Parsons not Top 5?

cnuball21 · Nov 14, 2020

baltcowboy said:
From what I remember about 2016 draft before Jaylon’s injury he was considered the number 1 player on the board over the quarterbacks. The two are similar but Jaylon was considered a better pass rusher. Parsons is probably the better middle linebacker prospect because that is what he played in college but we have LVE in that spot.

Strongly disagree. Jaylon was widely considered a top 10 pick, but for some reason a lot people ignored the knock on his instincts. Obviously the athleticism is a piece of the puzzle, but eyes and instincts are critical so I definitely would not have drafted him that early even if he didn’t get hurt.

This is why guys like Lee can play better than 4.5 Speed LBs that don’t have instincts.

Parsons is an elite athlete with + instincts. Jaylon might’ve been a better pass rusher as a prospect, but Parsons is still above average there as well. It’s not even really close IMO who the better prospect is coming out.

xwalker · Nov 15, 2020

beware_d-ware said:
His Combine is going to be wild.

Devin White crushed the 40 at his Combine, but tested "just" above average in the agility drills. Isiah Simmons burned down the track and jumped to the moon, but you knew just by the tape that he was stiff.

With Parsons, you see just on film that he's 4.4 fast to the sideline, he's got the raw burst off the snap that translates to huge broad jumps, and he's got looser hips than White ever did. If he tests like I think he's going to test, it's going to be an LB Combine for the ages.

Simmons stiff... :huh:

CATCH17 · Nov 15, 2020

I still haven’t watched much of him but it’s hard to validate taking a linebacker top 5.

CalPolyTechnique · Nov 15, 2020

baltcowboy said:
I remember former Commanders GM Vinny Cerato discussing the 2016 draft on his talk show. He said when Jaylon was allowed to rush the passer he had the best pass rushing moves in that draft. He thought Jaylon would be a 3/4 pass rusher like Von Miller before the injury.

His movement skills were night/day different in college than what we see now post injury.

CATCH17 said:
I still haven’t watched much of him but it’s hard to validate taking a linebacker top 5.

It’s rather easy when you take into context the available players in the draft.

You can’t magically make a blue-chip DT prospect appear.

Cowboyny · Nov 15, 2020

Nolan wants to run a two gap, read/react front. What is required? A space eating NT that can occupy multiple blockers and instinctive linebackers who can see the play before it happens. They need to be in sync with the lineman in front of them.

If you draft Parsons, and add a legit NT, the run defense is pretty much rebuilt. Add a NT with Jaylon, there is still going to be issues, almost have to play a 1 gap system cause his reads are all over the place. That 1 gap system was exposed in the playoffs against a good, zone blocking running team.

CATCH17 · Nov 15, 2020

CalPolyTechnique said:
His movement skills were night/day different in college than what we see now post injury.

It’s rather easy when you take into context the available players in the draft.

You can’t magically make a blue-chip DT prospect appear.

Yeah.. It’s still November and I haven’t done a deep dive into this class yet.

I don’t know what all is out there.

kskboys · Nov 15, 2020

baltcowboy said:
A combination of Parsons and Marvin Wilson Florida State defensive tackle would be intriguing. Wilson could fall to the top of the 2nd round. I still say follow the money. The Joneses are drafting a cornerback with the first pick.

Crapp. Let me guess, then an injured LB in the 2nd, a slow TE in the 3rd, and another tall WR in the 4th. Yay.

HungryLion · Nov 27, 2020

CalPolyTechnique said:
The positions value argument doesn’t sway me. If you’re talking running back, yeah, definitely.

I’ve got zero issues taking an ILB in the Top 10. Your MLB is the glue of the defense. Parsons also has flex and would be an incredible WLB in my opinion.

If you watch the cut-up I provided you see the instincts jump off the film. That misdirection play he blew up was a thing of beauty. Now think of how you’ve seen Jaylon run around in circles, lol.

He registered two pass breakups but he really just dropped a pass that he read perfectly and broke on the route.

I agree. I know people don’t value LB as much as they use to.

but he is an elite prospect. If you think you’re getting the next Urlacher or Keuchly. You don’t pass it up.

Bowdown27 · Nov 27, 2020

DakPresgoat said:
I agree. I know people don’t value LB as much as they use to.

but he is an elite prospect. If you think you’re getting the next Urlacher or Keuchly. You don’t pass it up.

Exactly my thought. He could be the cornerstone who changes the identity of the team

HungryLion · Nov 27, 2020

Bowdown27 said:
Exactly my thought. He could be the cornerstone who changes the identity of the team

Exactly. He has the ability to be a keystone player. An every down linebacker who can do everything. Stop the run, rush the passer, cover TE’s and RB’s.

He has it all and would be the centerpiece of the entire defense.

Daygoboy6191 · Nov 28, 2020

DakPresgoat said:
I agree. I know people don’t value LB as much as they use to.

but he is an elite prospect. If you think you’re getting the next Urlacher or Keuchly. You don’t pass it up.

Name the top 5 nonrush lb's in the NFL right now?

HungryLion · Nov 28, 2020

Daygoboy6191 said:
Name the top 5 nonrush lb's in the NFL right now?

Darius Leonard, Bobby Wagner, Luke Keuchly I’m using because he just retired, Dont’a Hightower, probably Eric Kendricks next.

Now tell me that Darius Leonard, Wagner, Keuchly and Hightower don’t have massive impacts on their respective defenses.

I would also argue that Parsons is a very talented blitzer. Of course he isn’t a rush OLB. But if you use him properly and let him blitz. I bet he will get a handful of sacks every season. Plus all the TFL’s.

I understand the concerns. I really do. I’m just saying. Parsons is an elite, blue chip prospect. He transcends the typical concerns about taking an ILB that early because he has the talent and skill to be an elite linebacker. In the mold of a Keuchly or Urlacher or Willis, etc. and linebackers at that level, have a massive impact on a defense.

Cowboyny · Nov 28, 2020

DakPresgoat said:
Darius Leonard, Bobby Wagner, Luke Keuchly I’m using because he just retired, Dont’a Hightower, probably Eric Kendricks next.

Now tell me that Darius Leonard, Wagner, Keuchly and Hightower don’t have massive impacts on their respective defenses.

I would also argue that Parsons is a very talented blitzer. Of course he isn’t a rush OLB. But if you use him properly and let him blitz. I bet he will get a handful of sacks every season. Plus all the TFL’s.

I understand the concerns. I really do. I’m just saying. Parsons is an elite, blue chip prospect. He transcends the typical concerns about taking an ILB that early because he has the talent and skill to be an elite linebacker. In the mold of a Keuchly or Urlacher or Willis, etc. and linebackers at that level, have a massive impact on a defense.

Looking at our list of current LB's, Leonard, Wagner and Kendricks were all 2nd rd selections, but top 5 picks.

Bowdown27 · Nov 28, 2020

DakPresgoat said:
Exactly. He has the ability to be a keystone player. An every down linebacker who can do everything. Stop the run, rush the passer, cover TE’s and RB’s.

He has it all and would be the centerpiece of the entire defense.

Bingo. And you see how jaylon has really hurt this defense

HungryLion · Nov 28, 2020

Cowboyny said:
Looking at our list of current LB's, Leonard, Wagner and Kendricks were all 2nd rd selections, but top 5 picks.

Sure they were. Meanwhile guys like Urlacher, Willis and Keuchly were all drafted around #10 overall.

we could play the “a talented player was taken in the 2nd round” all day long.

Every draft is different, the prospects available is different, etc.

I’m not saying the cowboys HAVE to take Parsons. I’m just saying. With the level of prospect he is, his talent level. He is worth that draft slot. Regardless of his position.

The Realist · Nov 28, 2020

CalPolyTechnique said:
I think everything has to be taken into context.

On balance, I would take a stud DE/DT over a LB, but there isn’t a blue chip prospect coming out this year (at least that we know of now).

Surtain and Fairley are nice prospect but I’m not overdrafting them in the Top 10, et cetera.

You don’t consider the Miami DL a blue chip guy?

CalPolyTechnique · Nov 28, 2020

DakPresgoat said:
Sure they were. Meanwhile guys like Urlacher, Willis and Keuchly were all drafted around #10 overall.

we could play the “a talented player was taken in the 2nd round” all day long.

Every draft is different, the prospects available is different, etc.

I’m not saying the cowboys HAVE to take Parsons. I’m just saying. With the level of prospect he is, his talent level. He is worth that draft slot. Regardless of his position.

I would also say the folks that are saying “those guys were all second rounders” are missing the point entirely.

If you took Bobby Wagner and reentered him into the draft he’d be a Top 3-5 pick. Why? Because he makes an absolute impact as a MLB. Same would go for Leonard, et cetera.

My only hope that I’m clinging to of jettisoning Jaylon is knowing Nolan coached Patrick Willis so he knows what quality LB play should look like.

HungryLion · Nov 28, 2020

CalPolyTechnique said:
I would also say the folks that are saying “those guys were all second rounders” are missing the point entirely.

If you took Bobby Wagner and reentered him into the draft he’d be a Top 3-5 pick. Why? Because he makes an absolute impact as a MLB. Same would go for Leonard, et cetera.

My only hope that I’m clinging to of jettisoning Jaylon is knowing Nolan coached Patrick Willis so he knows what quality LB play should look like.

Agreed 100%. Somebody being a 2nd round pick as opposed to a top 10 pick. Is more about how scouts projected them. When they were coming into the league and graded them as a player.

But we see players over perform their draft slot all the time.

we also see players underperform them all the time.

it’s not really an argument one way or another if a player in the present should be picked or not.

Cowboyny · Nov 28, 2020

DakPresgoat said:
Sure they were. Meanwhile guys like Urlacher, Willis and Keuchly were all drafted around #10 overall.

we could play the “a talented player was taken in the 2nd round” all day long.

Every draft is different, the prospects available is different, etc.

I’m not saying the cowboys HAVE to take Parsons. I’m just saying. With the level of prospect he is, his talent level. He is worth that draft slot. Regardless of his position.

Just saying in recent years with the game changing, those type of players although very impactful aren't valued as high as they used to be.

HungryLion · Nov 28, 2020

Cowboyny said:
Just saying in recent years with the game changing, those type of players although very impactful aren't valued as high as they used to be.

Disagree. I just think there aren’t that many great linebackers who are on that level.

The old thumping pure run stoppers are dead and gone. But somebody with Parsons athletic ability? You can ask them to do anything.

Parsons not Top 5?

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