Derek Eagleton On Zeke/O-Line

TheMarathonContinues

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I’ve always said he was the best RB in the league in 2016 and yes, I see a clear difference in the runner.

I think you’re finally starting to get it! I’ve been dialing it back since 2017.

BTW, the link doesn’t work but I found it.
Aye.....I just gave Zeke a chance to prove what he is. He's not doing it. I never felt he was the best back in the league I just felt he was underrated in this league the first 3-4 years of his career. But this year is huge step back for me personally. Hard to really defend it other than this is probably what he is when he doesn't have a great line.
 

Stash

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Is there a back that can do anything in this offense though?

I'm not on him about what's happening going forward, I'm on him about what has happened. And how bad he, himself has already been. He wasn't good when the parts WERE in place. And now, not only isn't he able to 'carry' anyone else, he's not even able to carry the football and his own end of the bargain. Not only has NOT been an asset, he himself has been a liability.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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As good as we want to remember the 2016 draft (mainly because of Prescott), It was actually successful by accident.

The team could have drafted Ramsey there at #4 and Derrick Henry in the 2nd round, and Henry looks to be as good as he's ever been. Instead we have Elliott and Jaylon Smith, two poster boys for overpaid underachievers on this team.

And if left to our own devices, Jones and the Cowboys would have actually traded back into round one and taken Paxton Lynch! The horror!
Can't argue against it though knowing this franchise....Henry and Ramsey probably would've shared the same fate. I actually hate that draft personnel wise. I really couldn't argue for Zeke because he was running back but I really don't like Ramsey either. And being that they didn't want to pay Byron were they going to pay Ramsey? Probably who knows. We picked a bad year to suck. Bosa was the pick we needed but didn't suck good enough to get him.......I'm sure Garrett won a game he shouldn't have.....
 

TheMarathonContinues

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I'm not on him about what's happening going forward, I'm on him about what has happened. And how bad he, himself has already been. He wasn't good when the parts WERE in place. And now, not only isn't he able to 'carry' anyone else, he's not even able to carry the football and his own end of the bargain. Not only has NOT been an asset, he himself has been a liability.
I didn't think he was bad the first few weeks of the season...it wasn't what I'd expect for what we are paying him...my issues were mainly the fumbles. Now he's just not doing anything well. The fall off is so bad that it almost seems mental than it is physical. This guy didn't just forget how to play football.
 

StuckMojo

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Lol, so it’s SB or bust? By those standards, zeke is a scrub. Speaking of, CJ did make zeke look like a scrub in that playoff game.

I love how you use play calling stats to back up your claim.

So you equate volume to being the best? There’s plenty of other RB’s who had much worse O lines yet had the same or more ypc but because of the play calling or other offensive players on their team they didn’t get the ball as much or they would have won the meaningless rushing title, which is almost always a direct result of total carries which is a direct result of play calling. By that standard, Demarco Murray was a much better RB than zeke.

TD’s?! Bwahahahahaha...yeah, that makes you elite when your handed the ball at the two yard line. Again, most TD’s are nothing but a result of play calling. I guess if teams have players like Dez, Kittle, Witten, etc or other red zone threats and the ball gets spread around more than whoever their RB is should be “penalized” for not getting as many TD’s as some scrub they may bring in for plays on the 5 yard line. What game was it that Dak had two rushing TD’s from the 1-2 yard line and zeke had only one? I guess that means Dak is a better rusher.

He’s actually 9th in yards and 7th in attempts, if he was that good he should have more yards than attempts. Again, his yards are a direct result of his attempts and there are several RB’s with less attempts and more yards. His ypc average isn’t even top 10, where do you come up with this crap?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/stat/rushing/table/rushing/sort/rushingAttempts/dir/desc

One last question, remember the ~7 links to articles about zeke I posted for you? Did you read a single one? I noticed you never replied, do I need to post them again or do you just want to continue to ignore them like all his other fan boys?
CJ made the defense look like scrubs
 

basel90

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Get some leads in games and Zeke will shine as long as he doesn’t fumble..

If we’re constantly down 3 scores he has no chance.
that makes no sense at all. Good and elite RBs shine and make things happen . zeke is bad now on all fronts , strength, bad hands, fumbling , lack of burst and speed, and bad attitude. has been this way for 2 years now.
 

Runwildboys

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I didn't think he was bad the first few weeks of the season...it wasn't what I'd expect for what we are paying him...my issues were mainly the fumbles. Now he's just not doing anything well. The fall off is so bad that it almost seems mental than it is physical. This guy didn't just forget how to play football.
Jaylonitis.... It's going around.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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I’m not going to get too into Barry vs Barkley other than what I already said. Overall, no, I don’t think Barkley will ever be Barry unless he gets back to his rookie year stats and stays there for awhile which is highly unlikely. Had he stayed healthy this year and still put up great numbers I think it would have been a legitimate debate.

What year are you talking about Solder and Hernandez?
2018...whether Solder or Hernandez were struggling or not they at least have shown they can play in this league. We haven one on the line that has shown that.
 

Stash

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Can't argue against it though knowing this franchise....Henry and Ramsey probably would've shared the same fate. I actually hate that draft personnel wise. I really couldn't argue for Zeke because he was running back but I really don't like Ramsey either. And being that they didn't want to pay Byron were they going to pay Ramsey? Probably who knows. We picked a bad year to suck. Bosa was the pick we needed but didn't suck good enough to get him.......

They paid both of the guys they drafted (Elliott and Jaylon Smith), so I see no reason how or why they couldn't have paid the other two had they in fact drafted them.

I'm sure Garrett won a game he shouldn't have.....

That absolutely happened, with Matt Cassel in an unwatchable field-goal-fest between the Cowboys and then-Commanders on Monday Night Football. If not for that win, I think we're at least sitting with the #2 pick overall that year. Something else we have to 'thank' Garrett for.
 

RonnieT24

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How about the numbers you're willfully ignoring?



In six games, Elliott has fumbled five times, losing four.

Elliott's 101 rushing attempts places him sixth among all backs in the NFL. His three lost fumbles on rushes (not counting the one after a reception) equal the amount of the rest of the top ten combined.

Zeke lost just five fumbles in his first four seasons before this year's deluge. The four botches this season have led directly to 28 points for Cowboys' opponents.

Even outside the fumbles, Elliott is experiencing a career-worst in most metrics. The Pro Bowl back is averaging career lows in touches per game (22.2), scrimmage yards per game (102.8), yards per touch (4.6), carries per game (16.8), and rush yards per game (68.8). His 4.1 yards per carry mark is the second-lowest in his career to date.


Ummmmm.. he's having the worst year of his career. I'm pretty sure I have mentioned that on more than one occasion. Again you point out that these numbers are the worst of his career.. BFD.. None of that changes the numbers that I posted which rank in the top 10 in the league. Your screaming "no those numbers don't matter look at these numbers instead" does nothing for me. I already know his numbers are down.. I also know that with all of that he's still producing at a higher rate than most of the backs in the league..

Again Zeke's worst year of his career = top 10 in the league currently in multiple rushing categories..

When your worst year puts you in the top tier in the league that's the very definition of greatness. Especially when you factor in he's doing it behind one of the worst lines in the league. So worst line in the league yet top 10 in production.. Is this really that hard to computer? I'm not defending the fumbles.. that absolutely has to stop. I find it interesting that you decry "play calling stats" yet you lean on his touches and carries per game as proof of his decline? What are those two things if not "play calling?"
 

aria

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I already posted the categories wherein Zeke ranks in the top 10. Yards, carries, TDs, yards after contact and broken tackles. There is nothing you can post which can disprove any of them. No matter what "breakdowns" you post will change those numbers. Spin it how ever you like. The numbers are what they are and no amount of "well if you factor in blah blah blah" will change them one iota. Zeke has been good to great for the entirety of his career and this year while being "bad" he is among the league leaders in several major categories despite playing behind crap for a line.. Again.. if he's "bad" but still in the top 10 what does that say about the rest of these running backs most of whom are probably getting much better blocking than Zeke is..
So you don’t take into account play calling or ypc? Are you telling me that you think a RB who isn’t in some of the top ten categories you mentioned but has ~20 less carries and more total yards is worse than zeke?

What about yards per game? Don’t you think that tells a little more of the truth? Look how many guys have more ypg than zeke yet have less carries. They’re more efficient with the ball which translates to ypc but you would you would rather have a guy who is in the top ten of carries and total yards. Unbelievable.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/stat/rushing/table/rushing/sort/rushingYardsPerGame/dir/desc

Ever think that he has that broken tackles because he sucks at elusiveness and forced missed tackles so he’s getting more contact where other RB’s would be getting more yards?
 

Stash

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Ummmmm.. he's having the worst year of his career. I'm pretty sure I have mentioned that on more than one occasion. Again you point out that these numbers are the worst of his career.. BFD.. None of that changes the numbers that I posted which rank in the top 10 in the league. Your screaming "no those numbers don't matter look at these numbers instead" does nothing for me. I already know his numbers are down.. I also know that with all of that he's still producing at a higher rate than most of the backs in the league..

Again Zeke's worst year of his career = top 10 in the league currently in multiple rushing categories..

Which categories are they? Fumbles? Dropped passes? Share these 'Top 10 numbers' - other than fumbles.

And let's compare those numbers to his salary numbers as well. Let's truly look at the big picture here, and not just the parts we like.

When your worst year puts you in the top tier in the league that's the very definition of greatness. Especially when you factor in he's doing it behind one of the worst lines in the league. So worst line in the league yet top 10 in production.. Is this really that hard to computer? I'm not defending the fumbles.. that absolutely has to stop. I find it interesting that you decry "play calling stats" yet you lean on his touches and carries per game as proof of his decline? What are those two things if not "play calling?"

Production. And the clear lack thereof.

I'm sorry if you're a big Zeke fan and this bothers you, but he's having a terrible year, not stepping up to help the team when they need it, and not coming close to being worth his contract.
 

jay94

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Plenty of evidence states Zeke has been overrated from the beginning, and he had an elite line for a few of those years.
 

aria

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Ummmmm.. he's having the worst year of his career. I'm pretty sure I have mentioned that on more than one occasion. Again you point out that these numbers are the worst of his career.. BFD.. None of that changes the numbers that I posted which rank in the top 10 in the league. Your screaming "no those numbers don't matter look at these numbers instead" does nothing for me. I already know his numbers are down.. I also know that with all of that he's still producing at a higher rate than most of the backs in the league..

Again Zeke's worst year of his career = top 10 in the league currently in multiple rushing categories..

When your worst year puts you in the top tier in the league that's the very definition of greatness. Especially when you factor in he's doing it behind one of the worst lines in the league. So worst line in the league yet top 10 in production.. Is this really that hard to computer? I'm not defending the fumbles.. that absolutely has to stop. I find it interesting that you decry "play calling stats" yet you lean on his touches and carries per game as proof of his decline? What are those two things if not "play calling?"
Who the hell cares how many times he carries the ball?! I’d rather have a guy who carries it 30 times less but does a lot more with it when he has it. This is going to be tough but follow along.

Running back A gets the ball ~15 times a game and gets 100 yards
Running back B gets the ball ~25 times and gets 120 yards.

Which would you rather have? I already know, you want running back B because he will be in the top 10 in total yards, total carries and have more broken tackles because he is carrying the ball more. Makes total sense. You’re delusional dude.

And again...now you’re using the O line excuse but that same excuse didn’t apply to other RB’s 2016-2019, did it? BTW, did you miss my post about the O line run blocking rating? I didn’t realize 10th was worst in the league.
 

aria

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Aye.....I just gave Zeke a chance to prove what he is. He's not doing it. I never felt he was the best back in the league I just felt he was underrated in this league the first 3-4 years of his career. But this year is huge step back for me personally. Hard to really defend it other than this is probably what he is when he doesn't have a great line.
:clap:
 

aria

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CJ made the defense look like scrubs
I think it just proves what a difference a great O line makes. I think the better RB’s are the ones who are putting up similar stats behind bad O lines as the RB’s with great O lines (in most cases). There are several running backs who would have put up similar, if not better, numbers than zeke had they had the same amount of room to run and the same amount of carries. There are lots of RB’s that could hit a 10 ft wide hole who are faster and more elusive. zeke would have a huge hole, and run into a guy 5-10 yards downfield instead of making them miss for a potential several more yards.
 

LittleD

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Zeke is still a great player but he’s his own worst enemy right now and needs to get his head on straight

Zeke was alright before the suspension. Now he's got his second contract and all that money he turned into Mr. Hyde. Zeke is now the trash who put the Jesse James to Jerry.
 
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