Understand no team is running base 4-3 or 3-4 anymore

Parcells4Life

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Thread after thread debates about if they need to go to a base 3-4 or 4-3 look. McCarthy was right when he said at his opening PC the league is 80% nickel which is 4-2-5. There’s different ways you can make the 4-2-5 look with a 2-point stance, 3-point stance or amoeba defense like Jets and Patriots did in the 2000s.

But no team is going to base it’s identity off a pure 4-3 or 3-4 anymore. It only matters for 10-15% of snaps. Against heavy run teams like Ravens and 49ers defenses scheme up 5-2 looks for that week.
 
JayFord

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The issue with our base 425 was it was run even when teams didnt have a 3rd receiver in which makes its bad against the run because youre down a LB and have to bring up a safety in a LB spot

and we need to run a base 43 as a concept then switch it to nickel when it calls for it...
 
Parcells4Life

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JayFord said:
The issue with our base 425 was it was run even when teams didnt have a 3rd receiver in which makes its bad against the run because youre down a LB and have to bring up a safety in a LB spot

and we need to run a base 43 as a concept then switch it to nickel when it calls for it...
Click to expand...
They ran plenty of 5-2 when teams didn’t have a 3rd WR. Watch the Browns game. They tried every defense under the sun. But if players aren’t good enough, scheme doesn’t matter.
 
Oz-of-Cowboy-Country

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Parcells4Life said:
Thread after thread debates about if they need to go to a base 3-4 or 4-3 look. McCarthy was right when he said at his opening PC the league is 80% nickel which is 4-2-5. There’s different ways you can make the 4-2-5 look with a 2-point stance, 3-point stance or amoeba defense like Jets and Patriots did in the 2000s.

But no team is going to base it’s identity off a pure 4-3 or 3-4 anymore. It only matters for 10-15% of snaps. Against heavy run teams like Ravens and 49ers defenses scheme up 5-2 looks for that week.
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Have you called every head coach to confirm your theory or are you just guessing?
 
Haimerej

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I think you're interpreting, "base," to mean, "most often used." Sure, teams run a lot of 11 personnel and defenses generally counter with a nickel package, but at some point there's going to be 2 RBs or 2 TEs and the defense will take that 5th CB off the field. When they do that, they're either 3-4 or 4-3.
 
Dak_Attack_09

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Parcells4Life said:
Thread after thread debates about if they need to go to a base 3-4 or 4-3 look. McCarthy was right when he said at his opening PC the league is 80% nickel which is 4-2-5. There’s different ways you can make the 4-2-5 look with a 2-point stance, 3-point stance or amoeba defense like Jets and Patriots did in the 2000s.

But no team is going to base it’s identity off a pure 4-3 or 3-4 anymore. It only matters for 10-15% of snaps. Against heavy run teams like Ravens and 49ers defenses scheme up 5-2 looks for that week.
Click to expand...



This is a lie.
 
Whyjerry

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JayFord said:
The issue with our base 425 was it was run even when teams didnt have a 3rd receiver in which makes its bad against the run because youre down a LB and have to bring up a safety in a LB spot

and we need to run a base 43 as a concept then switch it to nickel when it calls for it...
Click to expand...

Good defenses need a push up the middle. Quality DTs that can defend the run and collapse the pocket. Dallas hasn’t had that in years. LBs that are willing to engage and shed blockers. We don’t have that for sure. It’s the middle. Always a problem.
 
MyFairLady

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We would run nickel at the ends of games when teams are trying to run out the clock and we would get trampled. It was incredible.
 

Ranched

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Parcells4Life said:
But no team is going to base it’s identity off a pure 4-3 or 3-4 anymore.
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A lot of credit for popularizing the 3-4 is most likely due to the success the Steelers have had over the years they have utilized it.

As of this year, there are 17 NFL teams that operate out of a 3-4 base defense, & only 15 that operate out of a 4-3.
 
gjkoeppen

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Parcells4Life said:
They ran plenty of 5-2 when teams didn’t have a 3rd WR. Watch the Browns game. They tried every defense under the sun. But if players aren’t good enough, scheme doesn’t matter.
Click to expand...





There are pros and cons with every alignment. You're under the impression that a 5-2 is the ultimate defense to stop the run. Here's a reason why that's not necessarily right. In a 4-3 defense on running plays the LB's fill gaps that hopefully limits runs. In 5-2 with 5 linemen whichever side the offense runs the ball there is one less LB to fill holes because of the 5th lineman is down on the opposite side out of the play. Some say the best run defense is the 3-4 with a NT holding up two blockers and then having the 4 LB's filling all the gaps. Here's one more thought for you. Your thinking makes it sound like the slot receiver was just invented in the past few years but guess what, there was a time when teams ran a 4-3 defense even when there was a slot in the game. The Cowboys used a safety, Darren Woodson to cover the slot receiver and here's a shocker for you, the Cowboys won 3 Super Bowls doing that.
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fivetwos

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It can be called whatever, but the big difference I see is what you're asking your tackles to do....and it sure looked to me like they badly needed better 1tech play...coupled with the idea that dudes like DLaw were standing up plenty.....certainly showed what appeared to be a version of the 34.

But yep, I can see how trams need to play the extra DB quite often.

Basically defenses have to change with the times, and if the OP point is there's no more traditional 34 or 43....fine.

Dallas needs better play at the LOS. Period. Name the defense whatever you want.
 
cowboyec

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i'm for whatever the hell will stop the run.

for whats its worth...i'm a 4-3 guy.
its what i'm used to.
 
Dak_Attack_09

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USArmyVet said:
Anything more to add other then that? Counter his position with statistics would help your position.
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The issue with whole 4-3 vs 3-4 is the DL and weather there are down linemen like a true 4-3 or that Nolan b.s. of halfway there of forcing square peg Lawerence a down linemen into OLB/End (round hole).

4-3 - there are always 4 DL at LOS. Two DTs one that is strong & athletic to command double team like Haloti Nagata and a 3 Tech similar to McCoy to pass rush with stunts/ bull rush.
 
fivetwos

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I used to love Capers 34. Never knew who was rushing.

I've since learned youd better have the right players to run whatever it is you're running...

And if the 2020 Cowboys wasn't a prime example of that I don't know what was.
 
Cowboyny

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Haimerej said:
I think you're interpreting, "base," to mean, "most often used." Sure, teams run a lot of 11 personnel and defenses generally counter with a nickel package, but at some point there's going to be 2 RBs or 2 TEs and the defense will take that 5th CB off the field. When they do that, they're either 3-4 or 4-3.
Click to expand...

This is correct. A base defense is the starting point. It's used to counter run personnel. When a team brings in an extra receiver, defenses counter with their nickel defense which takes out a linebacker and replaces him with the nickel corner. The sub-packages such as the nickel defense are used the most in today's game due to the league being more of a pass first league.
 
Cowboyny

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Parcells4Life said:
Thread after thread debates about if they need to go to a base 3-4 or 4-3 look. McCarthy was right when he said at his opening PC the league is 80% nickel which is 4-2-5. There’s different ways you can make the 4-2-5 look with a 2-point stance, 3-point stance or amoeba defense like Jets and Patriots did in the 2000s.

But no team is going to base it’s identity off a pure 4-3 or 3-4 anymore. It only matters for 10-15% of snaps. Against heavy run teams like Ravens and 49ers defenses scheme up 5-2 looks for that week.
Click to expand...

It's more about scheme alignments/concepts then anything else. You are right, teams are in nickel personnel 80% of the time, which leaves 6 in the box. How you use those 6 is what is different about every scheme.
 
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