Clearly they should of hired a Defensive minded coach

TheMarathonContinues · Dec 9, 2020

Tussinman said:
3 on defense (Jordan, Davis, and Lattimore), 1 of which also made the all-decade team. Also have Davenport whose been a fringe pro bowler the last 2 years and hell even there mid tier starter Malcom Brown would be the 2nd best d-lineman on are roster

Never knew the Giants had an elite defense ? (news to me). I know they have a good influx of young talent like Pepper, McKinney, Lawrence, and Tomlinson.

So basically the Giants could be us if we actually hit on our defensive picks ? There netting legtimate defensive starters while where netting Tacos and Hills.

That's kinda my point, we haven't hit on defensive picks or free agents while other teams are. You can mask issues with scheme I agree but if 8 or 9 of your defensive starters are glorified backups (that Jerry is hyping as stars) then the end result isn't going to be good

Elite defense? I'm trying to get to above average defense first. Then we can talk about elite..give me a DC that can get us to above average.......that's not asking for much. And what defensive picks are they hitting on the defense? Their highest graded guys aren't home grown. As a matter of fact Deandre Baker got cut by them who was their 1st round pick last year lol. You guys are underestimating the imprint of proper coaching. Probably because we haven't had it around here in awhile.

Future · Dec 9, 2020

cowboyec said:
really?
in what way?
no body knows what the hell they are doing on defense...LVE,Jaylon...the secondary.
did they look prepared to you?

This is because they are bad. No amount of preparation changes bad eyes. And if they weren't prepared, they would have gotten blown out from the beginning. It was the opposite.

TheMarathonContinues · Dec 9, 2020

Future said:
The point is that there's no correlation between a defensive HC and a good defense. I mean, there are more cases of defensive head coaches being detrimental to their team - Minny, Sea, Tenn - than there are defensive coaches being successful.

There are 0 examples of offensive coaches with good quarterbacks having a bad offense.

In this league, you have a quarterback and a standalone passing game, or you don't have anything. It's why teams like the Giants, Commanders, Bears, Pats, Broncos aren't going anywhere, no matter how much defense they play.

Yeah that is a good point...how many of those DC's failed as head coaches? Seems like most of them do.

Jarv · Dec 9, 2020

DuncanIso said:
Jerry Jones is 78 years old.

Net worth 8.x Billion USD.

He can and will fire big Mike and his buddies.

he's wasted enough time on them.

Gotta give you props, you made the call on Nolan.

JBS · Dec 9, 2020

pacy said:
I think that was plan A to stay with Garrett and to get a new defensive coordinator. Then the McCarthy interview happened.

Lololol..yeah sure

Tussinman · Dec 9, 2020

rocyaice said:
Elite defense? I'm trying to get to above average defense first

Then why did you list the saints who have an elite defense and multiple all-pro players ?

rocyaice said:
And what defensive picks are they hitting on the defense? Their highest graded guys aren't home grown

Those 4 players I listed where all picked by the Giants and all 4 would be the highest rated player on our defense minus D-law......... ???

rocyaice said:
You guys are underestimating the imprint of proper coaching. Probably because we haven't had it around here in awhile.

Nobody is saying coaching isn't important. Where saying if you have nothing but Jags and miss on 95% of your defensive draft picks (along with missing on all 5 of your free agent defensive pickups) then no amount of schemes and fancy plays will salvage that

The original topic was arguing they need a defense minded coach but lets start with actually fielding legimate NFL talent on the field first or you just wasting that coaches time and career which is a cowboys front office special

JBS · Dec 9, 2020

DuncanIso said:
looking back, what a terrible mistake.

They should have kept Jason. Jerry has to regret things.

Nobody in their right mind thinks Garrett deserved another year..what has transpired this season doesn't change that

jterrell · Dec 9, 2020

rocyaice said:
Tomlin doesn't run the Steelers defense....I can't speak on the Dolphins though. I know he was the Pats DC.

Tomlin came out of the old Dungy 4-3 in Tampa.
He isn't a 3-4 guy and they hired him anyway.
Has worked out OK, lol.

TheMarathonContinues · Dec 9, 2020

Tussinman said:
Then why did you list the saints who have an elite defense and multiple all-pro players ?
Those 4 players I listed where all picked by the Giants and all 4 would be the highest rated player on our defense minus D-law......... ???
Nobody is saying coaching isn't important. Where saying if you have nothing but Jags and miss on 95% of your defensive draft picks (along with missing on all 5 of your free agent defensive pickups) then no amount of schemes and fancy plays will salvage that

The original topic was arguing they need a defense minded coach but lets start with actually fielding legimate NFL talent on the field first or you just wasting that coaches time and career which is a cowboys front office special

I brought up the Saints because they don't have a defensive minded head coach....did you forget?

How can you even know if you have JAGS or not if you don't have good coaches? How many weeks do we have to sit here and watch other teams get stuff out of our players we couldn't? Not even that these guys are all-world but Jihad Ward, Benson Mayowa, Kerry Hyder, Taco Charlton, Charvarius Ward, Jeff Heath........you guys will say these guys are "JAGS" or bums and then you will find a actual better team go out and sign them and put them in their rotation. I guarantee you a real DC will know what to do with Chido Awuzie or Jordan Lewis. Or Demarcus Lawrence. This whole secondary has gotten piss poor coaching ever since they got in the league. Chido, Lewis, Brown....all of them got handicapped playing in a scheme they don't belong in. From Maranelli, to Richard to Nolan.......

pacy · Dec 9, 2020

JBS said:
Lololol..yeah sure

It was really weird that Garrett wouldn't leave the Star in Frisco back then. Everybody else was already being fired if I remember right.

TheMarathonContinues · Dec 9, 2020

JBS said:
Nobody in their right mind thinks Garrett deserved another year..what has transpired this season doesn't change that

If you would've told me this was gonna happen then yeah I would've took another year of Garrett over this. I'd rather have neither but if a gun was pointed to my head..........yeah id' say no to McCarthy if it meant no to Mike Nolan.

TheMarathonContinues · Dec 9, 2020

jterrell said:
Tomlin came out of the old Dungy 4-3 in Tampa.
He isn't a 3-4 guy and they hired him anyway.
Has worked out OK, lol.

I agree. Even though fans seem to hate him for some reason that maybe goes over my head because I'm not a Steeler fan....I'd kill for Tomlin here or someone like him.

buybuydandavis · Dec 9, 2020

baltcowboy said:
It is not to late to hire Eberflus. We could keep Kellen. I would fire MM. I have seen enough.

I would kind of love to see Kellen take over at HC/OC as Boy Genius II.

Circle of Life.

Tussinman · Dec 9, 2020

rocyaice said:
How many weeks do we have to sit here and watch other teams get stuff out of our players we couldn't?

That's actually a fair point assuming the players are at least starter level quality. I remember when there was the mass secondary exodus (Newman, Claiborne, Carr, Scandrick) all 4 of them actually played better the moment the left

I think it's both. Coaching would help but they need to start getting better players as well (too many project/reach players on defense and free agency has been a bust) or they'll just end up wasting the new coaches time

cowboyec · Dec 9, 2020

Future said:
This is because they are bad. No amount of preparation changes bad eyes. And if they weren't prepared, they would have gotten blown out from the beginning. It was the opposite.

tomato...tamato.
i get injuries.
i get pandemic.
but every week they have enough players to field a team.
every week these guys look lost and there isnt any trickeration from the opponent.
some of these guys wouldnt be starting normally.
the way DLaw defends the run...that shows he watches film and is prepared.
but the other guys just look lost.
to me it sure as hell looks like there aint much preperation going on.
but im not there.
but this team under a good coach looks lost.
what.
the.
hell.
are.
they.
doing.
each.
week.

jterrell · Dec 9, 2020

rocyaice said:
I agree. Even though fans seem to hate him for some reason that maybe goes over my head because I'm not a Steeler fan....I'd kill for Tomlin here or someone like him.

It's fans man, lol.
They haven't made a Super Bowl in 10 years and have been spoiled by good play to think they should every 3rd or 4th season at worst.
Ben's health has been an issue and they've missed the playoffs a couple years in a row.

Every NFL fan thinks their team should be the Pats of the last 15 years.

TheMarathonContinues · Dec 9, 2020

Tussinman said:
That's actually a fair point assuming the players are at least starter level quality. I remember when there was the mass secondary exodus (Newman, Claiborne, Carr, Scandrick) all 4 of them actually played better the moment the left

I think it's both. Coaching would help but they need to start getting better players as well (too many project/reach players on defense and free agency has been a bust) or they'll just end up wasting the new coaches time

I agree but some of these guys aren't projects. They couldn't get anything out of Everson Griffen. Poe I will give them they just screwed up there. Poor evaluation. But Everson Griffen was not only not a fit but he was played out of position the minute he got here.

I should never see Dorance Armstrong or Antawn Woods playing coverage on defense. NEVER.

jterrell · Dec 9, 2020

cowboyec said:
tomato...tamato.
i get injuries.
i get pandemic.
but every week they have enough players to field a team.
every week these guys look lost and there isnt any trickeration from the opponent.
some of these guys wouldnt be starting normally.
the way DLaw defends the run...that shows he watches film and is prepared.
but the other guys just look lost.
to me it sure as hell looks like there aint much preperation going on.
but im not there.
but this team under a good coach looks lost.
what.
the.
hell.
are.
they.
doing.
each.
week.

This team has definitely looked poorly prepared and utterly clueless but if you watch much NFL it has been basically trash all year.
Teams just so so bad right now.
Lack of off-season prep, lack of pre-season, lack of practice.
It's just been about getting through it each week and collecting checks.

But again it doesn't matter what happens this team isn't firing MM after one year.
He'll be back and we can start a watch on him next year if things don't improve.
I am definitely hopeful he makes some staff changes.

cowboyec · Dec 9, 2020

jterrell said:
This team has definitely looked poorly prepared and utterly clueless but if you watch much NFL it has been basically trash all year.
Teams just so so bad right now.
Lack of off-season prep, lack of pre-season, lack of practice.
It's just been about getting through it each week and collecting checks.

But again it doesn't matter what happens this team isn't firing MM after one year.
He'll be back and we can start a watch on him next year if things don't improve.
I am definitely hopeful he makes some staff changes.

i agree.
i think alot of this stuff gets fixed with a normal off-season.
and im not cheerleading for mass firings.
i like mccarthy.
im just surprised at how this team looks each week.
they know whats coming and can't seem to do anything to stop it.
if the scheme isnt working...change the scheme.
nolan calls the right plays and these guys just look lost.
Jaylon...LVE...Jourdan Lewis....they look worse...like they are regressing.
cant keep firing coaches.
not enough draft picks to fix it all.
i have no clue what will.
except maybe a normal off season.

CowboyRoy · Dec 9, 2020

stiletto said:
I think the problem is both. There is a void in overall talent but not ALL of the defensive players can be this bad. LVE was a good player, he is blowing assignments like mad. We know some have always been worthless but still. Even Sean Lee looks lost. If all the students fail a test, sorry it really is the teacher....Nolan has to go.

Your letting the players off the hook by blaming coaching. And Im sure coaching is an issue. Having 3 weeks to install a new scheme where most of the players suck or dont match your scheme is not easy.

Not rocket science. Make the read, make the tackle. Watching these clowns take bad angles, be out of position, and whiff on tackles has nothing to do with coaching. They were doing the same thing for Marinelli. When its the same players in multiple coaches with multiple schemes, then its the players.

Clearly they should of hired a Defensive minded coach

Well-Known Member

Intramural Legend

Well-Known Member

Loud pipes saves lives.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Penguinite

Well-Known Member

82 WITTEN 82

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Penguinite

Well-Known Member

Penguinite

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member