Over-valuing star ex-players ability to coach in the NFL

Bobhaze

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We see it all the time. Calls for star ex-players like Tony Romo, Jason Witten, DeMarcus Ware and others to be immediately anointed a high level coaching position like a coordinator or even head coach is a really bad idea. It has happened occasionally in sports like basketball and baseball, but even in those sports it is rare. It is very rare in football.

Why? The reasons are many, starting with a fundamental lack of understanding of how difficult it is to be an effective head coach or coordinator in the NFL:
  • The number of head coaches with NFL playing experience has decreased dramatically in the past 30 years. Even the few successful head coaches who have won big, almost all were never NFL stars. Examples-
    • Tom Landry, Tom Flores, Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher, and Doug Pederson are all examples of coaches who won SBs after playing in the NFL but none of them were stars. Mike Ditka is a rare example of a HOF player who won a SB as a HC.
    • Only 9 head coaches in the NFL in 2020 ever played a down in the NFL.
    • Many NFL players say star players are usually not as good as coaches because their talent and effectiveness came easier to them than most players and it’s hard for them to teach. Bob Lily once said he knew he could never be a coach. Coaching and playing are totally different skill sets.
  • The degree of difficulty in being an NFL head coach or coordinator are much greater than most fans understand. Being a coordinator requires a ton of organizational skills to coordinate film study and game preparation plans with a number of people each week. In fact, those skills for success are much different than success as a player.
The point I’m making is the calls for a former star player to immediately skip the process of coaching experience and become a coordinator or head coach are foolish. It’s pretty clear that in the history of NFL coaching, being a star player is not an indicator of coaching ability or success.
 
TwoCentPlain

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@Bobhaze Is it also a bad idea to anoint ex-star players as GMs? Some people here think Aikman would be a good GM. I don’t.

I have worked with some good fellow engineers. While they might be awesome engineers, they would make absolutely horrible supervisors and managers. As an engineer, I believe I have the ability to be a good manager (many of my coworkers suggest I become a supervisor/manager), I want nothing to do with babysitting employees and playing management games (using people, lies, evading the truth, evaluating performance, etc.). For an extra 10%, no way. Now if I had no job and needed money, I would do it.

Strangely, I have met some average to poor engineers who make decent and good supervisors and managers.

So the answer seems to be maybe, who knows, not necessarily, and it depends.
 
Bobhaze

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ninja said:
@Bobhaze Is it also a bad idea to anoint ex-star players as GMs? Some people here think Aikman would be a good GM. I don’t.

I have worked with some good fellow engineers. While they might be awesome engineers, they would make absolutely horrible supervisors and managers. As an engineer, I believe I have the ability to be a good manager (many of my coworkers suggest I become a supervisor/manager), I want nothing to do with babysitting employees and playing management games (using people, lies, evading the truth, evaluating performance, etc.). For an extra 10%, no way. Now if I had no job and needed money, I would do it.

Strangely, I have met some average to poor engineers who make decent and good supervisors and managers.

So the answer seems to be maybe, who knows, not necessarily, and it depends.
Click to expand...
Being a GM may be different. Bal GM Ozzie Newsome (one of the best in the business) SF GM John Lynch, and former Den GM John Elway are examples of Star players who have been great GMs. I think being a GM is much different than coaching. And I think Aikman would make a good GM for what it’s worth.
 
Hennessy_King

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Bobhaze said:
We see it all the time. Calls for star ex-players like Tony Romo, Jason Witten, DeMarcus Ware and others to be immediately anointed a high level coaching position like a coordinator or even head coach is a really bad idea. It has happened occasionally in sports like basketball and baseball, but even in those sports it is rare. It is very rare in football.

Why? The reasons are many, starting with a fundamental lack of understanding of how difficult it is to be an effective head coach or coordinator in the NFL:
  • The number of head coaches with NFL playing experience has decreased dramatically in the past 30 years. Even the few successful head coaches who have won big, almost all were never NFL stars. Examples-
    • Tom Landry, Tom Flores, Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher, and Doug Pederson are all examples of coaches who won SBs after playing in the NFL but none of them were stars. Mike Ditka is a rare example of a HOF player who won a SB as a HC.
    • Only 9 head coaches in the NFL in 2020 ever played a down in the NFL.
    • Many NFL players say star players are usually not as good as coaches because their talent and effectiveness came easier to them than most players and it’s hard for them to teach. Bob Lily once said he knew he could never be a coach. Coaching and playing are totally different skill sets.
  • The degree of difficulty in being an NFL head coach or coordinator are much greater than most fans understand. Being a coordinator requires a ton of organizational skills to coordinate film study and game preparation plans with a number of people each week. In fact, those skills for success are much different than success as a player.
The point I’m making is the calls for a former star player to immediately skip the process of coaching experience and become a coordinator or head coach are foolish. It’s pretty clear that in the history of NFL coaching, being a star player is not an indicator of coaching ability or success.
Click to expand...
My brooklyn nets are experiencing this nonsense right now with steve nash. I hated the hire
 
leeblair

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Bobhaze said:
We see it all the time. Calls for star ex-players like Tony Romo, Jason Witten, DeMarcus Ware and others to be immediately anointed a high level coaching position like a coordinator or even head coach is a really bad idea. It has happened occasionally in sports like basketball and baseball, but even in those sports it is rare. It is very rare in football.

Why? The reasons are many, starting with a fundamental lack of understanding of how difficult it is to be an effective head coach or coordinator in the NFL:
  • The number of head coaches with NFL playing experience has decreased dramatically in the past 30 years. Even the few successful head coaches who have won big, almost all were never NFL stars. Examples-
    • Tom Landry, Tom Flores, Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher, and Doug Pederson are all examples of coaches who won SBs after playing in the NFL but none of them were stars. Mike Ditka is a rare example of a HOF player who won a SB as a HC.
    • Only 9 head coaches in the NFL in 2020 ever played a down in the NFL.
    • Many NFL players say star players are usually not as good as coaches because their talent and effectiveness came easier to them than most players and it’s hard for them to teach. Bob Lily once said he knew he could never be a coach. Coaching and playing are totally different skill sets.
  • The degree of difficulty in being an NFL head coach or coordinator are much greater than most fans understand. Being a coordinator requires a ton of organizational skills to coordinate film study and game preparation plans with a number of people each week. In fact, those skills for success are much different than success as a player.
The point I’m making is the calls for a former star player to immediately skip the process of coaching experience and become a coordinator or head coach are foolish. It’s pretty clear that in the history of NFL coaching, being a star player is not an indicator of coaching ability or success.
Click to expand...
Excellent job.
The NFL'S tendency to embrace nepotism and to hire from within is one of the reasons for its declining performance and popularity.
The so-called "professionals" of the NFL overlook the human factor when they embrace these ideologies. They fail to understand that leadership must be accompanied by the ability to teach, along with other qualities that can't simply be taught.
Every NFL owner should read your post.
 
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Motorola

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Bobhaze said:
We see it all the time. Calls for star ex-players like Tony Romo, Jason Witten, DeMarcus Ware and others to be immediately anointed a high level coaching position like a coordinator or even head coach is a really bad idea. It has happened occasionally in sports like basketball and baseball, but even in those sports it is rare. It is very rare in football.

Why? The reasons are many, starting with a fundamental lack of understanding of how difficult it is to be an effective head coach or coordinator in the NFL:
  • The number of head coaches with NFL playing experience has decreased dramatically in the past 30 years. Even the few successful head coaches who have won big, almost all were never NFL stars. Examples-
    • Tom Landry, Tom Flores, Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher, and Doug Pederson are all examples of coaches who won SBs after playing in the NFL but none of them were stars. Mike Ditka is a rare example of a HOF player who won a SB as a HC.
    • Only 9 head coaches in the NFL in 2020 ever played a down in the NFL.
    • Many NFL players say star players are usually not as good as coaches because their talent and effectiveness came easier to them than most players and it’s hard for them to teach. Bob Lily once said he knew he could never be a coach. Coaching and playing are totally different skill sets.
  • The degree of difficulty in being an NFL head coach or coordinator are much greater than most fans understand. Being a coordinator requires a ton of organizational skills to coordinate film study and game preparation plans with a number of people each week. In fact, those skills for success are much different than success as a player.
The point I’m making is the calls for a former star player to immediately skip the process of coaching experience and become a coordinator or head coach are foolish. It’s pretty clear that in the history of NFL coaching, being a star player is not an indicator of coaching ability or success.
Click to expand...
Different sport -- but no greater example than the late Tommy Lasorda.
Was a pitcher for three years, two with the Brooklyn Dodgers, one with the Kansas City Athletics.
His record____0-4, 6.48 ERA, 37 strikeouts
But he is hailed as one of the best evaulators of talent, plus developing and motivating minor league players to improve and advance to MLB.
 
Typhus

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Bobhaze said:
We see it all the time. Calls for star ex-players like Tony Romo, Jason Witten, DeMarcus Ware and others to be immediately anointed a high level coaching position like a coordinator or even head coach is a really bad idea. It has happened occasionally in sports like basketball and baseball, but even in those sports it is rare. It is very rare in football.

Why? The reasons are many, starting with a fundamental lack of understanding of how difficult it is to be an effective head coach or coordinator in the NFL:
  • The number of head coaches with NFL playing experience has decreased dramatically in the past 30 years. Even the few successful head coaches who have won big, almost all were never NFL stars. Examples-
    • Tom Landry, Tom Flores, Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher, and Doug Pederson are all examples of coaches who won SBs after playing in the NFL but none of them were stars. Mike Ditka is a rare example of a HOF player who won a SB as a HC.
    • Only 9 head coaches in the NFL in 2020 ever played a down in the NFL.
    • Many NFL players say star players are usually not as good as coaches because their talent and effectiveness came easier to them than most players and it’s hard for them to teach. Bob Lily once said he knew he could never be a coach. Coaching and playing are totally different skill sets.
  • The degree of difficulty in being an NFL head coach or coordinator are much greater than most fans understand. Being a coordinator requires a ton of organizational skills to coordinate film study and game preparation plans with a number of people each week. In fact, those skills for success are much different than success as a player.
The point I’m making is the calls for a former star player to immediately skip the process of coaching experience and become a coordinator or head coach are foolish. It’s pretty clear that in the history of NFL coaching, being a star player is not an indicator of coaching ability or success.
Click to expand...
I will always believe that Mark Step would have been a great OL Coach,, but thats just me
 
Jake

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Bobhaze said:
We see it all the time. Calls for star ex-players like Tony Romo, Jason Witten, DeMarcus Ware and others to be immediately anointed a high level coaching position like a coordinator or even head coach is a really bad idea. It has happened occasionally in sports like basketball and baseball, but even in those sports it is rare. It is very rare in football.

Why? The reasons are many, starting with a fundamental lack of understanding of how difficult it is to be an effective head coach or coordinator in the NFL:
  • The number of head coaches with NFL playing experience has decreased dramatically in the past 30 years. Even the few successful head coaches who have won big, almost all were never NFL stars. Examples-
    • Tom Landry, Tom Flores, Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher, and Doug Pederson are all examples of coaches who won SBs after playing in the NFL but none of them were stars. Mike Ditka is a rare example of a HOF player who won a SB as a HC.
    • Only 9 head coaches in the NFL in 2020 ever played a down in the NFL.
    • Many NFL players say star players are usually not as good as coaches because their talent and effectiveness came easier to them than most players and it’s hard for them to teach. Bob Lily once said he knew he could never be a coach. Coaching and playing are totally different skill sets.
  • The degree of difficulty in being an NFL head coach or coordinator are much greater than most fans understand. Being a coordinator requires a ton of organizational skills to coordinate film study and game preparation plans with a number of people each week. In fact, those skills for success are much different than success as a player.
The point I’m making is the calls for a former star player to immediately skip the process of coaching experience and become a coordinator or head coach are foolish. It’s pretty clear that in the history of NFL coaching, being a star player is not an indicator of coaching ability or success.
Click to expand...

Coaching and playing are entirely different skill sets. I don't think one has much to do with the other.

But you're right, some people just assume a good player will be a good coach.

I think it is really difficult for a great player to coach. They can't relate to guys who aren't at their talent level. It's like asking a great singer to teach me to sing.
 
Bobhaze

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Jake said:
Coaching and playing are entirely different skill sets. I don't think one has much to do with the other.

But you're right, some people just assume a good player will be a good coach.

I think it is really difficult for a great player to coach. They can't relate to guys who aren't at their talent level. It's like asking a great singer to teach me to sing.
Click to expand...
Most people have no idea how hard it is to be an effective coach at any level, but especially in the NFL. The way coaches are portrayed in the movies and even the way we cover them on TV make people think it’s all about rahrah stuff or how much they yell, etc.

Being a good NFL coach requires great management skills. Organization, attention to detail, creativity, innovation, motivation, insight, are just some of the skills requisite to effective coaching at this level. So much different than sitting in a TV booth calling out what play is coming next.
 
Diehardblues

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Bobhaze said:
We see it all the time. Calls for star ex-players like Tony Romo, Jason Witten, DeMarcus Ware and others to be immediately anointed a high level coaching position like a coordinator or even head coach is a really bad idea. It has happened occasionally in sports like basketball and baseball, but even in those sports it is rare. It is very rare in football.

Why? The reasons are many, starting with a fundamental lack of understanding of how difficult it is to be an effective head coach or coordinator in the NFL:
  • The number of head coaches with NFL playing experience has decreased dramatically in the past 30 years. Even the few successful head coaches who have won big, almost all were never NFL stars. Examples-
    • Tom Landry, Tom Flores, Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher, and Doug Pederson are all examples of coaches who won SBs after playing in the NFL but none of them were stars. Mike Ditka is a rare example of a HOF player who won a SB as a HC.
    • Only 9 head coaches in the NFL in 2020 ever played a down in the NFL.
    • Many NFL players say star players are usually not as good as coaches because their talent and effectiveness came easier to them than most players and it’s hard for them to teach. Bob Lily once said he knew he could never be a coach. Coaching and playing are totally different skill sets.
  • The degree of difficulty in being an NFL head coach or coordinator are much greater than most fans understand. Being a coordinator requires a ton of organizational skills to coordinate film study and game preparation plans with a number of people each week. In fact, those skills for success are much different than success as a player.
The point I’m making is the calls for a former star player to immediately skip the process of coaching experience and become a coordinator or head coach are foolish. It’s pretty clear that in the history of NFL coaching, being a star player is not an indicator of coaching ability or success.
Click to expand...
Generally speaking the more talented players usually don’t make the best coaches . Most of the successful HC’s weren’t great players. They are more hard working over achiever lunch pale carrier types.
 
12+88=7

12+88=7

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Just an example.

Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, not good GMs.

Danny Ainge, might be the best GM in all sports.

I believe great players rarely make for good talent evaluatiors.
 
cern

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Bobhaze said:
We see it all the time. Calls for star ex-players like Tony Romo, Jason Witten, DeMarcus Ware and others to be immediately anointed a high level coaching position like a coordinator or even head coach is a really bad idea. It has happened occasionally in sports like basketball and baseball, but even in those sports it is rare. It is very rare in football.

Why? The reasons are many, starting with a fundamental lack of understanding of how difficult it is to be an effective head coach or coordinator in the NFL:
  • The number of head coaches with NFL playing experience has decreased dramatically in the past 30 years. Even the few successful head coaches who have won big, almost all were never NFL stars. Examples-
    • Tom Landry, Tom Flores, Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher, and Doug Pederson are all examples of coaches who won SBs after playing in the NFL but none of them were stars. Mike Ditka is a rare example of a HOF player who won a SB as a HC.
    • Only 9 head coaches in the NFL in 2020 ever played a down in the NFL.
    • Many NFL players say star players are usually not as good as coaches because their talent and effectiveness came easier to them than most players and it’s hard for them to teach. Bob Lily once said he knew he could never be a coach. Coaching and playing are totally different skill sets.
  • The degree of difficulty in being an NFL head coach or coordinator are much greater than most fans understand. Being a coordinator requires a ton of organizational skills to coordinate film study and game preparation plans with a number of people each week. In fact, those skills for success are much different than success as a player.
The point I’m making is the calls for a former star player to immediately skip the process of coaching experience and become a coordinator or head coach are foolish. It’s pretty clear that in the history of NFL coaching, being a star player is not an indicator of coaching ability or success.
Click to expand...
Good post, bob. Good coaching is a mental exercise. Having been a good player is irrelevant.
 
Diehardblues

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12+88=7 said:
Just an example.

Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, not good GMs.

Danny Ainge, might be the best GM in all sports.

I believe great players rarely make for good talent evaluatiors.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure if it’s as much poor talent evaluators.

Greater talent things just come naturally easier to them . They didn’t have to be over achievers. Instead trying to meet their potential.

Coaching requires a tremendous work ethic.
 
Jake

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Bobhaze said:
Most people have no idea how hard it is to be an effective coach at any level, but especially in the NFL. The way coaches are portrayed in the movies and even the way we cover them on TV make people think it’s all about rahrah stuff or how much they yell, etc.

Being a good NFL coach requires great management skills. Organization, attention to detail, creativity, innovation, motivation, insight, are just some of the skills requisite to effective coaching at this level. So much different than sitting in a TV booth calling out what play is coming next.
Click to expand...

Cracks me up when people question what a head coach does if he isn't the play caller. Like he just sits in his office and twiddles his thumbs. :muttley:

They have to oversee all of the position coaches, and manage about 100 egos, basically year round. We only see what they do for 3 hours on Sunday.
 
Motorola

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Great \ good \ average \ borderline \ never a player.
What should be required of every person to be in the highest position of professional and collegiate sports--- is that he or she work their way up through lower level positions and be successful --- and thus worthy of a promotion or selection to the head of a team.
 
acr731

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Bobhaze said:
We see it all the time. Calls for star ex-players like Tony Romo, Jason Witten, DeMarcus Ware and others to be immediately anointed a high level coaching position like a coordinator or even head coach is a really bad idea. It has happened occasionally in sports like basketball and baseball, but even in those sports it is rare. It is very rare in football.

Why? The reasons are many, starting with a fundamental lack of understanding of how difficult it is to be an effective head coach or coordinator in the NFL:
  • The number of head coaches with NFL playing experience has decreased dramatically in the past 30 years. Even the few successful head coaches who have won big, almost all were never NFL stars. Examples-
    • Tom Landry, Tom Flores, Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher, and Doug Pederson are all examples of coaches who won SBs after playing in the NFL but none of them were stars. Mike Ditka is a rare example of a HOF player who won a SB as a HC.
    • Only 9 head coaches in the NFL in 2020 ever played a down in the NFL.
    • Many NFL players say star players are usually not as good as coaches because their talent and effectiveness came easier to them than most players and it’s hard for them to teach. Bob Lily once said he knew he could never be a coach. Coaching and playing are totally different skill sets.
  • The degree of difficulty in being an NFL head coach or coordinator are much greater than most fans understand. Being a coordinator requires a ton of organizational skills to coordinate film study and game preparation plans with a number of people each week. In fact, those skills for success are much different than success as a player.
The point I’m making is the calls for a former star player to immediately skip the process of coaching experience and become a coordinator or head coach are foolish. It’s pretty clear that in the history of NFL coaching, being a star player is not an indicator of coaching ability or success.
Click to expand...


I guess it was OK for Moore to get an OC gig after his stellar NFL career. Dude played for 3 seasons and made it into a whopping 3 games.

If its a mistake to move former star players into a position like OC, what does it say about Jerry believing Moore was qualified for that spot?
 
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Bobhaze

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