Here is a good write-up on Seattle's Cover 3

SlammedZero · Jan 12, 2021

SackMaster said:
While I don't disagree with you, Seattle was able to build a Super Bowl winning D without too much "high value" investment in it:

Draft:

1st Round = Earl Thomas, Bruce Irvin
2nd Round = Bobby Wagner
3rd Round = Cliff Avril, Brandon Mebane
4th Round = Red Bryant, KJ Wright, Walter Thurmond
5th Round = Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman
6th Round = Byron Maxwell
UDFA = Michael Bennett

Trades:

Chris Clemons (and a 4th) for Darryl Trapp (who was a 2nd Round pick by Seattle)

Free Agents:

Tony McDaniel - FA on a 1 year deal (was an UDFA Rookie for his 1st Team)

So you are looking at a LOT of 3rd Day picks on that Defense, with 4 of the 5 "starting" DBs being picked in the 4th, 5th and 6th Rounds.
This is what can happen when coaches / front office people don't get so darn attached to their "pet cats" on draft day.

JMHO

Damn! That was a fantastic draft for them.

Playmaker3128 · Jan 12, 2021

I think turnovers are key. If you can give this offense extra possessions we’ll win a lot of games. We need more playmakers.

I think you have two in diggs and Wilson in the secondary. LB we have to hope the scheme revived LVE or jaylon.... and our pass rush on the edges is getting better. We need a guy that can push the pocket up the middle. Would be huge.

I have no problems building up the cover 3. if we’re middle of the road next year but a high turnover d I’ll take it. Two years ago when we ran Richards cover 3 we had A shutdown cb in Byron but no real playmakers.

HungryLion · Jan 12, 2021

Future said:
The Cowboys were third in 3rd down conversion percentage allowed last year...

True. The issue was most offenses were getting their firsts in just 2 downs. :laugh:

Denim Chicken · Jan 12, 2021

jterrell said:
ee Ohio State last night and they just didn't.
Matching up Devonta Smith with LBs was hilarious. Sark is the devil for that.

I mean, that's one of the weaknesses of the Cover 3. The slot WR goes vert and you're going to have LVE carrying him deep?

ABQCOWBOY · Jan 12, 2021

Cover 3 is not vulnerable to the short pass, per say. It should really be stronger against it because you are bringing your SS down into the box or bleeding him out to help in coverage short. Typically, you also have smaller, quicker LBs that can cover. The problem with Cover 3, in coverage is the FS on a 4 go pattern. In that situation, the FS has to choose and the other guy is open so it's a real problem in Cover 3, if you don't get home. This, along with the fact that your LBs are usually smaller, make it a real priority to have bigger Lineman. They have to cover up the LBs so that they can run free to the ball because they aren't going to stack and shed. It's what we have all pulled our hair out over for the last several seasons. We actually have LBs who might thrive in this scheme but we do not have the DLs to make this work and smaller DEs may not help a lot.

Denim Chicken · Jan 12, 2021

ABQCOWBOY said:
Cover 3 is not vulnerable to the short pass, per say. It should really be stronger against it because you are bringing your SS down into the box or bleeding him out to help in coverage short. Typically, you also have smaller, quicker LBs that can cover. The problem with Cover 3, in coverage is the FS on a 4 go pattern. In that situation, the FS has to choose and the other guy is open so it's a real problem in Cover 3, if you don't get home. This, along with the fact that your LBs are usually smaller, make it a real priority to have bigger Lineman. They have to cover up the LBs so that they can run free to the ball because they aren't going to stack and shed. It's what we have all pulled our hair out over for the last several seasons. We actually have LBs who might thrive in this scheme but we do not have the DLs to make this work and smaller DEs may not help a lot.

I think Lawrence is perfect for SSDE in this scheme and Gregory will be great at LEO (especially when lined up wide). DE is really the last of my worry.

ABQCOWBOY · Jan 12, 2021

Denim Chicken said:
I mean, that's one of the weaknesses of the Cover 3. The slot WR goes vert and you're going to have LVE carrying him deep?

Good call, was just posting something on this. If you have a Back who can get deep, he crushes Cover 3 because he's already at top speed before the LB can even get him checked. The LB, 8 times out of 10 gets burned badly on this route. You put that RB in motion and he goes vertical and the LB is done. The only defense for the LB in this situation is to get a decent chuck on the back or receiver but if that guy is in motion along the OL and he breaks clean, which he usually will in that situation, it's bad news.

ABQCOWBOY · Jan 12, 2021

Denim Chicken said:
I think Lawrence is perfect for SSDE in this scheme and Gregory will be great at LEO (especially when lined up wide). DE is really the last of my worry.

He's not. First of all, he doesn't play enough snaps. Secondly, he better be real health because he's going to get doubled and trippled a lot. You don't lineup wide in that scheme. You have to cover up your LBs so the idea is to not create easy angles for OLs to get blocks on. Lastly, a lot of times, it's like playing DE in a 34. Lawrence isn't going to like just eating blocks. I think that could become a big problem. JMO

Denim Chicken · Jan 12, 2021

ABQCOWBOY said:
He's not. First of all, he doesn't play enough snaps. Secondly, he better be real health because he's going to get doubled and trippled a lot. You don't lineup wide in that scheme. You have to cover up your LBs so the idea is to not create easy angles for OLs to get blocks on. Lastly, a lot of times, it's like playing DE in a 34. Lawrence isn't going to like just eating blocks. I think that could become a big problem. JMO

I was talking about Gregory lining up wide on the weakside. Lawrence is solid maintaining his gaps, and while I agree he may need to take on some double teams, it becomes less of an issue of you upgrade your IDL which is imperative if we're going to make this thing work.

jterrell · Jan 12, 2021

Denim Chicken said:
I mean, that's one of the weaknesses of the Cover 3. The slot WR goes vert and you're going to have LVE carrying him deep?

Slot goes deep and I have a FS in the middle of the field who can get there or he's not gonna be int he NFL long.
Bama ate them up with slot crossing underneath and that was just LB speed issues and a refusal to go to a nickel.

Any cover you wanna use has issues. Cover 3 has less than 2.

If you have a legit pass rush deep stuff isn't that hard to deal with because you have a 20 yard cushion with that deep safety.

Flooded zones are far more an issues but they are for any zone scheme.

No reason not to go cover 1-4 like the Rams did this year. Cover 3 was still their highest usage scheme but they did plenty of 1,2 and quarters(4).

Bigdog · Jan 12, 2021

Cowboyny said:
I'm thinking more of a minor trade back.

ok. I would love to get Collins , Surtain/Farley, and Moehrig but it is not going to happen.

ABQCOWBOY · Jan 12, 2021

Denim Chicken said:
I was talking about Gregory lining up wide on the weakside. Lawrence is solid maintaining his gaps, and while I agree he may need to take on some double teams, it becomes less of an issue of you upgrade your IDL which is imperative if we're going to make this thing work.

I see. OK, same applies to Gregory. At this point, I don't really think we have one starter at either DT position.

unionjack8 · Jan 12, 2021

Three all pros in the secondary.

This will not work out well.....

Denim Chicken · Jan 12, 2021

ABQCOWBOY said:
I see. OK, same applies to Gregory. At this point, I don't really think we have one starter at either DT position.

Agree. And FS is going to be a big, big concern as well.

We need a solid staring 1T, 3T, & FS or I fear this defense is going to look a lot more like Atlanta than Seattle.

ABQCOWBOY · Jan 12, 2021

Denim Chicken said:
Agree. And FS is going to be a big, big concern as well.

We need a solid staring 1T, 3T, & FS or I fear this defense is going to look a lot more like Atlanta than Seattle.

You have to have an all world FS because what usually happens in a cover 3 is that you end up running a hybrid with man responsibilities for a single position. You match with the rest of the coverage. The advantage of Cover 3 is that you can move personnel around to take or protect any part of the field. You can take a teams strength away from them defensively, using cover 3 but teams can beat the cover 3, as I said, by using 4 vertical routes against it. This is why the Rosco and Louie or Rip and Liz were developed. This is terminology that basically stands for right or left in terms of lining up your defender/defenders. In this way, you try and scheme that vulnerability out of it by matching up with three DBs and using one defender to man up. But either way, you better have a safety that can get to the deepest quarters of the field, can play zone or man equally well and can both tackle and make plays on the ball. That guy has to be able to do it all.

eromeopolk · Jan 12, 2021

SackMaster said:
While I don't disagree with you, Seattle was able to build a Super Bowl winning D without too much "high value" investment in it:

Draft:

1st Round = Earl Thomas, Bruce Irvin
2nd Round = Bobby Wagner
3rd Round = Cliff Avril, Brandon Mebane
4th Round = Red Bryant, KJ Wright, Walter Thurmond
5th Round = Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman
6th Round = Byron Maxwell
UDFA = Michael Bennett

Trades:

Chris Clemons (and a 4th) for Darryl Trapp (who was a 2nd Round pick by Seattle)

Free Agents:

Tony McDaniel - FA on a 1 year deal (was an UDFA Rookie for his 1st Team)

So you are looking at a LOT of 3rd Day picks on that Defense, with 4 of the 5 "starting" DBs being picked in the 4th, 5th and 6th Rounds.
This is what can happen when coaches / front office people don't get so darn attached to their "pet cats" on draft day.

JMHO

Sounds like player development by coaches that can teach a system and develop a player in that system. And what coach developed Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman, Walter Thurmond, and Byron Maxwell?

The one Jerry Dumbo GM Jones fired and hired the big Blue M&M who hire Mike Nolan instead of keeping Kris Richard at DC.

ABQCOWBOY · Jan 12, 2021

eromeopolk said:
Sounds like player development by coaches that can teach a system and develop a player in that system. And what coach developed Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman, Walter Thurmond, and Byron Maxwell?

The one Jerry Dumbo GM Jones fired and hired the big Blue M&M who hire Mike Nolan instead of keeping Kris Richard at DC.

Well, I watched Earl Thomas at Texas. I don't really think there was much that needed to be developed there. JMO

CowboysFaninHouston · Jan 12, 2021

ABQCOWBOY said:
Well, Byron Jones would have fit this scheme pretty well IMO. It's a shame we couldn't figure out a way to resign him.

we could have, but didn't want to. instead we spent about the same amount of money on 4 players that never made it past mid season...that's bad evaluation, when you have people on the team that can perform better than FAs you signed.

Cowboyny · Jan 12, 2021

Bigdog said:
ok. I would love to get Collins , Surtain/Farley, and Moehrig but it is not going to happen.

It's possible to land two of those prospects as we have a top 10 pick in each rd.

SackMaster · Jan 12, 2021

SlammedZero said:
Damn! That was a fantastic draft for them.

Oh, sorry for not clarifying, but that wasn't a single draft. It was over multiple years, and as another poster pointed out, Cliff Avril was a Lions pick before signing with Seattle in free agency.

My main point was, you don't have to spend big in Free Agency or be high draft picks to have an "All-Pro" defense.

Here is a good write-up on Seattle's Cover 3

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