic failure that is our defense can be credited with making 15 points look like "nothing." 15 ppg in the first half then 18 ppg in the second half. Doesn't really look all that different to me. Despite "waiting until we were down...." the Cowboys managed to lead two of the games at half and be down only one score in a third. Oh and they won the game where they had the biggest halftime deficit. Go figure.

RonnieT24 said:

But the proposed rookie QB is going to come in and keep the offense scoring 33 ppg? We're going to get similar production out of rookie at the most difficult position in all of sports but we can't expect a top 5 pick on the dline to be able to come in and make an impact? Sure..

The only reason we don't know what Dak's cap hit is going to be next year is because he is not signed. The minute he is signed we will know and I would bet a couple of lemonades that it WON'T be as much as his cap hit was this year. No one is saying we can't go out and sign defenders in free agency AND draft playmakers .. like I keep saying.. starting over at QB adds to the list of problems .. why create more problems over and above what we already have? Because your ilk doesn't "like" Dak? The guy who was balling at a record rate over the first 4+ games this year? To hell with that.

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Is the proposed Vet getting paid 40 per going to score 40 a game and allow the defense to give up 38 every contest? If you can't guarantee that, then you have no credible argument with that line of reasoning.

Who says the QB has to be a rookie? If it is, who says he starts next year? All of that is strawman stuff.

Saying his cap hit won't be as much as it is this year is like saying, I'll bet you money that tomorrow morning, the Sun comes up. Yes, we all can be pretty sure of that. But that doesn't mean that it's going to be a cap hit of 10 to 15 and it doesn't speak to what it might be in future years either. This is not just a one year thing. It's likely that the current cap strap situation goes on for 2 or 3 seasons in the NFL, before it corrects itself so you are talking about a large part of any contract term that gets signed. That's the reality here.

My "Ilk"? Yeah, sure thing. To hell with that and please, expedite that trip.

RonnieT24 said:

Please quit throwing out these fallacies like they're facts.. The offense averaged 15.4 points in the first half with Dak at the helm.

The halftime scores from the first 5 games

1 14-13 Cowboys +1
2 29-10 Falcons - 19
3 23-15 Seahawks - 8
4 31-14 Browns -17
5 24-20 Cowboys +4

The Cowboys were scoring in double digits in the first half of every game.. Only the titanic failure that is our defense can be credited with making 15 points look like "nothing." 15 ppg in the first half then 18 ppg in the second half. Doesn't really look all that different to me. Despite "waiting until we were down...." the Cowboys managed to lead two of the games at half and be down only one score in a third. Oh and they won the game where they had the biggest halftime deficit. Go figure.

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Yes, by all means, don't throw out false facts and act like they are the reality. For example, don't say that signing Dak will cost us 10 mil against the cap next year and save us 28, when we have no proof of that. That only clouds the discussion. I agree.

RonnieT24 said:

Please quit throwing out these fallacies like they're facts.. The offense averaged 15.4 points in the first half with Dak at the helm.

The halftime scores from the first 5 games

1 14-13 Cowboys +1
2 29-10 Falcons - 19
3 23-15 Seahawks - 8
4 31-14 Browns -17
5 24-20 Cowboys +4

The Cowboys were scoring in double digits in the first half of every game.. Only the titanic failure that is our defense can be credited with making 15 points look like "nothing." 15 ppg in the first half then 18 ppg in the second half. Doesn't really look all that different to me. Despite "waiting until we were down...." the Cowboys managed to lead two of the games at half and be down only one score in a third. Oh and they won the game where they had the biggest halftime deficit. Go figure.

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I don't recall stating anything other than going into the NY game, they were coming out of the locker room to begin the third quarter down 11 points. Don't know about you, but that seems a big problem to me. This wasn't getting better. Just be thankful the Falcons did what they do best and the Giants are... well, the Giants. You're welcome!

As for those arguments for offensive prowess, you can have them. Some of us enjoy fantasy football. But as football goes, this is not a winning brand which is why this team was heading for disaster. Again, I don't root for divisions of the roster. This would be a team sport and there are problems throughout.

scottsp said:

I don't recall stating anything other than going into the NY game, they were coming out of the locker room to begin the third quarter down 11 points. Don't know about you, but that seems a big problem to me. This wasn't getting better. Just be thankful the Falcons did what they do best and the Giants are... well, the Giants. You're welcome!

As for those arguments for offensive prowess, you can have them. Some of us enjoy fantasy football. But as football goes, this is not a winning brand which is why this team was heading for disaster. Again, I don't root for divisions of the roster. This would be a team sport and there are problems throughout.

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Yes there are problems throughout... but up until two Sundays ago, QB wasn't one of them. Losing Dak means it will be. I mean people were bending over backward telling us for two straight weeks that the dropoff between Dak and Dalton was going to be negligible if at all. Hell some even argued that it would be an upgrade.. Now those same people want us to believe that we can either just plug some rookie in Dak's place or sign ANOTHER bargain veteran and get what Dak was giving us. Fine if you want to believe that.. I don't. I can see with my own eyes that Dak had the offense putting up mega points and mega yards. This team may have been heading for disaster .. but there is simply no denying that if the defense held teams to what the Ratscums scored in all 5 of Dak's starts he would have been 4-1 when he got injured. Also if "coming out of the locker room down 11 points wasn't getting better" how would one characterize being up 4 points at half in the last game Dak played .. Is that not "better?" The fact of the matter is the Cowboys had scored on two straight 75 yard TD drives and were well on their way to a third at the point Dak went down. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say Dak had solved the Giants defense and was about to hang 50 on them. Nor is it a huge stretch to say watching the offense do that would inspire the defense.. or that without Dalton's fumble in the red zone the Giants don't get another TD that day. That kind of performance can spark a team.. And a performance like what Dalton has shown the last two weeks can have the opposite effect. The team is deflated and may well have quit. I am not blaming Dalton for that.. but it is what it is..

You don’t lose your entire Oline then expect your backup who hasn’t played a down in almost a year to have any success. Run game isn’t working, no play action and the D is pure garbage. Blaming Dalton is ridiculous considering the line is down every single starter!

CATCH17 said:

Yes yes yes.. Jimmy Johnson and I were wrong..

Now because we were wrong.. That means Dak is great...

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lol “me and jimmy johnson” might be the saddest cop out I’ve heard.

Proof said:

lol “me and jimmy johnson” might be the saddest cop out I’ve heard.

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It's true though.. I didn't just say Dalton would get Dak like results out of hate.

Dalton has been a good solid player throughout his career.

The mistake I made was the evaluation of those around Dalton.

I didn't take into account guys like Zeke and Gallup screwing games up..

I didn't take into account the 3rd string Left Tackle and Zack Martin being out causing the worst Oline performance in history.

I know though.. Dalton bad. Dak good.

Truth is we sucked with both.

Big_D said:

You don’t lose your entire Oline then expect your backup who hasn’t played a down in almost a year to have any success. Run game isn’t working, no play action and the D is pure garbage. Blaming Dalton is ridiculous considering the line is down every single starter!

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Blah blah blah. All I see is excuses. He started 13 games last year and was 2-11. He has been in this league about a decade now. He knows the game. He's trash. He has been trash and exposed once that defense he had in his early years was disbanded and he was paid more money to be their guy.

Dude has been hands down the worst starting QB in football this year. I don't want to hear any excuses for him. Dak played with a makeshift OL from week to week since the beginning and all I heard was people bashing him when he got our offense close to 40 every single game except one.

So I want this same energy from Dalton. We go from the offense we had with Dak to scoring 13pts in 2 games with Dalton. Absolute trash. He does not deserve to start another game. He's a bum. And all the people who claimed we would have no drop off and many even thought he would make this offense better is no back tracking to how bad of shape the offense is in. Lmao. Clowns.

Big_D said:

You don’t lose your entire Oline then expect your backup who hasn’t played a down in almost a year to have any success. Run game isn’t working, no play action and the D is pure garbage. Blaming Dalton is ridiculous considering the line is down every single starter!

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People were blaming Dak even when the offense was putting up damn near 40 points.. but now we can't blame the guy who replaced him for producing 1/5th as many points? By the way, the line is not down every starter. Williams is still hanging in there at LG.. though it's not like he's pancaking people. The main reason the run game isn't working is because teams are crowding the line of scrimmage and daring Dalton to make them drop out of it. This was especially true int he AZ game .. all 11 defenders were within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. They said all week that their goal was to make Dalton beat them.. The Rats did something similar. Needless to say it worked.

Big_D said:

You don’t lose your entire Oline then expect your backup who hasn’t played a down in almost a year to have any success. Run game isn’t working, no play action and the D is pure garbage. Blaming Dalton is ridiculous considering the line is down every single starter!

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You do on this board apparently but your post is 100% accurate IMO. Dalton is the backup for a reason. He's not the starter and he's not in a good situation. He is, in fact, playing under worse conditions then Dak IMO. But so what, this is the situation and it is what it is but, it should not be the reason we all suddenly fall in love with the idea of over paying. The results matter and even with better talent around him, we were unable to be successful with Dak. Now, people are immediately going to try and draw conclusion on this, based on that statement but they shouldn't. This is a Dollars and cents kinda thing to me. We are a lot further away then a lot of people expected us to be and that's something that we need to get our minds around. The biggest issue on this team, believe it or not, is not the QB. It's not a pass rusher or even a LB who can tackle or whatever else. It's longer term answer at LT. We have to address that right up front and immediately IMO. Now, that can be a draft pick but honestly, it's probably a Draft Pick and an FA for the short term. JMO.

RonnieT24 said:

LMAO!! Dalton laid a steamin turd for three quarters and it's OTHER guys' fault? Come on man.. even you don't believe that. Now it's some bro-mance conspiracy by the other players to get Dak his deal? So guys are out there playing like dawg-poo jeapordizing their own long-term earnings so Dak can get paid? This is beneath even the most staunch Dak-hater. I can't believe you even took the time to type that nonsense.

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LOL, with the exception of a couple of players this entire team has been laying steaming turds not just Dalton.