Derrick Henry vs Ezekiel Elliott

Sydla said:

This is just rationalizing away a poor decision by the Cowboys, something the Jones have done over and over and over and over that have led to a 24 year run without sniffing even a conference title game appearance.

At the time, no it wasn't the right decision. They locked up a fungible NFL position to a big contract that ate up a significant amount of cap space into a position that often sees the widest disparity in performance year to year. It's also a position that also sees the quickest drop off in production given the nature of the position. Further, the Cowboys had ample evidence of a significant number of teams viewing the RB position as just that, a fungible position, and still being able to build good running games without nearly the investment we made.

You can cite his stats all you want at the time of signing but when you sign a guy you aren't just rewarding him for what he did, you are also projecting what you think you will get from him over a significant portion of the contract. And that's even more important when considering a position like TB that shows guys can quickly fall off the map due to injuries/wear and tear/etc.

The Cowboys made a mistake in signing a TB, any TB, to that level of contract. And now we are going to have to choke on it for a few years most likely.

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blueblood70 said:

MOST teams Offense ,the entire offense , struggles when you are down to your 3rd line..when i say struggle i mean SUK!

NOTE: WE ARE 3-8 BECAUSE OF THE INJURIES NOT ONE PLAYER TRULY HAS DONE WELL THIS SEASON, THE COACHES ARE FAILING BECAUSE OF INJUIRES, SO ITS SAFE TO ASSUME NO MATTER THE RB OR HIS SALARY, THEY WOULD BE STRUGGLING..

SO AGAIN tis has nothing to do with Zeke or his salary this is an anomaly of year and its so far from the norm injury wise you just have to put it behind you and look to 2021..

UM premiums were paid to the OL and they are all on IR..got it yet, light come on, cant be helped with the OL who also is very well paid all end up on IR and their backups in and out of the lineup so playing with 3rd string OL 100% handcuffs what you can do a coach or player..

lastly Jerry has the money to fix the defense regardless of what they paid zeke i mean he paid tank and Smith and will bring in some FA and draft picks to fix the defense..zeke is NOT holding the cap hostage , his deal was team friendly..

now Dak he made 32mil for 3.5 games of play and wants more.. hmmm in my minuscule knowledge of he cap and math id say that over 2.5 times more then zeke and zeke played with a bad hammie and is fighting though 16 game for his 12mil this year.. odd how that common sense says who was overpaid this year..

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rnr_honeybadger said:

My statement has nothing to do with injuries, those are a part of the game. My statement has to do with this teams inability to manage its cap and keep us competitive because the dumb front office keeps spending money on a RB, when you could have gotten the same value by letting him walk and drafting a cheaper option or brining in a free agent.

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Lutonio said:

It’s not about passing on Henry. It’s about reminders game after game, week after week, that you should not use high picks or give big money contracts to the RB position. You can get better production for less investment, and see across the league.

The Cowboys and Rams with Elliott and Gurley are the example of what not to do.

The Steelers with Bell are the example of what you should do.

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MyFairLady said:

Zeke contract would be fine if he wasn't a fat little quitter.

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CouchCoach said:

I watched both of these RB's a lot in college and Elliott was way ahead of Henry in all 3 categories, block, catch and run, coming out of college and the rap on Henry was he needed time to get up to speed and use his size. I saw him stopped plenty of times at Bama.

Would I prefer to have Henry now? Certainly, along with his coaching staff and OL.

The first two years, I didn't notice all of this Elliott/Henry debate and now we play the hindsight game? C'mon, there are other shortcomings to discuss with this team before we get to a player that many are pissed at for his ball protection.

As far as that "party boy" image of Elliott's, that was a buyer beware situation from the beginning. How many fathers have to move to the city where their son goes to college to get him to calm down? And I am sure every poster here concerned about his extracurricular would be in bed at night at 9pm, right after making clothes for needy kids, harvesting the crops for Feed the World and an hour of scripture reading.

There was a poster on the old site that does have a case to make because we pretty much shut him down as a Bama Bowl Cut Booster but he wanted Ramsey with that 1st and Henry with that 2nd and that would have been one hell of a 1-2.

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Typhus said:

fat little multi millionaire on a fat second contract.

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Sydla said:

I'll ask again. You said they are the 29th OL. Where is this stat? I looked and couldn't find it.

I looked at Football Outsiders, and in adjusted line yards, their primary OL run stat, the Cowboys were rated 7th. If you look at generic stats like rushing yards per game, etc, their OL is middle of the pack, or slightly higher. A couple weeks ago, the Cowboys OL was ranked, 13th in run blocking, by Next Gen stats.

So what stat are you citing that has them 29th? Is it an updated Next Gen stat? PFF?

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Streetwise said:

Maybe, but isn't Ramsey considered "overpaid" by the same standards? He's got a 105 million contract.

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LACowboysFan1 said:

After week 3 the Cowboys line was ranked 22nd, by PFF, and I seriously doubt it's improved by then. I could see them ranked 29th currently, after losing Martin and Erving this pas game.

We have backups to backups now starting at both OT spots, does anyone seriously think this is anywhere near a good offensive line?????

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LACowboysFan1 said:

Don't agree. Cowboys signed Emmitt to a big contract, and were rewarded with 2 more SBs. Besides, you're quibbling over details, not the total idea of signing big contracts. If Dallas was stupid to do so, then we have several more stupid teams:

Saints - Signed Kamara to the same $15 mil a year deal in 2020.
Panthers - Signed McCaffery to a $16.015 mil deal in 2020.
Titans - Signed Henry to a $12.5 mil deal in 2020, and he's already 26 years old.
Bengals - Signed Joe Mixon to a $12 mil deal in 2020, and he's never been a Pro Bowler.

Zeke's contract is less than McCaffery's and the same as Kamara's. So you're saying the Saints, Panthers, Titans and Bengals are all stupid also. Bet those teams' gms don't think so.

As for "you aren't just rewarding him for what he did, you are also projecting what you think you will get from him over a significant portion of the contract.." Correct. There is no way anybody can know if Zeke was going to continue his success at the time, but without going over it all again, at his age, past production and lack of injury history, it's very reasonable to assume he could be just as productive for the next few years. If you don't agree, fine, I respect that, but you're making this into a "I'm right and you're wrong" thing, and that just isn't something we can do, without putting it into the 20/20 hindsight context...

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blueblood70 said:

we have plenty of cap,


whoever this we do not are ignorant to the how the cap can be massaged i see it al around the league..KC paid everyone lol ive seen somehow team with under a million in cap space sign 4 players to new deals..dont assume you know what the deal is, again i said this Zekes deal is not effecting our cap use for future signing's.

let the pros handle money and business side of this

watch football

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Streetwise said:

Maybe, but isn't Ramsey considered "overpaid" by the same standards? He's got a 105 million contract.

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LACowboysFan1 said:

After week 3 the Cowboys line was ranked 22nd, by PFF, and I seriously doubt it's improved by then. I could see them ranked 29th currently, after losing Martin and Erving this pas game.

We have backups to backups now starting at both OT spots, does anyone seriously think this is anywhere near a good offensive line?????

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Lutonio said:

It’s not about passing on Henry. It’s about reminders game after game, week after week, that you should not use high picks or give big money contracts to the RB position. You can get better production for less investment, and see across the league.

The Cowboys and Rams with Elliott and Gurley are the example of what not to do.

The Steelers with Bell are the example of what you should do.

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Sydla said:

I'll ask again. You said they are the 29th OL. Where is this stat? I looked and couldn't find it.

I looked at Football Outsiders, and in adjusted line yards, their primary OL run stat, the Cowboys were rated 7th. If you look at generic stats like rushing yards per game, etc, their OL is middle of the pack, or slightly higher. A couple weeks ago, the Cowboys OL was ranked, 13th in run blocking, by Next Gen stats.

So what stat are you citing that has them 29th? Is it an updated Next Gen stat? PFF?

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Sydla said:

We do not have plenty of cap space. It's ironic that you call other people ignorant about the cap but then say ignorant things.

You can only "massage" the cap to an extent before the bill comes due at some point. Some of you act like if you massage the cap/contracts it's like free money that you never have to pay back. That's false. "Massaging" the cap largely means restructuring contracts but all that means is that instead of taking cap hits NOW you are pushing them into the future. They don't disappear, they have to get accounted for eventually.

The Cowboys aren't in dire cap straights, but they aren't flush with cap space either. Especially if the cap goes down in 2021 like it likely will due to decreased revenues. They'll be able to create a bit of space with some smart restructures, but the reality is they won't be dripping with cap space to be really active in FA.

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