The case for going for Lawrence

JJHLH1

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Out of curiosity, what do you base this on? I watched Dak at Miss St. Lawrence is light years better, then was Dak, at similar stages of careers. Same with Wentz or Trubisky.

Question, if you can't get Dak to sign, what is the option at QB?

Dak had the greatest rookie season at QB in NFL history on his way to winning Offensive Rookie of the Year in 2016, so any QB we draft no matter how highly touted will almost certainly be a downgrade early on.

Trevor Lawrence might develop into a solid NFL player. Or maybe he won’t. That’s the risk of the draft.

If we don’t resign Dak we can expect similar results to what we’ve seen since he went down, or what we experienced in 2015 before we drafted him.
 

phildadon86

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Out of curiosity, what do you base this on? I watched Dak at Miss St. Lawrence is light years better, then was Dak, at similar stages of careers. Same with Wentz or Trubisky.

Question, if you can't get Dak to sign, what is the option at QB?
Dak carried a pretty craptastic roster to the number 1 ranking in the country against real competition. TLaw is talented of course. But hes also as you say Dak needs to be . Surrounded by talent at Clemson and plays against ACC competition. Explain to me how Lawrence is lightyears better.

Not being funny. Trying to ask you a question.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Dak had the greatest rookie season at QB in NFL history on his way to winning Offensive Rookie of the Year in 2016, so any QB we draft no matter how highly touted will almost certainly be a downgrade early on.

Trevor Lawrence might develop into a solid NFL player. Or maybe he won’t. That’s the risk of the draft.

If we don’t resign Dak we can expect similar results to what we’ve seen since he went down, or what we experienced in 2015 before we drafted him.

OK, very debatable, in terms of greatest rookie season but so what? What does that have to do with anything?

What if we drafted a guy who came in and actually won a championship or even a Conference Title? That, to me, would certainly be a better season. However, because I do not want to stray from the topic overly much, I am not interested in what one Rookie Season means for any player drafted. I am more interested in the potential for an entire career.

Resigning Dak, at this point, likely means that we can't afford to fix the Defense and that we are locked into paying big money for Offensive players. It means that we continue to use the majority of our resources on the offensive side of the ball. That's not going to win titles and if you can't win the Super Bowl, what's the reason to play? For that matter, what is the reason I should tune in to watch or pay money to attend games or buy merchandise etc?

If the current design will not lead to ultimate success with a reasonable amount of expectancy, why on earth would you continue down such a path?

It is better to change direction and try another path in my view.
 

8FOR!3

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If you get #1 you take Trevor. #2 or lower, you trade down or don’t draft a QB. Just my opinion. You don’t pass on a QB prospect like Trevor Lawrence.
 

zerofill

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First off, let me say that I like Dak Prescott, I think he is a very good, not great, QB, and even the Dakaters have to notice the team with and without him which is exactly my point. The team needs someone better at that position unless you believe this team's management is capable of doing something they haven't done in decades, build a team around a QB.

They haven't done it with Prescott as well as his predecessor and even admitted that, failed to build around Romo. The fact that they lucked into both of these QB's should also be considered.

There are two questions regarding Trevor Lawrence, three if you consider why he doesn't become an English actor with that name. But the main two are is he better than what the Cowboys have now and what will it take to get him away from the two teams, JAX and NYJ, that have him in their sights?

Now, we must also consider the considerable team that Swinney has built around Lawrence, just as he did Watson. That must be taken into account when considering Fields as well.

But for the sake of argument and this thread, Lawrence is a better QB now than Prescott has developed into and he has nothing but upside. He is the first QB since P. Manning to deliver on being the most highly recruited QB in his class. If you don't agree with this, then this thread doesn't make sense to you but I have watched a lot of Lawrence play the position and consider him the real deal.

The second question is a tough one because if the Cowboys do not end up with the 1st pick, trading up for it will be very expensive in draft capital. If that can even be done. JAX ends up with that and they'd have a hard time passing on Lawrence since he's played in the neighborhood and if they're in that position, we'll see the same response as we saw from the CIN fans when the season became all about Burrow.

OK, you can let me have it now but I just don't think Prescott is good enough to lift this team beyond a mid level team. They ranked #1 in offense and we're 8-8 and what did they look like this season with Prescott at the helm? Is it a risk? Absolutely, but isn't giving Prescott a 4 or 5 X 35-40M a year even a bigger risk when you consider who the team builders are?

This is not about Dak Prescott, I think there are teams he could take to the Big Dance. This is about trying to overcome what's been holding this team back for two and half decades, management.

And if you want to consider something else, this HC had one of the best QB's in the history of the NFL and the most accurate one I have ever seen and he could only get one ring and ended up canned and that team doing better without him.

McC has this rep as a QB guru but who wouldn't with those QB's? The better the QB, the better the guru.

All comes down to one simple question. Do you want more of the same or do you want to take a chance? This is about change but what needs to be changed, management, will not so what's the next best thing?

When you refer to bad management... That is exactly the reason why they probably wouldn't try for a QB, or even do anything worthwhile about this defense.
They continually ignore free agency, and keep betting on just the draft.
 

Proof

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There are a couple of things that I always think about with regards to seasons.

1:
Football is a game of attrition.

2:
The way Belichick has a steady state approach knowing that they won't win every season because sometimes things just don't work out. Usually injuries. Some years the Pats didn't win the SB but they maintained the steady approach and won more often everybody else by a big margin.

Belichick was always more likely to trade away an All Pro than to give up picks to trade for one or to massively overpay for one.

Fans want the opposite approach but the make a big trade for a player or the go big in free agency approach fails more often than not.


Good stuff. Is it in response to me though, or just thoughts. Because I didn’t advocate trading or signing big name players.
 

CouchCoach

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Dak had the greatest rookie season at QB in NFL history on his way to winning Offensive Rookie of the Year in 2016, so any QB we draft no matter how highly touted will almost certainly be a downgrade early on.

Trevor Lawrence might develop into a solid NFL player. Or maybe he won’t. That’s the risk of the draft.

If we don’t resign Dak we can expect similar results to what we’ve seen since he went down, or what we experienced in 2015 before we drafted him.
Rothliesberger took his team to the SB as a rookie because of the team he went to and that's the same with Prescott. He didn't go as a top 10 pick which means they're usually going to bad teams like Mayfield, Murray, Burrow, Herbert and Tua did.

And that's nothing against Prescott but he had an established OL, receivers and top RB. The Cowboys spent that pick on the RB that team usually spends on QB's. But he has made the most out of his pro career and as a QB, he is very good. As a passer, he still leaves a little to be desired and these young guns are all better passers now than he is now.
 

khiladi

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He's played 4+ years in the NFL and has played better than QBs drafted in the 1st round.

so what? Ryan Leaf was drafted in the first round and so many QBs player better than him. Dak also walked into the best OL in the league and the best RG in the league and sucked when Zeke was suspended and Cooper wasn’t here..
 

khiladi

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He had no offensive line whatsoever his senior year, you aren’t winning football games if you can’t block. I’m on facts.

But he threw for 66%, 29 TDs and only 5 INTs, while going 9-4, 1 less win then the year prior. And on his best year, they choked away 3 of the last four games. And the ‘ranked teams’ he beat at the time he was supposedly all world all ended up going 8-5, meaning pretenders.

So it’s everybody else’s fault but the garbage-time star padder... just like in Dallas...
 
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RonnieT24

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Rothliesberger took his team to the SB as a rookie because of the team he went to and that's the same with Prescott. He didn't go as a top 10 pick which means they're usually going to bad teams like Mayfield, Murray, Burrow, Herbert and Tua did.

And that's nothing against Prescott but he had an established OL, receivers and top RB. The Cowboys spent that pick on the RB that team usually spends on QB's. But he has made the most out of his pro career and as a QB, he is very good. As a passer, he still leaves a little to be desired and these young guns are all better passers now than he is now.

Uh no he didn't.. Ruthlessraper's Steelers lost in the to the Pats in the playoffs his rookie season 2004. Again this is all information that is readily available on the internet.. so I will never understand why people continually post falsehoods so authoritatively.

As for all these youngsters being better passers than he is.. Based on what? Was this the same criteria people used to tell us that Dalton was a better passer? I'm sorry but Dak completing 68% of his passes against NFL defenses carries waaaaay more weight than some kid completing a similar rate against the ACC. You detractors keep trotting out the same tired tropes about "accuracy" and "so and so is a better passer" yet the numbers say you're all lying.. I would say wrong but if you can read the numbers and still spout the same untruths over and over then you're not wrong.. you're lying. In some alternate reality we are supposed to ignore the play on the field and the numbers and resort to "the eye test." Whatever that means.. All I know is that when I look at the current crop of "young guns" their completion percentages are:

Herbert: 67.3% on 8.0 yards per attempt
Borrow: 67;0% on 6.9 yards per attempt
Goff: 65.5% on 7.6 per attempt
Jones: 62.4% on 6.1 per
Mayfield: 61.4% on 6.8

Meanwhile Dak was sitting at 68.0% on 8.4 yards per attempt before being injured.

So he has a higher completion percentage for more yards per attempt than all of them. Ironically the only one of the recent crop completing a higher percentage than Dak is Murray.. who is completing 68.1% for 7.6 yards per attempt. And I guarantee you a lot of the same anti-Dak crowd will claim he's inadequate as a passer too.

So completing more.. for more yards per attempt yet Dak is not as good a passer as these other guys..

I didn't even bother with Wentz.. we know his numbers suck.. but we've been told for 5 years now that he also is a better passer than Dak.. At some point you would think this stupid narrative would die down.. But it won't until Dak is no longer our QB.. I get it.. Dak was also putting up over 100 yards more per game than most of these guys. And more points per game than ALL of them. But let's ignore all of that.. The experts on the Zone say all those guys are better passers.. so let it be written.. so let it be done..
 

ultron

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But he threw for 66%, 29 TDs and only 5 INTs, while going 9-4, 1 less win then the year prior. And on his best year, they choked away 3 of the last four games. And the ‘ranked teams’ he beat at the time he was supposedly all world all ended up going 8-5, meaning pretenders.

So it’s everybody else’s fault but the garbage-time star padder... just like in Dallas...
Just so I’m understanding this correctly, you’re saying that Dak Prescott is simply a ‘garbage time stat padder’?
 

TwoDeep3

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First off, let me say that I like Dak Prescott, I think he is a very good, not great, QB, and even the Dakaters have to notice the team with and without him which is exactly my point. The team needs someone better at that position unless you believe this team's management is capable of doing something they haven't done in decades, build a team around a QB.

They haven't done it with Prescott as well as his predecessor and even admitted that, failed to build around Romo. The fact that they lucked into both of these QB's should also be considered.

There are two questions regarding Trevor Lawrence, three if you consider why he doesn't become an English actor with that name. But the main two are is he better than what the Cowboys have now and what will it take to get him away from the two teams, JAX and NYJ, that have him in their sights?

Now, we must also consider the considerable team that Swinney has built around Lawrence, just as he did Watson. That must be taken into account when considering Fields as well.

But for the sake of argument and this thread, Lawrence is a better QB now than Prescott has developed into and he has nothing but upside. He is the first QB since P. Manning to deliver on being the most highly recruited QB in his class. If you don't agree with this, then this thread doesn't make sense to you but I have watched a lot of Lawrence play the position and consider him the real deal.

The second question is a tough one because if the Cowboys do not end up with the 1st pick, trading up for it will be very expensive in draft capital. If that can even be done. JAX ends up with that and they'd have a hard time passing on Lawrence since he's played in the neighborhood and if they're in that position, we'll see the same response as we saw from the CIN fans when the season became all about Burrow.

OK, you can let me have it now but I just don't think Prescott is good enough to lift this team beyond a mid level team. They ranked #1 in offense and we're 8-8 and what did they look like this season with Prescott at the helm? Is it a risk? Absolutely, but isn't giving Prescott a 4 or 5 X 35-40M a year even a bigger risk when you consider who the team builders are?

This is not about Dak Prescott, I think there are teams he could take to the Big Dance. This is about trying to overcome what's been holding this team back for two and half decades, management.

And if you want to consider something else, this HC had one of the best QB's in the history of the NFL and the most accurate one I have ever seen and he could only get one ring and ended up canned and that team doing better without him.

McC has this rep as a QB guru but who wouldn't with those QB's? The better the QB, the better the guru.

All comes down to one simple question. Do you want more of the same or do you want to take a chance? This is about change but what needs to be changed, management, will not so what's the next best thing?


I see the sense of taking a kid like this. Just the initial money leans toward Lawrence. Yet factor in this, both Dak and Lawrence are unknowns at this point. Dak's psyche and ability to play up to his level before the injury is a real unknown. Lawrence's possibility of being a bust has to be considered. And no matter how much anyone on this board has watched him, I need only suggest Wentz. There are no guarantees moving from one level to another. Further he could be nothing more than a QB cut from the same branch as Dak. That branch being in your mind that Dak cannot elevate the team to a championship.

But the dichotomy of your argument about Dak, Coach, is this.

The franchise has shown they cannot build a team around Dak. Dak has lead the number one offense, yet is 8-8.

Now let that sink in.

The franchise put an offense around Dak to be the best in the league. So your theory is only half right. This franchise has shown a propensity to fail at building a defense. But surely this franchise has built a team around Dak on the offensive side of the ball.

You mention the franchise has whiffed on this twice with the last two QB's. Which is true.

But then the 8-8 is solely Dak's responsibility, as if he needs to maybe step it up and play some corner or linebacker. This argument was never leveled at Romo. It was always the defense. Yet Dak puts up huge numbers and the defense cannot hold any lead ever.

But then it becomes crunch time and Dak tosses a pick and the board here goes nuts.

There are a list of critical games in the history of Romo when this EXACT scenario played out. Leads were going back and forth and when the championship drive at the end of the game arrived, Romo would throw a pick. And this board would be damned if they would admit it was a poor decision/throw by Romo, and it was always the defense that lost the game.

In both cases - Dak and Romo - the defenses were losing the lead and when both of these guys were forced to pull a win out of their butts at the most critical time, they did not.

My point is this. Maybe all these Great Unwashed here are wrong about Dak. Because the playing field surely is not level here. Romo could be inaccurate in games, as well as dropping dimes.

But having said that, the smart money would draft Lawrence, or Fields (who may be a younger Dak) and use the extra money they do not have to pay a veteran to build the OL and defense. Along with a top pick in each round of the draft.

But there is not a scenario where Dallas gives away the farm to move to the number one over-all and not repeat this same mistake they have done now with two QB's in a row. Because giving up premium draft picks limits what you can do for the Offensive Line and the defense as a whole.
 

stiletto

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We need to be tanking for top picks on the defensive side of the ball...ALL DAY. (maybe a Olineman,but that's it on O)...
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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OK, very debatable, in terms of greatest rookie season but so what? What does that have to do with anything?

What if we drafted a guy who came in and actually won a championship or even a Conference Title? That, to me, would certainly be a better season. However, because I do not want to stray from the topic overly much, I am not interested in what one Rookie Season means for any player drafted. I am more interested in the potential for an entire career.

Resigning Dak, at this point, likely means that we can't afford to fix the Defense and that we are locked into paying big money for Offensive players. It means that we continue to use the majority of our resources on the offensive side of the ball. That's not going to win titles and if you can't win the Super Bowl, what's the reason to play? For that matter, what is the reason I should tune in to watch or pay money to attend games or buy merchandise etc?

If the current design will not lead to ultimate success with a reasonable amount of expectancy, why on earth would you continue down such a path?

It is better to change direction and try another path in my view.
why can't we afford to fix the defense if we resign Dak? that's such a losing argument at this point.
 

gjkoeppen

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Good question, history and laundry. I am not the fan I once was, don't have that passion for the game or this franchise. I have accepted the fact of what they are and how they're run but I still don't have to like it. But thanks for the suggestion I seek my happiness with another team.

As far as nicknames, I do that a lot and before he was Booger, he was Ole Sphincter Face, which do you think he'd prefer? He's an awesome person and I don't like him, I've not hidden that but Murchison wasn't a prince either, but he didn't try and hog the spotlight. Hen wants to be a celebrity, comes with the territory.

And I am not digging at Prescott, under normal circumstances with people who actually know how to build a proper team, he would be fine. Just like Romo could have been fine and you're right, I had this same problem during the Romo years because this problem existed during the Romo years, this very same problem, building a team around a QB. If they can't build a team around the QB, they need a better QB. I have evidence that they can't build a team, irrefutable evidence.




At one time you may have been a big Cowboys fan I don't know I've never seen anything from you that proves that so again I'll say that since you have such a hatred for Jones and what he does and doesn't do and he isn't going anywhere any time soon, in the long run you will probably be much happier if you just find a different team to be a fan of.
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G2

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so what? Ryan Leaf was drafted in the first round and so many QBs player better than him. Dak also walked into the best OL in the league and the best RG in the league and sucked when Zeke was suspended and Cooper wasn’t here..
Yeah, no. That's beyond empty hatred dude. Just stop it. He led the offense to a No. 1 ranking this season with scraps on the O line. Now what?
And your Ryan Leaf point actually supports my point. Thanks!
 

jnday

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I see both sides. The problem with drafting a QB is that, in order to get the best one, we'll have to give up picks and/or players to get him. Still, there are no guarantees his college skills will translate to the pros. How many times have we seen that? Then there's the fact that this defense clearly isn't good enough, and after giving up draft picks and/or players, it's very unlikely the defense will improve. We also need to booster the O-line some.
By the time we build both sides of the roster, it'll be time to pay this QB we drafted, assuming he's worth keeping.

On the other hand, Dak will be expensive to keep, but at least we have a good idea of who he is. There must be some draft picks that'll improve our defense over what it is now, so I think we're probably better off with Dak, but it's not an easy choice.
There is no way of knowing if it will take more picks at this point in the season. Dallas may lose everything game and the Jets night win two or three.
To each his own to how those feel with Dak vs Trevor Lawrence or any other top 5 to 10 overall QB
but I’ve seen dak develop as a pure passer, elevated his team among the very top upper offensive teams, being No. 1 overall offense in the NFL is a helluva accomplishment – and basically we’ve reached that plateu two years in a row before Dak went down, I’ve seen Dak vastly improve enough to where he is carrying this team as a passer. Not a bus driver. Not a dink-dunk ball control

As the surrounding coaching improved ,.. as the player personnel improved Cooper, Gallup, Lamb, Jarwin, etc. Dak is among the top passers in the game.
It’s the other aspects of the team -ala the defense- that has been a failing that hinders the team.
That’s forced Dak to get into scoring shoot outs this year. And who would ever think we’d be talking
Stephen Jones is giving this team a new dynamic when it comes to free agency approach and it’s gone both ways in plus and minuses – the Dak FA situation has ended up being a minus thus far.

Aside from Kirk Cousin with Wash. – NFL teams managed to re-sign their cornerstone franchise QBs to mega deals.
ATL matt ryan
Philly Wentz
Goff – Rams
Wilson Seattle
Watson – Houston

I believe Cleveland did not have the first overall pick but they did trade the No.2 overall to Philly to get the rights to Carlson Wentz.
I’ve heard several hypothetically say they would do a similar trade with swapping 1st rd picks …..receiving a 3rd rd in 2016 …..1st and 2nd rd in 2017, ….. nope not me.
I would want Three No.1 picks in consecutive years, ..a 1st rd and 2nd rd in 2021,.. An 1st rd and 4th rd in 2022.. and an first rounder in 2023.
If all you ask is two first rounders, while swapping 1st rounders, all you’re basically getting back is one first rounder.
Dak’s stats have not translated to wins. The better his stats, the less wins. So much of his stats have been in garbage time and meaningless. The salary cap is going to be less and Dak will want more. The track record for QBs reaching the Super Bowl after signing those big contracts is not good.
 

Trajan

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With Jerruh, I think it comes down to money in the end.

Draft a top QB, pay them maybe $9mil a year for 4 years, sell more jerseys with a different number on it, and hype up the new kid....Or...Pay Dak +$35mil a year for 4 years......

Dak is better then any prospect. Sure, Lawrence, or Fields (who I really like) could be better in a couple of years, but not year one.

Personally, I would like to see a lost season where we cut these over-priced Vets who are playing poorly, and reload, but again, I doubt Jerruh will eat their salaries.

So, in the end, think we sign Dak, keep all the other dead weight (Jaylon, Zeke, etc) and prepare ourselves for a few more years of average to above-average.
 
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