Do we even need a top 5 defense with Dak leading the offense?

ondaedg

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The Chiefs D is average. But they excel at getting takeaways and return TDs. As a matter of fact no team has had more non-offense TDs than the Chiefs in the last 5+ seasons at 28 compared to our 6.
 

Hawkeye0202

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I agree. You don’t need all blue chippers on defense, but you better have a dominant DL or you really have nothing. You have to be able to stop the run at will and keep the OL off your LBs. Other than DLaw, I cant remember a DL making plays in the backfield. Your defense has to be special at something, anything.

That's just it .......show me a top 10, maybe 15 defense that doesn't have at least one playmaker. What I mean is a DeWare type player you know you're getting high-level elite play every game.
 

nalam

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With Dak and a healthy offense having the capability to put up 37 points a game, could we be a contender with an average defense? Is Jerry capable? How many drafts would it take to improve the defense enough to make us a true contender?

with OL decline, yes if we need to win championships we need a top defense ( to win in the playoffs)
 

kskboys

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The Chiefs D is average. But they excel at getting takeaways and return TDs. As a matter of fact no team has had more non-offense TDs than the Chiefs in the last 5+ seasons at 28 compared to our 6.
Chiefs had the best D in the league for the last 6 games of last season, and won the super bowl due to a great D performance, especially from Chris Jones. This "average" D was the true MVP of the super bowl.
 

kskboys

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That's just it .......show me a top 10, maybe 15 defense that doesn't have at least one playmaker. What I mean is a DeWare type player you know you're getting high-level elite play every game.
Closest I can get is the Bills last year. D was 3rd, but their lack of playmakers killed them in the playoff vs the Texans.
 

Hawkeye0202

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Closest I can get is the Bills last year. D was 3rd, but their lack of playmakers killed them in the playoff vs the Texans.

Blue chippers/playmakers make players around them better......we simply don't have that on D.
 

ondaedg

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Chiefs had the best D in the league for the last 6 games of last season, and won the super bowl due to a great D performance, especially from Chris Jones. This "average" D was the true MVP of the super bowl.

I’m not saying they’re not good but quite the opposite. Teams can move the ball on them and they do. But the Chiefs make up for it with great takeaway abilities. And no team has more defensive TDs than the Chiefs over the last 5 years.
 

garyo1954

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It’s a different game nowadays so I think you can take all those numbers pre-2016 and toss ‘em out...

You're more than welcome to do that if you choose. Looking at another reference we find there are 5 teams from the 60s that are still among the top 50 scoring teams in NFL history. At #12 we have the 1967 Oakland Raiders who put up 33.4 PPG allowing 16.6 against while the 2019 Baltimore Ravens, last years PPG winner put up 33.2 and allowed 17.6.

The #23 '66 Cowboys put up more points per game than the 2018 NO Saints or the 2019 49ers, or the 2017 Rams, or the 2015 Cardinals, etc. There are teams from every decade still in the top 50 all time top scoring teams in NFL history.

If the game has changed, why isn't the top 50 filled with teams from 2015 forward? Rules have changed, more passing, but a team still has to put the ball in the end zone to score points. And teams are just not that incredibly better at doing that.

If you choose to limit what you consider relevant its your choice.
 

TruBluSince1982

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No I'd say above average. But this O'line needs some retooling as well for the above to be true.
 

Creeper

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No, we don't but if we had an average defense they wouldn't need to score 40 points a game and rack up 500 yards either.
 

Brax

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With Dak and a healthy offense having the capability to put up 37 points a game, could we be a contender with an average defense? Is Jerry capable? How many drafts would it take to improve the defense enough to make us a true contender?
Last year he had the 9th to 11th D so better than average and it was 8-8 with what now appears to be a better staff than this year. Dak will need a top 5 D and win against better teams which in recent history just isn't the case. Jerry isn't capable for 25 years what would make you think anything has changed, is it his great talent evaluation or his masterful contract negotiations.
 

glimmerman

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With Dak and a healthy offense having the capability to put up 37 points a game, could we be a contender with an average defense? Is Jerry capable? How many drafts would it take to improve the defense enough to make us a true contender?
Was set that way from the beginning. A descent Defense to start and having them improve as the season went on. I was really hoping we finally had a pass rush. But we couldn’t and can’t stop the run long enough to get into a lot of pass plays. Lol. When they run for 3 to 5 yards a play it’s easy.
 

AshyLarry06

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You're more than welcome to do that if you choose. Looking at another reference we find there are 5 teams from the 60s that are still among the top 50 scoring teams in NFL history. At #12 we have the 1967 Oakland Raiders who put up 33.4 PPG allowing 16.6 against while the 2019 Baltimore Ravens, last years PPG winner put up 33.2 and allowed 17.6.

The #23 '66 Cowboys put up more points per game than the 2018 NO Saints or the 2019 49ers, or the 2017 Rams, or the 2015 Cardinals, etc. There are teams from every decade still in the top 50 all time top scoring teams in NFL history.

If the game has changed, why isn't the top 50 filled with teams from 2015 forward? Rules have changed, more passing, but a team still has to put the ball in the end zone to score points. And teams are just not that incredibly better at doing that.

If you choose to limit what you consider relevant its your choice.

So you are saying that the game has not changed offensively?? I get that some of the statistics from those 1960's teams match up with current teams', but lets be real- the NFL from the '60's is not comparable at all whatsoever to the NFL of today. Passing has completely taken over the game and it has influenced and affected both sides of the ball to a massive degree.

Even if you just go back to the 90's, the game was so different in terms of the priorities on offense and of a Head Coach. The goal was to run the ball and play defense and throw the ball when needed. Teams lived out of I form and pro form, not the gun like todays NFL. Sorry, lets just agree to disagree.
 

zerofill

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No. You wouldn’t need a top 5. Honestly, you would need a middle of the pack defense but one that also forces turnovers.

that’s the true key.

if you have a top 5 offense and a defense that forces an average number of turnovers. You can win a Super Bowl.

Has there ever been defenses with the turnover numbers we have for this long of a period? lol
 

CowboyRoy

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Last year he had the 9th to 11th D so better than average and it was 8-8 with what now appears to be a better staff than this year. Dak will need a top 5 D and win against better teams which in recent history just isn't the case. Jerry isn't capable for 25 years what would make you think anything has changed, is it his great talent evaluation or his masterful contract negotiations.

A top 5 D would certainly help.

Last year our offense was more inconsistent as you so often pointed out yet still averaged 27 per game. THIS year the offense was tearing up the NFL to the tune of 37 points a game with Dak at the helm and breaking all time NFL records. And that was with a bad Oline as compared to an average one last year. The addition of Lamb and the maturation of Moore without Howdy Doody took it up another notch.

Now I am certainly assuming that Smith and Collins are healthy and playing next year and Biadasz becomes a quality starting center. Which would make our offense even better than it was THIS year. If that's possible.

So how good of a D do we really need? Im thinking if we can get into the top 10 and have some play makers on D, this team would be more than a handful.
 

garyo1954

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So you are saying that the game has not changed offensively?? I get that some of the statistics from those 1960's teams match up with current teams', but lets be real- the NFL from the '60's is not comparable at all whatsoever to the NFL of today. Passing has completely taken over the game and it has influenced and affected both sides of the ball to a massive degree.

Even if you just go back to the 90's, the game was so different in terms of the priorities on offense and of a Head Coach. The goal was to run the ball and play defense and throw the ball when needed. Teams lived out of I form and pro form, not the gun like todays NFL. Sorry, lets just agree to disagree.

If you didn't read my post, I said the game has changed, but not in the terms you want to use to edit the record books. So instead of trying to tell me what I'm trying to say you should consider what you are saying...let's REALLY be real

Jim Brown, Tony Dorsett, Gale Sayers were part of the NFL
Don Meredith threw passes to Bob Hayes
Mike Ditka was a TE and became HC who won the Super Bowl in 1985......

Now you........you...look in the mirror and ask yourself.....How do I want to tell these guys none of that happened? All that was before the magic 2015 year I chose for records to count from that point forward?

You want to call Terry Bradshaw and tell him he didn't win 4 SBs because nothing before 2015 counts?
You don't have the balls to tell an old man like Jim Brown, "Sorry sucker your records don't count!"
Hey Michael Irving who are you to think you have anything to tell the new guys who came after the magic 2015 year? You ain't done nothing in this league.
Dare ya to find him and tell him that to his face.
And call the Cowboy offices and Jerry he's nobody since he hasn't won a Super Bowl since the magic 2015 year.

That said, there are times when setting certain limits or situations, conditions, or criteria we DO omit, gloss over, or discount records or achievements that do not meet what we are looking for.
A good example is when I was challenged after saying QBs are better prepared to play in the NFL. If you take the time to look 18 starting QBs in the NFL this year have less than 5 years in the league. Unfortunately, winning a Super Bowl is winning a Super Bowl whether its I, or XX, XLVIII.

Maybe the problem with having history and records, and achievements is people pretend nothing happened before they were born.
But believe me, there was an NFL and some GREAT TEAMS and PLAYERS before you were born and before I was born.
Their records and achievements can't be thrown away just because we've changed terminology, rules, schemes, and whatever else you want to include.

Now I'm putting it all on your shoulder to go tell everybody who did anything before 2015 that their records do not count.
I'll patiently wait for ESPN, and Pro Football reference, and the NFL to comply with your request.

Oh, and "if you choose to accept this mission, Mr. Phelps," we will NOT be responsible for any hospital bills that may result from your insistence that you have the power to designate which records count and which do not. Good Luck Mr. Phelps!
 
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Brax

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A top 5 D would certainly help.

Last year our offense was more inconsistent as you so often pointed out yet still averaged 27 per game. THIS year the offense was tearing up the NFL to the tune of 37 points a game with Dak at the helm and breaking all time NFL records. And that was with a bad Oline as compared to an average one last year. The addition of Lamb and the maturation of Moore without Howdy Doody took it up another notch.

Now I am certainly assuming that Smith and Collins are healthy and playing next year and Biadasz becomes a quality starting center. Which would make our offense even better than it was THIS year. If that's possible.

So how good of a D do we really need? Im thinking if we can get into the top 10 and have some play makers on D, this team would be more than a handful.
Don’t disagree fully but still not sure about the O against top D but the DC D at this point is trash. Looks like this year is toast and hopefully it gets a lot better next year on both sides of the ball. It should be real interesting to see what Jerry does this off season and the draft position and if they get a new defensive coordinator
 
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