Zeke cannot do what Pollard does

CowboyFrog · Nov 24, 2020

RonnieT24 said:
I think the fallacy is his continuing insistence that there is only one single way to win it all in the NFL. As with most things in the NFL this RB don't matter thing will be cyclical.. Remember when WRs stared to get big and DBs started to get big and teams countered by drafting smaller shiftier receivers.. then DBs got smaller and the cycle started all over again. For years we heard that no NFL rushing champ had ever won a Super Bowl.. In fact I think one had never even made it to one.. then Emmitt broke that seal and won three followed by TD winning two and then Shaun Alexander not winning but getting there. I'm pretty sure Marshawn Lynch was a top 5 back (in performance and pay) when the Seahawks won.. . Sure as I sit here there is GOING to be an NFL rushing leader who is going to land in the right place at the right time and he's going to help his team win a championship or two. And as soon as that happens half the league will go back to drafting huge hogs up front and building around the running game. It might happen here .. because if we get the level of defensive play we are now getting and Dak comes back to the level he was at this team is a serious Super Bowl contender.

That is pretty much spot on with how the league flows for sure, and I agree we can win with this roster and paying who we need to pay. We have to be better at filling holes in the draft and FA, barring major injuries or sudden retirements we are 2 to 3 defensive players away from a solid team on offense and defense.....I know some will hammer me for that but if all the injuries come back we are a good team that needs defensive players up the middle (and a CB) in a bad way.

gjkoeppen · Nov 24, 2020

phildadon86 said:
So you are obviously not good at seeing things. Pollard is not built like any of the backs you mentioned.

Gee Pollard is taller than both Kamara and McCoy, the same weight as McCoy and only 5 pounds lighter than Kamara.. That seems pretty close to the same build to me oh and he has a faster 40 time than both.
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starfan1 · Nov 24, 2020

Cowboy Lover said:
Go ahead and say your piece star. Maybe if we keep the money out of as per OP.....we can have a great discussion.

cant remember what were talking about here i thought my comment had to with discussing beating Washington but at my age I can forget things. I'm all about discussing things related to our running back and i can keep money out of it depending on what the topic is.

If were talking about zeke as a number 1 and his value to the team in my opinion he is great value in terms of on field. He's a good blocker with average speed and average pass catching ability and monumental strength. If the cowboys could consistently put together a game like last week then Zeke could be used a bit more to where his strengths are. The problem the last 2 years besides the line going south is its either an untimely turnover (some were zekes) or a swiss cheese defense and the cowboys were forced to air it out to either catch up or keep up. If were talking about whether i think pollard should be the #1 I don't. Pollard cant hold up to that. I like the mix I think Pollard should be getting more carries but not too many more, but Pollard is much more explosive as Zeke has lost speed. That don't mean he cant still be used effectively.

Now if were talking about in 2016 and whether it was the right choice its not a good discussion as no one is going to be able to convince me the the boys made the right choice there. With all the defensive issue we have had and the fact that the strength of our team was the line from 2014-2018 the selection should have been Ramsey and I cant stand him but he would have been better value and we still may have been able to get henry and had both of them

gjkoeppen · Nov 24, 2020

Streetwise said:
He does a pretty good job when our offense is in the spread, but doesn't do very well when we run multiple TE sets. If we ran the spread often enough the defense would destroy him.

He's not a power back like Elliott, he's a speed and moves back and as thus if the Cowboys ran hurry up offense with 2 WR and a slot and mixed up Pollard runs with the passing it will make it tough for the defense to play up for Pollard or play pass because there's always those 3 receivers out there and Pollard.
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starfan1 · Nov 24, 2020

Dre11 said:
Zeke is no comparison to Bettie in build....lol
he also is the same type of back, Zeke is a faster more explosive Emmitt type, always falling forward, grinding for yards,breaks the occasional big run, high volume carries, although he's more of a punisher than Emmitt.

lol what do you consider a big run? Im old and my memory can be lacking a bit but Im not seeing the occasional big run. Unless your idea of big run is 20 yards or less

CowboyRoy · Nov 24, 2020

Doomsday said:
Bull, Zeke and company was pounding the Vikings for 3 1/2 quarters, if you don't think that had an affect on the defense your nuts.

Zeke is great for the 4 yard pounding, but that’s all he’s good for. Short yardage and GL too predictable.

Overrated back.

DanA · Nov 24, 2020

Mostly, it’s the fumbles. I can handle the relatively average production given the way he runs and the punishment he dishes out but 5+ fumbles in a season is unacceptable.

CowboyFrog · Nov 24, 2020

DanA said:
Mostly, it’s the fumbles. I can handle the relatively average production given the way he runs and the punishment he dishes out but 5+ fumbles in a season is unacceptable.

agreed lets hope he fixed that for sure.

SumGuy · Nov 24, 2020

Streetwise said:
You would rather have Hunt? What was your point in comparing the two players with only a half season? Why not take a look at their body of work? Probably because it would interrupt your cherry picking. It's not even worth debating why I would take Elliott over Hunt because there are certain fans that have their mind made up on hating on a player and all they can come up with is something they have no clue on or control over - salary.
Obviously, averages are effected by frequency. Elliott has so many more yards rushing and receiving there's no debate. He also has twice the starts.
I wasn't a fan of drafting a RB with the 4th over all or extended his contract early, but just like what the owner pays him, it's out of my control and it's a weak angle. It's not your money. And to compare a RB on his rookie contract to one who's extend is disingenuous.

Then by your logic you'd rather have Frank Gore as your starter today based on his "body of work". Hey, Gore has way more yards and starts than Zeke, and those seem to be the metrics you care about -- you want to talk weak angles? Sorry but that's ridiculous -- when deciding on a RB for this year, I think I'll focus on the stats from this year (maybe a little from last year), not what happened many years ago. You can go back to Zeke's prime years if it helps your narrative. I'm going to focus on the present, though.

Also, you were the one that threw out the "who has more yards" as though that's the only metric you should go by when selecting a RB, you never said a word about averages. And this has nothing to do with whose money it is or who's in control, I am saying if given the choice, with the current salary cap rules of the NFL and the current play from Zeke & Hunt, then yes I'd rather have Hunt (or anyone with similar stats at much less pay). Or at the very least it isn't as obvious a choice to the objective observer as it is to Zeke-lovers.

SteveTheCowboy · Nov 24, 2020

starfan1 said:
cant remember what were talking about here i thought my comment had to with discussing beating Washington but at my age I can forget things. I'm all about discussing things related to our running back and i can keep money out of it depending on what the topic is.

If were talking about zeke as a number 1 and his value to the team in my opinion he is great value in terms of on field. He's a good blocker with average speed and average pass catching ability and monumental strength. If the cowboys could consistently put together a game like last week then Zeke could be used a bit more to where his strengths are. The problem the last 2 years besides the line going south is its either an untimely turnover (some were zekes) or a swiss cheese defense and the cowboys were forced to air it out to either catch up or keep up. If were talking about whether i think pollard should be the #1 I don't. Pollard cant hold up to that. I like the mix I think Pollard should be getting more carries but not too many more, but Pollard is much more explosive as Zeke has lost speed. That don't mean he cant still be used effectively.

Now if were talking about in 2016 and whether it was the right choice its not a good discussion as no one is going to be able to convince me the the boys made the right choice there. With all the defensive issue we have had and the fact that the strength of our team was the line from 2014-2018 the selection should have been Ramsey and I cant stand him but he would have been better value and we still may have been able to get henry and had both of them

Ah...nice take. The only thing I don't understand is that you "can't stand him" (Ramsey) so I think at the end of the day you would have judged him unfairly. I mean...you are trying to change the timeline ...but how do you know how things go when you do that? If the cowboys can't consistently put together a game plan for zeke, or Byron Jones....why would you expect a great game plan for Ramsey? A "better value"? For how long?

Great talking points but....can't hang your hat on it as a sure thing.

SteveTheCowboy · Nov 24, 2020

CowboyRoy said:
Zeke is great for the 4 yard pounding, but that’s all he’s good for. Short yardage and GL too predictable.

Overrated back.

Yes.....because Dak has been healthy....except for when zeke became just another JAG. Then Dak got injured. Hmmm....interesting turn of events.

Bobhaze · Nov 24, 2020

kskboys said:
And Pollard cannot do what Zeke does.

Zeke is a very good chain moving pile driving RB. He gets the tough yards between the tackles. Often gets yards when there's nowhere to go.

Pollard is an explosive 3rd down back. He explodes through the hole and makes big plays.

This is one of the best combos in the NFL. Zeke takes the majority of the carries and softens 'em up, Pollard takes the top off.

Why is it whenever Pollard has a longer run people start screaming that he should get all the carries? It's just silly. How do you not see that it's the combo that's awesome?

The strange truth is Zeke is now basically the “thunder” power back and Pollard is the “lightening” quick strike back. I have been saying for two years that every so often, we should put both guys on the field at the same time. That would give defenses more to think about.

It was nice to see Zeke in the slot last week. Would be cool to see some combo of Zeke and Pollard in some kind of unusual set. Dallas still stays in its base offense too much.

Runwildboys · Nov 24, 2020

endersdragon said:
Reminds me of Barber/Jones

If Barber/Jones weren't a cartoon, in comparison.

Idgit · Nov 24, 2020

Cowboy Lover said:
WHich ones of OUR #2 went successfully to #1 for more than one or two years?

Not trying to be confrontational....just can;t think of anyone who assumed #1 spot and tore it up for any length of time.

Dak.
If you’re talking RB only, Demarco Murray is probably the most recent Cowboy example, taking over from Felix Jones early in the season as an injury replacement and keeping it until he signed the big FA deal with Philly.

Runwildboys · Nov 24, 2020

Avery said:
Not going to bag on Zeke too much, but he's definitely lost a step which is odd to say from someone that's 25. The burst he had his first few seasons simply isn't there.

I do think getting Pollard a good ten carries a game will help keep Zeke a bit more rested.

I wasn't able to watch the whole game, just what they showed on RedZone...but from what I did see, Zeke seemed to have plenty of burst. What he does seem to lack is top end.

blueblood70 · Nov 24, 2020

RonnieT24 said:
This is patently false.. Henry is averaging 22.9 totes a game.. Cook is averaging 22.3 Josh Jacobs is averaging 19.9. Zeke and Robinson are averaging just over 17. Ronald Jones of the Bucs is the only one of the top 6 rushers who is averaging 15 a game. Kamara and his 53.1 yards/game is the best in the league.. Dude has more reception yards than he does as a runner.. Yeah.. sure..

why i called him a Hybrid dudes receiver that can run , they have to be separated in conversations IMHO different types of players suit different schemes,....the saints were better with Ingram and Kamara.. Ingram did well last year without Kamamra but Kamara dropped ff bit..Peyton knows how to use these guys and goes what what he has and Kamaras doing well but hes a nice back for sure, best no way..

CT Dal Fan · Nov 24, 2020

To be fair Zeke almost looked like his old self against Minnesota. Maybe his hamstring has been a problem longer than we know and the bye week helped him.

Plus I don't think there would be half of the angst against Elliott if not for his contract. The Cowboys are to blame for paying a player at a position that has a traditionally short shelf life; we can't really blame Zeke himself. Just my opinion.

G2 · Nov 24, 2020

SumGuy said:
Then by your logic you'd rather have Frank Gore as your starter today based on his "body of work". Hey, Gore has way more yards and starts than Zeke, and those seem to be the metrics you care about -- you want to talk weak angles? Sorry but that's ridiculous -- when deciding on a RB for this year, I think I'll focus on the stats from this year (maybe a little from last year), not what happened many years ago. You can go back to Zeke's prime years if it helps your narrative. I'm going to focus on the present, though.

Also, you were the one that threw out the "who has more yards" as though that's the only metric you should go by when selecting a RB, you never said a word about averages. And this has nothing to do with whose money it is or who's in control, I am saying if given the choice, with the current salary cap rules of the NFL and the current play from Zeke & Hunt, then yes I'd rather have Hunt (or anyone with similar stats at much less pay). Or at the very least it isn't as obvious a choice to the objective observer as it is to Zeke-lovers.

You read what you want, even though I clearly illustrated my opinion on drafting and extending Elliott. Labeling me a Zeke lover is what people lower themselves to with not real argument.
Tell you what, we'll see what happens at the end of the season. We'll see which guy has a better season. I'd still take Elliott over Hunt. Hunt isn't even the best RB on his team and also, I think he and Pollard compliment each other just fine.

G2 · Nov 24, 2020

Runwildboys said:
I wasn't able to watch the whole game, just what they showed on RedZone...but from what I did see, Zeke seemed to have plenty of burst. What he does seem to lack is top end.

I was thinking about that. Elliott really never had a lot of longer runs. I'm sure he's slowed down over the years in general, but I wonder if his top end speed was more perception in terms of how he's used. He's not a guy I'd want doing sweeps or end arounds. Seems to get stuffed.

SteveTheCowboy · Nov 24, 2020

Idgit said:
Dak.
If you’re talking RB only, Demarco Murray is probably the most recent Cowboy example, taking over from Felix Jones early in the season as an injury replacement and keeping it until he signed the big FA deal with Philly.

Yes of course I am talking about RB...jeesus christ dude. It;'s what we been talking about the whole time. And besides...Dak NEVER played #2 in his life as a cowboy.

Yes..Demarco Murray. I wish I would have said "except Demarco Murray"...but he was never our prototypical #2 flash-n-slash player.
Do you got anything else? Should I list the legit #2's slashers that Pollard fits the mold of?

Pollard is no Murray and surely you understand that. But then...you think we're talking QB's who never even PLAYED as #2's.....so...well never mind.

Zeke cannot do what Pollard does

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