Things Change

dsturgeon

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According to you,“All those Superbowls were Brady”. You don’t know football, at all, from a coaching stand point. Many people who have played football, but never coached, have no clue how important coaching is. Great coaches can consistently put you in better position to do your job! If you want to win in the NFL you need very good to great coaching because the talent level is so even throughout the league. Players matter, but no one player, even a QB, is near as important to the success of a FOOTBALL TEAM as a great HC.
When Belicheat’s TEAM beat the Rams in the Super Bowl his above average D dominated the top ranked Rams O because of Belicheat’s outstanding game plan. Brady made 2-3 plays the whole game.

I know his defense won him some superbowls, and I am not saying coaching is not important.

I am saying a good coach doesn't get you to a superbowl.

Look at andy reid. All those great teams and plays he had for all those years, and it took mahomes. You can say that kelce and the fastest skilled position group gets credit too, but if not for all those plays mahomes made, are they even in the superbowl.

Once again, if the patriots do not get to the superbowl in the next 10 years, and only have 1 playoff game appearance, are bill and management still a top notch organization
 

pitt33

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I don't know how anyone who follows this team closely enough to post thousands of messages here still can't see what drives Jerry Jones.
He isnt making the decisions he makes for more profit. It's not about sizzle or hollywood.

This is an old man who lives with this thought that Jimmy Johnson gets credit for our success in the 90's. It haunts him. He will never turn this over to someone else because winning isnt winning for Jerry unless Jerry gets the validation and credit for being the brilliant football mind. Outside of Parcells every coach he hires is a marshmallow yes man who is willing to play coach for Jerry's team.
Jerry didn't buy the Cowboys as an investment only. He bought himself a job as a GM. That wont change. It's kind of a sad story if you really think about it.
This might be your best post...

Finally...someone who sees Jerry for what he truly is/wants. Jerry really does appear haunted by the Cowboys past success that doesn’t view him as the chief architect.

And the other sad part of this is it’s not getting any better.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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My point is that it doesn't matter if you are a well run organization. The likelihood of getting to the superbowl is slim, and doing it repeatedly is very slim.

6th round Tom Brady going in for an injured Bledsoe, and becoming the greatest pick in sports history, I just don't buy that being a credit to the organization

If the patriots don't make it to the superbowl in the next 10 years, and they win 1 playoff game, are bellicheck and the owner still a great organization, or was Brady the golden goose?

My point is that it is a credit to the organization. If you know anything about how the Pats made that pick, you would perhaps agree. At the time, the Patriots were one of the first organizations to focus on a players psychological make up, more so then physical capabilities, in order to figure out which available QB best fit the team. Brady was the one QB who fit best and because of that, they took him in the 6th. That hasn't changed a great deal in that organization and to be honest, playing QB has gotten easier, not harder, in the NFL. I mean, we got an undrafted FA QB as our franchise QB. We took a 4th round guy who is not our starter. We took a round 3 guy in 74 and he eventually became our starter. We took a 10th round pick in 64 and he was the greatest QB we ever had. The times this Franchise has gone without great QBs is really small, in comparison to many other teams. It can definitely happen if you understand what you are doing and manage the situation correctly. I see no reason the Pats can't duplicate success and find another QB.
 

Redball Express

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You can say that about any team that has built a new stadium in the last 5-10 years. They've all tried to 1-up Jerry to get that Hosting Super Bowl mark.
Yeah..guilty as charged.

My point being that Jerrah while creative..

he clearly gets caught short sighted.

GM of this Franchise is just another set of initials.

It's not his most important job..just one of many.

And to the fans we can not and never have understood him. We idolize football and being the best we want the team to reflect who we think we are.

For Jerrah it is just an income flow. Investments rise and fall. You think long term and blips do not bother you.

It's just such a difference b/w the two..the fans and the owner.
 

Frosty

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You must actively suck on all levels to accomplish such a feat. Jerry is possibly the worst GM in NFL history if you just take the past 20 years into account.

I still think Al Davis was the worse. But Jerry is nothing but a modern day Al Davis.
 

garyo1954

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Brady did do that later in his career, but not earlier in his career. It's always easier to give discounts after a boatload of money is already in the bank.

Don't agree with you on that.....

"For the past 19 years, Brady has taken the hometown discount with the Patriots, getting paid much less than the league average in order to allow New England to sign talented playmakers, which, as a result, has helped the team succeed so frequently over the past two decades. While doing that has been a very selfless act by the future Hall of Fame QB, it looks like Brady won't be taking the same approach going forward."

https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/gm-report/brady-wont-take-hometown-discount
 

BourbonBalz

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Tom Brady took hometown discounts to get good players around him. Something the Glitz and Glamour boys won't do.
That’s true, but he had the good fortune of having a supermodel wife that made more money than he did. That made it easy to take less money.
 

DallasEast

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I think it morphed into this. There was an interview with Jimmy early on, where he said Jerry was very worried about the $ side of it, he was, it appeared, driven by the $ to recoup his investment and become financially stable.

I agree that once his investment was made whole, and the $ started to flow, Jerry became more concerned with the "perception" that he wants to be seen as a "football guy", and was the brains behind the 90's SB wins.

Sadly for Jerry, and more so we fans, he was not the brains behind the 90's teams, and we have +25 years of performance to validate the idea Jimmy should get the credit for the Super Bowl teams. Until Jerry is gone, we are on the road to mediocrity.
I agree Jones always had the goal to maximize the profitability of his investment but disagree that his primary motivation changed about core football management. There are two opinions I think apply:

  • an individual's core personality traits do not change significantly over time
  • the sum total or any sports franchise is much more than management of its coaches and players
Jones experienced success in business during his younger days but also suffered business losses. His business failures DO (I believe) drive him to not repeat them by aggressively seeking the most optimal profitability outcomes FROM a business. In regards to his franchise, Jones has long demonstrated fanatical tenacity in maximizing profits through concessions, ticket sales, personal seat licenses, corporate sponsorships, marketing, etc. In short, Jones has learned how to make money and lots of it.

This business aspect of Jones for his franchise are not easily distinguishable from his tyrannical hold upon football management for some of his observers. An 'owner' and self-appointed 'president' could and can accomplish EVERYTHING mentioned in the previous paragraph without managing players and coaches. This is the key point that is often mistakenly muddled with perception of greed.

Simply put, Jones does not need the title of GM to be successful. Jones wants the title of general manager. He desires the title so badly that he has not relinquished the responsibility to any other qualified, competent football professional, for even a single day, in over thirty years. Even Jones himself is on record saying he has performed poorly as GM at times. Even so, he has never allowed an outsider to assume his responsibilities as general manager and gain a different perspective for achieving success on the field--not even for one minute.

Why?

When people stop and truly think why that is, they, themselves, gain a new insight into Jones that has been there to see all along.
 

rnr_honeybadger

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How did we get to a place where we value, semingly everything else more then actual Coaching and organizational discipline?

Easy - a egomaniac who fancies himself as a great football mind and evaluator of talent purchased the franchise.
 

ghosttown cowboy

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As soon as the salary cap started in 1994 and Jerry couldn't depend on others to evaluate talent while he opened his check book, that is when he started doubling down. We've just followed him down the rabbit hole. The entire fan base has had the same complaint since the mid 90's and nothing has changed, and it won't, because JJ sold his soul to the devil for that 3rd Lombardi...
 

kskboys

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He never demanded to be the highest paid QB and threaten to hold out, even when he was clearly the best! And divide $235 million by 20. He was pretty cheap! This argument cuts both ways, Amigos.
Well said.

Driving force for Brady was wanting to win. If a player wants to win, he does not force a maxed out deal. It's not really much more complicated than that.
 

DallasEast

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Ego. Every person has an ego. Every person is not a narcissist, which is a step beyond having a simple ego.

Some people constantly quantify Jones's inflated ego as the source of his long-standing intractability as general manager. It should be noted there are many people with inflated egos though.

Do some people stop-and-consider 'most' individuals, with inflated egos, are not nearly as inflexible as Jones has demonstrated? Maybe, just maybe, Jerry Jones, the person, is driven by much more than simple ego.

Just food for thought.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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No doubt they are a well coached team. And Bill makes them good. All those superbowls were Brady though. My point is, that they are not going to win superbowls like they were, and most likely will not get there for a long time. But they are a well coached team

I don't agree with this. Later, more Brady. Earlier, more Defense and Running Game. But there again, that shows how well coached that team was. To be able to transform yourself and stay consistent is not easy in this day and age of NFL play. Either way, we agree, well Coached team under Belichick.
 

cern

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Well said.

Driving force for Brady was wanting to win. If a player wants to win, he does not force a maxed out deal. It's not really much more complicated than that.
so true. and tom sees beyond just the end of his nfl career. he'll be in large demand in many venues due to his success on the field. too many athletes are short sighted. they cannot see beyond the end of their careers.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Easy - a egomaniac who fancies himself as a great football mind and evaluator of talent purchased the franchise.

Well, we say this but how was that able to continue over a period of 30 years? I mean, all of what you say above might be true but allowing that to continue for such a long period of time, that's not on Jerry. That's on the fan base.
 

ChuckA1

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Well, we say this but how was that able to continue over a period of 30 years? I mean, all of what you say above might be true but allowing that to continue for such a long period of time, that's not on Jerry. That's on the fan base.

Unfortunately, the fan base has no control over day to day operations, the draft, FA or the FO. The only things fans can do are stop buying merchandise, stop attending games and stop following the team. If the latter is that easy, I question just what kind of fans you are referring.
 
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jnday

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Discount is verrrry relative when discussing Tom Brady and the Patriots. He may have taken less here and there, but he still made $235 million with them. He wasn't cutting vet minimum deals with them.
No, but I give Brady credit for adjusting his income, as needed, to help his team, which is something that I haven’t seen from any Cowboys players. It seems like Dallas players are more worried about “getting theirs” than they are worried about winning.
 

jnday

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Unfortunately, the fan base has no control over day to day operations, the draft, FA or the FO. The only things fans can do are stop buying merchandise and stop following the team. If the latter is that easy, I question just what kind of fans you are referring.
Dallas fans are incapable of sticking together. Jerry will not change until the money stops rolling in, and fans willingly supports a poor product on the field by continuing to spend money on tickets , tee shirts , caps , etc. A lot of these casual fans have no ideal how bad the team is run by Jerry and Stephen . Our only hope is for the booger-eating grandson to mature and take over.
 
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