Cooper’s on pace for a career high

RonnieT24 · Dec 4, 2020

buybuydandavis said:
Pretty consistent 3+ yard separation for TO on the TD passes. Obviously a biased sample, but damn.

At his peak T.O. was an absolute physical beast.. He was a slightly less polished version of Julio Jones but with much more of a killer instinct. His problem was between his ears. Dude couldn't get out of his own way. Was always at odds with his QB and his coaches at every stop. Maybe that edge was what drove him to be great but it made him a first class jerk ... I watched that video of him and Tyreke Hill and Chad Johnson a few weeks ago and it's clear that with T.O. age has not changed him one bit. He's still an egotistical prick. He probably still has the physical ability to play in the NFL at 40+ but no team would ever touch him.

starfan1 · Dec 4, 2020

RonnieT24 said:
At his peak T.O. was an absolute physical beast.. He was a slightly less polished version of Julio Jones but with much more of a killer instinct. His problem was between his ears. Dude couldn't get out of his own way. Was always at odds with his QB and his coaches at every stop. Maybe that edge was what drove him to be great but it made him a first class jerk ... I watched that video of him and Tyreke Hill and Chad Johnson a few weeks ago and it's clear that with T.O. age has not changed him one bit. He's still an egotistical prick. He probably still has the physical ability to play in the NFL at 40+ but no team would ever touch him.

dude was an absolute monster your post is spot on. I couldnt stand him except on Sunday

RonnieT24 · Dec 4, 2020

buybuydandavis said:
SB winners don't have top priced WRs.

You can't pay everyone.

I'm pretty sure Tyreke Hill (17.7 million) and Sammy Watkins (15.8 million ) would beg to differ. Both of them are in the top 5 highest paid receivers in the game at 3 and 5. Alshon Jeffrey at 15.6 million is #6. You may recall he plays for a team that won a Super Bowl as well. And the Pats didn't exactly skimp on the contracts they gave Edelman and Gronk. Edelman signed his deal a while back but as I recall when he signed it his 10 million a year was in the top 10 among wideouts. You may wish to rethink your hypothesis.

RonnieT24 · Dec 4, 2020

starfan1 said:
dude was an absolute monster your post is spot on. I couldnt stand him except on Sunday

Dude you have no idea. T.O. is one athlete who is probably even worse than his reputation. When I lived in the Bay Area and he played for the Niners I would probably see him about town once or twice a year. Every time I saw him dude was being a jerk to somebody.. Whether it was a waiter at a restaurant, a valet parking his car, a cashier or clerk at a store, or just some random chick he was trying to pick up. He must have always been that way because a guy with his talent surely should have played somewhere better than Tennessee Chattanooga? His high school coach probably had to go begging for some school to give him a chance.. Either that or he was a jerk to his high school and the guy refused to advocate for him at all which scared away all the big boys.

Motorola · Dec 4, 2020

If those numbers are met, it would be a bright spot in an otherwise dismal season so far.

ScipioCowboy · Dec 4, 2020

I, too, am setting a career high: Number of games turned off before they’re over.

CouchCoach · Dec 4, 2020

Think how much better Cooper would be doing if he gave a damn and wasn't so mopey all the time. Shame he doesn't have all that passion than Bryant has.

buybuydandavis · Dec 4, 2020

RonnieT24 said:
I'm pretty sure Tyreke Hill (17.7 million) and Sammy Watkins (15.8 million ) would beg to differ. Both of them are in the top 5 highest paid receivers in the game at 3 and 5. Alshon Jeffrey at 15.6 million is #6. You may recall he plays for a team that won a Super Bowl as well. And the Pats didn't exactly skimp on the contracts they gave Edelman and Gronk. Edelman signed his deal a while back but as I recall when he signed it his 10 million a year was in the top 10 among wideouts. You may wish to rethink your hypothesis.

The context in my mind was whether it's worthwhile to pay top WRs. I think I'm sticking with that theory.

I looked at the HOF Monitor once. Noticed that recent All Pros and even Pro Bowl WRs just weren't winning Championships while they were getting paid.
Tyreek Hill, but that was *before* he's ever had a significant cap hit.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_WR.htm

KC managed to win *despite* wasting a ton on Watkins. Wanna argue that it's great to *waste* money on high priced WRs like Watkins and Jeffries, because that's what brings the Super Bowls? I'm not going with that theory either.

Edelman's contracts are an argument in my favor. Never made even one Pro Bowl. He was never paid elite money. His APY has never even been 8mil.
https://overthecap.com/player/julian-edelman/864/

Gronk was a TE, and a freak. I'd pay a Gronk top money. But he only got top money for a TE. Maxed out at 9mil APY. He was probably underpaid.
https://overthecap.com/player/rob-gronkowski/1239/

2010 All Decade Team - WRs have 0 Championships between them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2010s_All-Decade_Team

Antonio Brown (Pittsburgh Steelers, New England Patriots)
Larry Fitzgerald (Arizona Cardinals)
Calvin Johnson (Detroit Lions)
Julio Jones (Atlanta Falcons)

Also
DeAndre Hopkins - 3 All Pro - 0 Championships

The top WRs who got paid top dollar just don't seem to get rings recently.

Who's the best guy who won a championship *while getting paid*, and was *worth it*?

RonnieT24 · Dec 4, 2020

buybuydandavis said:
The context in my mind was whether it's worthwhile to pay top WRs. I think I'm sticking with that theory.

I looked at the HOF Monitor once. Noticed that recent All Pros and even Pro Bowl WRs just weren't winning Championships while they were getting paid.
Tyreek Hill, but that was *before* he's ever had a significant cap hit.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_WR.htm

KC managed to win *despite* wasting a ton on Watkins. Wanna argue that it's great to *waste* money on high priced WRs like Watkins and Jeffries, because that's what brings the Super Bowls? I'm not going with that theory either.

Edelman's contracts are an argument in my favor. Never made even one Pro Bowl. He was never paid elite money. His APY has never even been 8mil.
https://overthecap.com/player/julian-edelman/864/

Gronk was a TE, and a freak. I'd pay a Gronk top money. But he only got top money for a TE. Maxed out at 9mil APY. He was probably underpaid.
https://overthecap.com/player/rob-gronkowski/1239/

2010 All Decade Team - WRs have 0 Championships between them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2010s_All-Decade_Team

Antonio Brown (Pittsburgh Steelers, New England Patriots)
Larry Fitzgerald (Arizona Cardinals)
Calvin Johnson (Detroit Lions)
Julio Jones (Atlanta Falcons)

Also
DeAndre Hopkins - 3 All Pro - 0 Championships

The top WRs who got paid top dollar just don't seem to get rings recently.

Who's the best guy who won a championship *while getting paid*, and was *worth it*?

The kid in Denver, Demaryius Thomas was being paid pretty good coin when they won wasn't he? I think he was in the second year of his 15 million a year deal when Denver won it all. Julio Jones would have a ring if his coaches didn't turn into absolute morons with a 25 point lead in the Super Bowl. Fitz would have one if the Cardinals defense had been able to protect a lead HE gave them. I can't support the logic of holding it against these guys because their teams have managed to screw up their chances at a ring. Fitz and Julio both did more than enough to help their teams win the damn game.. Other parts of their teams screwed it up for them. Their respective salary cap numbers had nothing to do with why their teams failed to ascend to the mountain top.

Typhus · Dec 4, 2020

CT Dal Fan said:
I still think Cooper is the best route runner in the NFL. If I had to downgrade him for anything it's the fact he's a bit inconsistent. But aside from that he checks all the boxes (route running, speed, explosion; toughness, etc).

Coop isnt inconsistent, but his starting QBs are,, put Coop in GB and he is right there with Adams.
Coop makes every QB the Cowboys throw at him look better than they actually are.
Love this man, and he is a great influence for CD and Gallup,, we have a great trio of WRs, deepest position on this entire roster.
Ive seen it wasted before, and if something doesnt happen soon, its a wasted collection of talent again.

Redball Express · Dec 4, 2020

LucaBrasi said:
i like the way he’s played with 4 different qbs. Still productive

Cooper is not perfect.

Neither is CeeDee.

Nor any of the rest like Zeke or Shultz,etc.

Dak needs to get well and return.

Cooper needs deep routes and lots of looks to get the best from him.

When he is injured..he is less than great but still needs to play to pull coverage away from the others.

We as fans just look for the highlight plays for verification of value.

Usually we are clueless. We just think we know what we are seeing then read what others say and suddenly they think they are enlightened.

We need to go back to our nachos and beer and just shut up and watch.

And keep our fingers off our keyboards more.

RonnieT24 · Dec 4, 2020

Redball Express said:
Cooper is not perfect.

Neither is CeeDee.

Nor any of the rest like Zeke or Shultz,etc.

Dak needs to get well and return.

Cooper needs deep routes and lots of looks to get the best from him.

When he is injured..he is less than great but still needs to play to pull coverage away from the others.

We as fans just look for the highlight plays for verification of value.

Usually we are clueless. We just think we know what we are seeing then read what others say and suddenly they think they are enlightened.

We need to go back to our nachos and beer and just shut up and watch.

And keep our fingers off our keyboards more.

You're not wrong.. But then sometimes it IS fun!

Alexander · Dec 4, 2020

This is why I try to move him if possible.

Feature him the rest of the year and turn him into another Brandin Cooks.

Johnny23 · Dec 4, 2020

RonnieT24 said:
The kid in Denver, Demaryius Thomas was being paid pretty good coin when they won wasn't he? I think he was in the second year of his 15 million a year deal when Denver won it all. Julio Jones would have a ring if his coaches didn't turn into absolute morons with a 25 point lead in the Super Bowl. Fitz would have one if the Cardinals defense had been able to protect a lead HE gave them. I can't support the logic of holding it against these guys because their teams have managed to screw up their chances at a ring. Fitz and Julio both did more than enough to help their teams win the damn game.. Other parts of their teams screwed it up for them. Their respective salary cap numbers had nothing to do with why their teams failed to ascend to the mountain top.

I believe Reggie Wayne and The weirdo Marvin Harrison were the last great wr duos on the level that won in 2006.

buybuydandavis · Dec 5, 2020

RonnieT24 said:
The kid in Denver, Demaryius Thomas was being paid pretty good coin when they won wasn't he? I think he was in the second year of his 15 million a year deal when Denver won it all. Julio Jones would have a ring if his coaches didn't turn into absolute morons with a 25 point lead in the Super Bowl. Fitz would have one if the Cardinals defense had been able to protect a lead HE gave them. I can't support the logic of holding it against these guys because their teams have managed to screw up their chances at a ring. Fitz and Julio both did more than enough to help their teams win the damn game.. Other parts of their teams screwed it up for them. Their respective salary cap numbers had nothing to do with why their teams failed to ascend to the mountain top.

Denver won the SB in 2015 season, Thomas' first year of his new contract. 13.2mil cap hit in 2015. Averaged a little more over three years, then a dead cap hit of 11mil more over two years after he left.
That's the best example I've heard. But that it came in the first year of a contract, with dead money left over.
https://overthecap.com/player/demaryius-thomas/17/

And if we look at the *game*, that was all defense, and Thomas certainly didn't deliver the win. 1 catch on 6 targets for 8 yards.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201602070den.htm

And if we look at his season, it was pretty meh too. First time he didn't make the Pro Bowl in a while. 7.4 ypt that year, although Manning was pretty crappy too, if I recall right, especially by the SB.

Thomas did make the Pro Bowl in 2016, but again, 7.5ypt. Not good. Not elite.

Was his contract a good investment from his performance. Doesn't look like it.

And again, that's the question. If paying huge money to WRs a good investment. Doesn't look like it.

And asserting that cap hits don't matter is to deny the fundamentals of what matters in a capped league.
Maybe the rest of the team doesn't screw up if they have more money to spend on the rest of the team.

RonnieT24 · Dec 6, 2020

buybuydandavis said:
Denver won the SB in 2015 season, Thomas' first year of his new contract. 13.2mil cap hit in 2015. Averaged a little more over three years, then a dead cap hit of 11mil more over two years after he left.
That's the best example I've heard. But that it came in the first year of a contract, with dead money left over.
https://overthecap.com/player/demaryius-thomas/17/

And if we look at the *game*, that was all defense, and Thomas certainly didn't deliver the win. 1 catch on 6 targets for 8 yards.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201602070den.htm

And if we look at his season, it was pretty meh too. First time he didn't make the Pro Bowl in a while. 7.4 ypt that year, although Manning was pretty crappy too, if I recall right, especially by the SB.

Thomas did make the Pro Bowl in 2016, but again, 7.5ypt. Not good. Not elite.

Was his contract a good investment from his performance. Doesn't look like it.

And again, that's the question. If paying huge money to WRs a good investment. Doesn't look like it.

And asserting that cap hits don't matter is to deny the fundamentals of what matters in a capped league.
Maybe the rest of the team doesn't screw up if they have more money to spend on the rest of the team.[/QUOTE]

So are you saying that if Julio was making less money Dan Quinn and Kyle Shanahan would not have had their collective brain fart against New England? Or if Fitz was making less money the Cardinals defense would have held onto the lead he had JUST given them? My philosophy is that paying huge to ANY player is a good investment if he helps you win games. Playmakers help teams win games. Thomas was not going to have a great game in the Super Bowl with Manning throwing the ball because Peyton's arm was shot and the Panthers had a pretty good defense. Wasn't that the season that got Josh Norman paid? Either way it's a pretty good bet Denver doesn't secure HFA and get to that Super Bowl without Thomas' 105 catches and 1300+ yards. And that was with Brock friggin Oesweiler starting 7 games not to mention Manning's arm falling off at mid-season. He helped them win a Super Bowl.. I suspect Mr. Bowlen would consider his contract money well spent. If we win one with Cooper as our #1 I guarantee you Jerry will feel the same way.

Cooper’s on pace for a career high

RonnieT24

Well-Known Member

starfan1

Well-Known Member

RonnieT24

Well-Known Member

RonnieT24

Well-Known Member

Motorola

Well-Known Member

ScipioCowboy

More than meets the eye.

CouchCoach

buybuydandavis

Well-Known Member

RonnieT24

Well-Known Member

Typhus

Captain Catfish

Redball Express

All Aboard!!!

RonnieT24

Well-Known Member

Alexander

What's it going to be then, eh?

Johnny23

Well-Known Member

buybuydandavis

Well-Known Member

RonnieT24

Well-Known Member