Lessons in winning

AmariChill said:

we need to do the same then. We haven’t had success as good as theirs in years

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Really? They just won their first playoff game in decades, a Wild Card game where they were the Wild Card team. The Cowboys have won their Division 3 out if the last 7 years and won the Wild Card game in 2 of those years and a bye the other year. Obviously, everyone wants more than that, but to say the Browns have had more success than the Cowboys in years is just plain wrong. If you want to say you think the Browns’ future is brighter, fine. But that’s purely subjective at this point.

Blitzen said:

They could have gotten the same type of talent and results, no matter where they drafted (same talented players are drafted every year in all the rounds). Accident, chance, team chemistry, and a winning attitude allowed them to mold Myles Garrett and Baker Mayfield into semi decent players.

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Garrett: 2017 draft overall no. 1 pick
Mayfield: 2018 draft overall no. 1 pick
'Blitzen' is still getting blitzed after the holidays

jazzcat22 said:

It was because 3 or 4 years ago as they accumulated as many draft picks, then traded down, accumulated more draft picks. Then used all those draft picks. With as many as they had, it was like Jimmy having the Vikings trade from Walker. And they used them correctly. The had to hit on players with that many picks.

I said at the end of the 2017 season, and got blasted for it, that the Browns were closer to a SB than we were. If they beat KC, that puts them close as they will get to the AFCCG.

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Please jazzcat - research your CZ postings and repost that "prediction"

2017 season___ Browns 0-16, Cowboys 9-7
2018 Season___Browns 7-8-1, Cowboys 10-6, NFC East Champions, Wildcard round winner, division round game
2019 season___Brown's 6-10, Cowboys 8-8

FuzzyLumpkins said:

Landry was able to present an image and projected onto his team and the audience that was not necessarily the truth.

That doesn't work anymore and the day of cell phones and instant communication.

Hollywood Henderson and Harvey Martin would have been outed for the people that they were.

Ultimately The Landry was pragmatic and went for what worked and I think that if he thought he could get a competitive advantage from tanking he would have done it but he would have never have done it in such a way that the public or his team would know just like he did with everything else.

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You're the first person I've heard or read that doubts that Landry didn't have complete and total control of the team. And it wouldn't have made any difference if there were cell phones or instant communications back then or not. The overall culture in society back then was different. Also there was a no nonsense commissioner Pete Rozelle who would have taken action if players back then did what players do today off the field. If you get 99 other people that followed coach Landry and asked if he would ever deliberately tank, you would be the only one that would think that which proves that you really don't know the man and Coach Tom Landry. You may have tanking losing mentality, but Landry never did.
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gjkoeppen said:

You're the first person I've heard or read that doubts that Landry didn't have complete and total control of the team. And it wouldn't have made any difference if there were cell phones or instant communications back then or not. The overall culture in society back then was different. Also there was a no nonsense commissioner Pete Rozelle who would have taken action if players back then did what players do today off the field. If you get 99 other people that followed coach Landry and asked if he would ever deliberately tank, you would be the only one that would think that which proves that you really don't know the man and Coach Tom Landry. You may have tanking losing mentality, but Landry never did.
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Harvey Martin used to beat his wife regularly. Landry knew about it because the police were called and they covered it up. Hollywood Henderson was a cokehead the team knew it and covered it up.

All the while in the public eye the Cowboys were a bunch of choir boys that were held up as an example to everyone of good behavior and winning with honor.

I never said anything about Landry's level of control. in fact in order to be able to systemically cover things up in that manner he had to have had control over not just the team itself but the things around the team.

Again in today's day and age somebody would have taken a video of Henderson at a party or the police being called to Martin's house and his wife leaving to the hospital.

additionally it was a different era and players could not leave and free agency like they can now. Plan b free agency wasn't even in the picture when Landry was winning super bowls.

He didn't need to tank. Ultimately though in practice Landry was willing to forgo the ideals that he publicly espoused as evidenced by him keeping Henderson and Martin around while putting up a veneer of choir boys.

If he thought the tanking would result in winds overall then there is good reason to think that he might take advantage of that we will never know because he was never put in that position.

Motorola said:

Please jazzcat - research your CZ postings and repost that "prediction"

2017 season___ Browns 0-16, Cowboys 9-7
2018 Season___Browns 7-8-1, Cowboys 10-6, NFC East Champions, Wildcard round winner, division round game
2019 season___Brown's 6-10, Cowboys 8-8

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2020 Browns 11-5 ... Cowboys 6-10.

but here we are sitting and watching while the Browns play in a divisional playoff game.
I still stand by that, sort of, I said it then but did not give it a time frame.
However in 2018 I also said, well maybe I was wrong, and glad so. However here we are. So don’t cherry pick those 3 seasons, you did not include this season why?

AmariChill said:

we need to do the same then. We haven’t had success as good as theirs in years

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If by years you mean two years, I agree. What success has Cleveland had? They barely got in as a wildcard (thanks to Buffalo) and won a wildcard game. Next week KC will teach them more about success.

Blitzen said:

Cleveland succeeded in getting to the playoffs by being winning winners. They beat the Pittsburgh Steelers today because of a constant winning environment. No teams can tank and transform into winners. It doesn't happen because of what it does in the locker room (like a losing character infection). Most great teams start by being champions and then just continuing being awesome. Winning begets winning. Losing begets losing. Here endeth the lesson to anyone saying that losing can equal wins in the future.

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Hilarious. The Browns won because they had the better team. Talent begets winning. Pitt won 11 in a row, what did that do for them? Pitt has dominated the series over the last 40 years, what did that do for them?

Pitt's defense was a shadow of itself because of some major injuries. Ben was beat up and James Connor is always beat up by this time of year.

jazzcat22 said:

2020 Browns 11-5 ... Cowboys 6-10.

but here we are sitting and watching while the Browns play in a divisional playoff game.
I still stand by that, sort of, I said it then but did not give it a time frame.
However in 2018 I also said, well maybe I was wrong, and glad so. However here we are. So don’t cherry pick those 3 seasons, you did not include this season why?

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Browns have REAL RB's with REAL talent that ACTUALLY makes big time plays. WE have the overpaid, fat, lazy, drunk, plodding Zeke.

And then the Browns actually have a quality defense. 4 turnovers, big plays.

Rockport said:

They won 3 of the last 4 games which is what the OP was talking about establishing a winning environment. Winning begets winning.

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Talent begets winning. Browns have been losers forever until they finally starting hitting their draft picks.

JoeKing said:

You lie. The Browns were tankers for years and now it has transformed them into a winner.

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Browns didnt tank they just sucked. They finally actually drafted intelligently and used the high picks properly.

Blitzen said:

Cleveland succeeded in getting to the playoffs by being winning winners. They beat the Pittsburgh Steelers today because of a constant winning environment. No teams can tank and transform into winners. It doesn't happen because of what it does in the locker room (like a losing character infection). Most great teams start by being champions and then just continuing being awesome. Winning begets winning. Losing begets losing. Here endeth the lesson to anyone saying that losing can equal wins in the future.

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Wait, Cleveland has tanked for a decade. At some point they have to win, look at all their high draft picks.

Carter said:

Since 2014 Browns had these Draft Picks:

2014 2x 1st Round (Pick 8 and 22)
2015 2x 1st Round (Pick 15 and 19)
2016 2x 1st Round (Pick 15 and 32)
2017 3x 1st Round (Picks 1, 25, 29)
2018 2x 1st Round (Pick 1 and 4 aswell as Pick 33 and 35)
2020 1x 1st Round (Pick 10)

So in the last 6 years they had 12 First Round Picks including 8 Top 20 Picks. Twice the 1st Overall. 3 Picks in the Top 10 and that doesnt include a ton of early 2nd Round Picks.

They just built smartly through the Draft, hired good Coaches and got Lucky with Some Picks.

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They did build through the draft, but after looking at their draft picks over the years, they should have been a lot better, a lot sooner IMO. With picks like these, they should be the next NFL dynasty.

FiveSuperBowls said:

Wait, Cleveland has tanked for a decade. At some point they have to win, look at all their high draft picks.

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The Browns have proved that they could maintain a losing team for a long time though. It is hard to lose that much for that long.

gjkoeppen said:

You're the first person I've heard or read that doubts that Landry didn't have complete and total control of the team. And it wouldn't have made any difference if there were cell phones or instant communications back then or not. The overall culture in society back then was different. Also there was a no nonsense commissioner Pete Rozelle who would have taken action if players back then did what players do today off the field. If you get 99 other people that followed coach Landry and asked if he would ever deliberately tank, you would be the only one that would think that which proves that you really don't know the man and Coach Tom Landry. You may have tanking losing mentality, but Landry never did.
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BS. They covered it up.

Blitzen said:

Cleveland succeeded in getting to the playoffs by being winning winners. They beat the Pittsburgh Steelers today because of a constant winning environment. No teams can tank and transform into winners. It doesn't happen because of what it does in the locker room (like a losing character infection). Most great teams start by being champions and then just continuing being awesome. Winning begets winning. Losing begets losing. Here endeth the lesson to anyone saying that losing can equal wins in the future.

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Oh, yeah, reindeer boy? Well, let the team follow your lead and we'll just wait another quarter century.

Blitzen said:

Are you telling me that winning is more complex than just having a winning environment? You mean drafting high in the rounds can sometimes lead to drafting major impactful players that lead to success???????????????????? I'm floored!

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Oh, you mean start winning? Great, let me send a memo to our team ... Deer (heh) team, start winning!
Done!

jnday said:

They did build through the draft, but after looking at their draft picks over the years, they should have been a lot better, a lot sooner IMO. With picks like these, they should be the next NFL dynasty.

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They have made a pile of mistakes. Can you imagine if they'd taken Bradley Chubb instead of Denzel Ward? He and Miles would form a duo comparable to Bosa Ingram. Maybe better.

kskboys said:

BS. They covered it up.

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Ya right and there were not just 1 but 2 gunmen in the grassy knoll. You nor anyone else has any verifiable proof of that outrageous claim. If that were true someone would have leaked it out just to cash in on the story and all the movies and documentaries that would have followed that never were. The historians would have said the public thinks Landry had control of the team but really Tex Schramm and Gil Brandt covered up the fact he didn't. Funny, not ha ha funny, the historians don't say that, they say what a strong no nonsense leader he was.
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