Zeke cannot do what Pollard does

blueblood70

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I give Russ a pass on that one because he was only in his 3rd? year and probably not comfortable overruling the coaches at that point.. I guarantee you if they sent that play in to current Russ he'd laugh and change it at the line to a run..
my point was if that was handed off and a game winner by a #1 RB in a SB, helps this debate..Lynch was used like Zeke and it was working.

Lynch helped Russ succeed early in his career while learning
Bettis helped Ben
Henry got Tannehill to an afccg
etc etc
 

RonnieT24

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So if Zeke has declined since 2016, what is the reason?

Age? He's 25 years old. Still young.
Injury? Never has had an ACL or MCL tear, or any significant injury.
Number of carries? 1340, average 20.30 a game, not excessively high.
Attitude? He got in trouble several times early in his career, what about lately? No, has settled down (as far as we know).
Contract? He doesn't want another big deal in a few years? If so it behooves him to play well, otherwise he's cutting his own throat.

Maybe there's another reason, but what?

Or else it's just as I've said, teams have lots of film and game play on him, they have learned how to compensate for his strengths/moves/formations, etc.?

Inquiring minds want to know....


The number one thing is the book.. and by the book I mean the book on him and perhaps more importantly how we use him. There are probably less than a half dozen running plays we run with Zeke. Back when the line was great that didn't matter. As the guys from the 90's often say, they essentially ran three running plays. Emmitt left, Emmitt right and Emmitt up the middle. It didn't matter that it was simple and teams knew it was coming.. They were better than the guys in front of them. The Cowboys and Zeke had that same luxury, though to a lesser extent in 2016 and 2017. But injuries have taken some of the starch out of the boys up front. More bodies have had to sub in and the guys who are there have been compromised to some degree. Now we see a lot more leakage into the backfield than before.. Zeke is having to beat at least one man just to get back to the line of scrimmage at least 10 times a game. The reason for that is twofold. Now only is the line not as good, but as I started out by saying.. the book.. If a team watches 100 runs by Zeke and notice a variation of only 3 formations and maybe 3 or 4 plays they can attack the line of scrimmage with a great deal more confidence. Especially if we have no passing attack. That's why the play action is SO effective for this team.. The defense has its pants down around its collective ankles anytime we fake it to Zeke. Now that Dalton has shown he can take advantage of that, the passing game is going to be something teams have to worry about again and as a result Zeke will see fewer guys waiting on him to take the handoff. And as that happens the noise about his "decline" will soften to a whisper.. Some will still cling to the "well he still makes too much money" or "he doesn't break long runs" canards.. but most sane fans will watch him average 90+ yards a game getting all those tough yards and think.. damn.. that guy's pretty good. Glad he's on my team.
 

Xeven

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Zeke lacks vision. Pollard feels and see’s the holes and gaps before they are there. It’s what Emmit could do.
 

LACowboysFan1

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Zeke lacks vision. Pollard feels and see’s the holes and gaps before they are there. It’s what Emmit could do.

So he never had vision? Was a top runner for years on college and for 3 years on the Cowboys, but somehow he managed to win 2 rushing titles, and probably would have won another without being suspended 6 games, and yet "lacks vision"?

That's something you have, or don't, as a runner, it's not learned or forgotten. Usually if the back's performance tails off, it's because he sees the holes, just can't physically get there or break the tackle. Per above, there's no reason for Zeke to have had that happen to him.

And as far as the "he's only good with a top line", let's look at Emmitt's career, shall we?
From 1992 through 1995, he never had less than 1,484 yards, had 18 or more tds 3 of those 4 years, 9 in 1993 but he held out 2 games, and 4.6, 5.3 and 4.7 ypc in 3 of the 4 years.

Then from 1996 on, never above 4.2 ypc, or 1400 or more yards. So what happened?

Well in 1994 John Gesek and Kevin Gogan left. In 1995 Mark Stepnoski left. Tuinei left after 1997 but he had a knee injury a year or two before. Cowboys got Larry Allen, but he's only one guy, great as he was. The line was NOT the Great Wall anymore. So I guess Emmitt lost his vision, got fat, got satisfied with his contract, etc.? Does anybody that watched Emmitt or heard about him think that? Certainly not, but that's what they say about Zeke, and the oft-heard line "doesn't matter, he got paid so he should still be cranking out 1,400 yard and 12 td seasons, right? Oh wait, in 2019 he had only 43 yards less than 1,400 and still 12 tds.

If 1,357 yards and 12 tds is poor, I'll be glad to have it...
 

blueblood70

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So he never had vision? Was a top runner for years on college and for 3 years on the Cowboys, but somehow he managed to win 2 rushing titles, and probably would have won another without being suspended 6 games, and yet "lacks vision"?

That's something you have, or don't, as a runner, it's not learned or forgotten. Usually if the back's performance tails off, it's because he sees the holes, just can't physically get there or break the tackle. Per above, there's no reason for Zeke to have had that happen to him.

And as far as the "he's only good with a top line", let's look at Emmitt's career, shall we?
From 1992 through 1995, he never had less than 1,484 yards, had 18 or more tds 3 of those 4 years, 9 in 1993 but he held out 2 games, and 4.6, 5.3 and 4.7 ypc in 3 of the 4 years.

Then from 1996 on, never above 4.2 ypc, or 1400 or more yards. So what happened?

Well in 1994 John Gesek and Kevin Gogan left. In 1995 Mark Stepnoski left. Tuinei left after 1997 but he had a knee injury a year or two before. Cowboys got Larry Allen, but he's only one guy, great as he was. The line was NOT the Great Wall anymore. So I guess Emmitt lost his vision, got fat, got satisfied with his contract, etc.? Does anybody that watched Emmitt or heard about him think that? Certainly not, but that's what they say about Zeke, and the oft-heard line "doesn't matter, he got paid so he should still be cranking out 1,400 yard and 12 td seasons, right? Oh wait, in 2019 he had only 43 yards less than 1,400 and still 12 tds.

If 1,357 yards and 12 tds is poor, I'll be glad to have it...
LOL ive pointed this out several times this month how many season Smith had with under 4YPC and that zeke having his worst year with the worst team around him..it is eerily similar.. no one listens, these stats also hold true for Bettis, George and others,

somehow the memories of the zone think these RBs had 5YOC every year, its not that way most were all under 4.5 most years and under 4YPc many of them,...some how Zekes being held to a higher standard..
 

Dre11

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Lol when in 2016? Sure as hell hadn’t been lately

that's not what you asked and it's been much later than that. But I understand you've been salty about the Zeke pick all the way back to 2016 when we were at the ranch. it's cool, you don't like him
 

Dre11

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2018 his longest run was 84 yds
2019 it was 78
2020 it is 45 so far

Talk about letting an agenda blind you.

Lol..understand starfan1 was salty when pick was picked in 2016. this going back to another board ran by Mike Fisher. Ain't that right Star?
 

starfan1

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that's not what you asked and it's been much later than that. But I understand you've been salty about the Zeke pick all the way back to 2016 when we were at the ranch. it's cool, you don't like him
I guess I should have went with the sarcasm emoji But I wasn't too far off base. 2 were 2016 the other 2018 dude just compare 2016 stats and you see the progressive fall from grace. the atlants might have been 17 i didnt llook up that 1
 

Dre11

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Most of those early in 2016 in 2018 playoffs against Seattle was 44 yarder and in 2018 Detroit was 41

his longest in last 2 years is 33 the 1st game of year against Washington which supports what most have said that since his new contract the numbers have plummeted and his fumbles have increased

that said so has the line. I have always said that it was the line that was a large part of his success

the line is a large part of every back, the only back that had great success without a line was Sanders.
Zeke has had a down year, but to claim he not still a top back or feared back on the league is crazy. if you could poll every DC in the league Zeke is the number 1 priority in game planning.
 

starfan1

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Lol..understand starfan1 was salty when pick was picked in 2016. this going back to another board ran by Mike Fisher. Ain't that right Star?

I dont make no bones about that.It was stupid then and it was stupid to extend him early and the defense is still what it was then in fact its worse.Zeke plays a role that could have been filled by just about anyone in top 2 rounds at that position. in fact Murray in 2014, Mcfadden in 2015 and old man Mcfadden at that, what year was Morris he did well also. So no one can convince me it was the right pick. Ramsay should have been the pick. Having Ramsay ,Jones and Henry (for example)changes the scope of our defense dramatically our offnese is virtually the same
 

G2

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So if Zeke has declined since 2016, what is the reason?

Age? He's 25 years old. Still young.
Injury? Never has had an ACL or MCL tear, or any significant injury.
Number of carries? 1340, average 20.30 a game, not excessively high.
Attitude? He got in trouble several times early in his career, what about lately? No, has settled down (as far as we know).
Contract? He doesn't want another big deal in a few years? If so it behooves him to play well, otherwise he's cutting his own throat.

Maybe there's another reason, but what?

Or else it's just as I've said, teams have lots of film and game play on him, they have learned how to compensate for his strengths/moves/formations, etc.?

Inquiring minds want to know....
I think the main thing is the changes in the offense overall. The O line isn't even close to what it was. We had 3 legit All Pros.
I do think it's just a mileage thing over the years. Wear and tear.
Plus, there have been times that he was playing injured over the years.
I don't think it took long for opposing defenses to focus on him.
My guess is the biggest factor is the O line. So much depends on it.
 

starfan1

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the line is a large part of every back, the only back that had great success without a line was Sanders.
Zeke has had a down year, but to claim he not still a top back or feared back on the league is crazy. if you could poll every DC in the league Zeke is the number 1 priority in game planning.
the way we have run our offense we can be somewhat predictable until recently so thats not a stretch to say that. There are several backs in this league that are top backs and most all DC are going to gear to stop run first because most OC want to run and control the clock keep the ball out of the other teams offense.

Unless you have Patrick Mahomes or aaron rodgers most teams want to do that maybe you can throw in Pittsburgh. Regardless there are at least 6-10 RB's Id take over Zeke in a heartbeat. That said it dont mean at all that we cant win with zeke and If we got last weeks performance every week we may sing a little different tune. Zeke has had a down couple of years
 

Dre11

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I guess I should have went with the sarcasm emoji But I wasn't too far off base. 2 were 2016 the other 2018 dude just compare 2016 stats and you see the progressive fall from grace. the atlants might have been 17 i didnt llook up that 1

In just 2019 he had like 3 or 4 30 yard runs, or just under 30 , you don't call those big runs, add to that his big catch and runs

 

Dre11

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the way we have run our offense we can be somewhat predictable until recently so thats not a stretch to say that. There are several backs in this league that are top backs and most all DC are going to gear to stop run first because most OC want to run and control the clock keep the ball out of the other teams offense.

Unless you have Patrick Mahomes or aaron rodgers most teams want to do that maybe you can throw in Pittsburgh. Regardless there are at least 6-10 RB's Id take over Zeke in a heartbeat. That said it dont mean at all that we cant win with zeke and If we got last weeks performance every week we may sing a little different tune. Zeke has had a down couple of years


Lol name the 6 and I'll say you're crazy, I'm not talking about backs that do it 1 year or 2 years, and no it's not just stopping the run, it's stopping Zeke, you're right the way we were constructed made it even more of a feat for Zeke to do what he did and doing, because teams knew we wanted to line up and run it and we still ran it,
 

starfan1

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In just 2019 he had like 3 or 4 30 yard runs, or just under 30 , you don't call those big runs, add to that his big catch and runs



now compare that to his 2016 highlight reel and tell me he hasnt regressed.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/3051392/type/nfl/year/2019
https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/3051392/type/nfl/year/2016

I suppose if I went in and pulled stats from other top RBs wed like those stats better but if you are nitpicking my words youre right. My sarcasm is not always factual.
 

starfan1

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Lol name the 6 and I'll say you're crazy, I'm not talking about backs that do it 1 year or 2 years, and no it's not just stopping the run, it's stopping Zeke, you're right the way we were constructed made it even more of a feat for Zeke to do what he did and doing, because teams knew we wanted to line up and run it and we still ran it,

Henry ,Kamara, Chubb, Jacobs, Hunt, Cook, McCaffery, Barkley even Gurley for starters and anyone of them could meet or exceed Zekes numbers because up until 2019 we had one of the top lines in football. you calling me crazy is not anything that's shocking to me because anyone who don't hold your point of view you've tend to use that wording. You're a coach so you must be right. All those guys are more explosive and behind the we have had would find success and coaches would have to gameplan for. Now i know you're going to comeback with the injury thing but the point of this discussion in my view is not which RB can stay on the field the longest because ill concede that. Its all these RBs would have done well here and Ramsey would have been the better pick. sorry for my delayed response I had a short zoom meeting

You are gonna have a really hard time convincing me its Zeke is the difference maker. Hes not chopped liver but its the line.
 

GORICO

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And Pollard cannot do what Zeke does.

Zeke is a very good chain moving pile driving RB. He gets the tough yards between the tackles. Often gets yards when there's nowhere to go.

Pollard is an explosive 3rd down back. He explodes through the hole and makes big plays.

This is one of the best combos in the NFL. Zeke takes the majority of the carries and softens 'em up, Pollard takes the top off.

Why is it whenever Pollard has a longer run people start screaming that he should get all the carries? It's just silly. How do you not see that it's the combo that's awesome?

mr ksboys---i think they call the combo--Thunder and Lightening
 

StuckMojo

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I don’t think Henry would be as effective in Moore’s offense like he is his current offense.
 
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